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talking about the rabid Pro Trumper you
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know the
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you know the poll of whites of the world
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Paula white I think firmly believes that
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he’s a Christian and and God is using
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him as a Christian to carry out you know
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the purposes of the gospel or the church
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in the world there’s others for example
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someone like Robert Jeffress from the
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pastor of the First Baptist Church in
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Dallas or even Franklin Graham the son
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of the evangelist Billy Clayton
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evangelist Billy Graham who would say
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sure Trump has his problem sure Trump is
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a sinner I don’t know if Trump has
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accepted Jesus as his Savior or not but
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God like Cyrus God uses imperfect people
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to carry out his plan so so they would
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say it really does you know they would
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say really doesn’t matter whether
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Trump’s a Christian or not he is faith
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friendly and God is using him in this
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kind of incredible way God uses sinners
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and God uses you know people who you
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know have these corrupt lives or immoral
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eyes to carry out his purposes God’s
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ways are not our ways would be the
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arguing and while we well we would think
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that it should be a godly Christian
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leader to help us sometimes God has
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other plans would be the idea here so so
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you get you got a kind of mixed mixed
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views on that depending on which pro
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Trump evangelical you talk to but you
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know and I minded I grew up hearing a
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lot of people who were evangelicals
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saying something those basically the
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reverse about Jimmy Carter were there
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where they would completely grant that
Jimmy Carter was was a you know and
devout then but even even argue that he
was a bad president because he was a
good Christian to be a good president
because he was done you know kick ass
and take names I guess I don’t know
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you’ve encountered during Carter Carter
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is interesting because evangelicals did
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flock to him in 1976 you know he might
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stop supporting that just ants they
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voted for Carter in 76 and 80
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I mean an aphid errol’s Ford
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seventy-six claimed to be some kind of
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an evangelical Christian too so that’s
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very interesting but the Carter was so
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kind of authentic right he he he talked
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about being born again
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even his even his uh even his statement
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about like being tempted to lust from
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you know from women you know was was it
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appealed to certain evangelicals right
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you know that this guy’s honest truly he
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meant they knew at length nobody and I
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think I think what happened was when
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Carter several things I mean one just
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you know you can’t count out the economy
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you know the recession and so forth also
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Carter just did not deliver on the
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things that evangelicals hoped he would
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we talked earlier about the green calmly
to Bob Jones case Jimmy Carter supported
to Bob the supreme court on that he
wanted to desegregate these academies
and this this you know there was
opposition that emerged almost
immediately to Carter when it didn’t
look like he would deliver on abortion
overturn roe v– wade you know try to
try to try to keep the keep the
segregation in place in these academies
so uh you know this is where Falwell and
others so many of you know the story
many our listeners will own story this
is where Falwell and others kind of say
no we thought this guy was was one you
know was going to help our moral cause
and he doesn’t seem to be doing it so uh
so yeah Carter’s a car is a fascinating
character I think it’s probably you know
it’s probably true to say the fact that
he tried to actually live out a kind of
authentic evangelicalism probably did uh
you know hurt his his presidency I mean
he has that famous 1979 malaise speech
in wrench you know he says we are a
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nation that is self-centered selfish we
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only care about each other we don’t
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think about the common good you know and
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then Reagan comes in and just says you
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know do whatever you want right
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individualism freedom right you know
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freedom of religion they love these
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kinds of things no I felt this message
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of self-discipline that Carter puts
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forth which you know is this
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authentically Christian message but you
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know that’s I think
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says a lot about the evangelical
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electorate as well I have one more
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question that you will wrap up but I I
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know you know there’s been debates in
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the Democratic Party about you know
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what’s the right calculus to to defeat
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Trump in 2020 and you know one sidebar
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in that debate is how much should they
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try and win over people who voted for
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Trump yeah yeah and a part of that is
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you know it is it worth trying to talk
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to some evangelicals to vote for Trump
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and to appeal to them you know appeal to
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their values there professor
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what do you think about that yeah yeah I
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mean I wrote a whole book about this so
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I hope yours I hope there’s a
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possibility but I see I see those
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eighty-one percent as as very you know
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there’s there’s diversity within that 81
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percent one of the things I worry about
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with this with the media is that they
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don’t see the diversity of 81 percent
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that 81 percent includes the rabid Trump
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supporters who are evangelicals the
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people who go to the rallies the people
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who supported this guy in the primaries
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when there were other options
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the GOP primaries the people who wear
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the manga hats you know I mean there’s a
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lot of Evangelicals you know I remember
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I remember when Trump came to Harrisburg
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Pennsylvania I’m watching the news
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coverage on it at night you know local
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news coverage and you know I see like
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four or five people from my church in
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line my evangelical church in line right
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so there’s that group what I found after
doing close to 20 or 30 book talks and
and I’m on the road a lot with this book
is that many of those people are just
not going to be convinced by kind of
rational arguments you know politics is
often so much emotional and and and it’s
just gonna be hard to convince those
people however there’s a large large
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number and I don’t know what the
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percentage is but but I also find
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there’s a large number who just don’t
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like Donald Trump they wish
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they didn’t have to vote for him they
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hated Hillary Clinton even more they
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were they they kind of walked the line
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between not voting for the president and
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voting for Trump right or voting for a
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third party candidate and voting for
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Trump and they decided that they were
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going to vote for Trump it’s those kind
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of people that I hope my book is going
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to reach you know and get them to sort
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of rethink you know especially in light
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of everything that’s happened since
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Trump’s been elected all of the kind of
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misogyny and racist Arbenz a comet if
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charlottesville he has an awful
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immigration policy and so forth on the
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other hand you can’t count out the
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economy right the economy is doing
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really really well a lot of youth
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angelica’s may not vote on moral issues
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they may vote on economic issues in 2020
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but when you think about it this way
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right you don’t need too many
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evangelicals to have their minds changed
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for for for a Democrat to win in 2020 I
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mean Hillary won by three million votes
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the popular vote so so you know in
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places like Pennsylvania which you know
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where we saw in the 2018 midterms we saw
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mostly Democratic candidates being
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elected governor senator the the conquer
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Congress seats almost all many of them
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flipped to Democrat you know place like
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Michigan and Wisconsin you don’t need
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too many votes to turn those states back
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towards a Democratic candidate so I’m
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not you know I’m kind of you know a lot
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of people are saying well if the
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economy’s good Trump’s gonna win again
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I’m not entirely convinced about that at
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least if you can turn some evangelicals
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you know you might you might have a
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chance to knock him off in 2020 well
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here’s here’s a question then if if the
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Democrats have a nominee who is more
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likable than Hillary Clinton yeah do you
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think at least there’ll be sizeable you
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know statistically significant number
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vocals who will at
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perhaps not vote for the Democrat but
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feel like they don’t have to vote for
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Khurana
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yeah Hillary Clinton is a problem with
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the problem for white conservative
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evangelicals for two reasons one is one
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is one as she represents everything
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about sort of what white evangelicals
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see as progressivism right pretty
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pro-choice not doing much to defend
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Christian values religious liberty
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particularly marriage you know she’s big
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government and so forth any Democratic
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candidate that runs is going to have
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those same problems with white
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evangelicals unless it’s like a pro-life
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democrat right that’s like Bob Casey
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from Pennsylvania runs who completely
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who evangelicals backed over Rick
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Santorum right and then drove Rick
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Santorum out this is my home state so I
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know these races pretty well the other
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problem the other problem white
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evangelicals had with Hillary Clinton
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was that she was Hillary Clinton you
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know the baggage going back to the bill
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scandals with Monica Lewinsky going back
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to the lying the you know she’s saying
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right-wing conspiracy and blah blah blah
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the deplorable slide you know nobody
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Clinton made a lot of mistakes among
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white evangelicals I don’t think I don’t
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think if she corrected those mistakes
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she would have won over many white
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evangelicals to her side but she may
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have turned some white evangelicals away
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from Donald Trump towards a third party
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candidate or towards just not voting in
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the presidential election so you know
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we’ll see what happens you could have a
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Democrat who and if it’s a traditional
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Democrat on the moral questions that
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Emma Jellico’s hold dear in 2020 I just
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I think I think they’re still gonna
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they’re not gonna vote for that Democrat
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but because it’s not Hillary Clinton
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they may say well we could put up with
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this guy or this one as opposed to you
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know their four years of Trump I heard
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something you said this but someone
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compared Hillary Clinton’s sort of
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relationship as a cultural icon to the
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women’s rights movement to Jesse
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Jackson’s relationship to the civil
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and the argument was that in the same
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way that Jesse Jackson couldn’t become
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president because of just all the
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baggage that comes with being part of
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that generation yeah someone from the
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second generation like Obama didn’t have
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that package
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yeah next woman right is the argument
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that I’ve heard from women’s rights
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movement but not be associated with all
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the baggage came with having to fight
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that fight yeah no no six or seven yeah
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yeah no it’s there’s probably some truth
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to that we’ll see you know I don’t know
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how many women candidates are out there
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you hear about come out Kamala Harris
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Kristin Gillibrand I mean you know we’ll
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see what happens I’m not sure well I I
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forgot to mention the start but I will
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plug you are you run a great blog that’s
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also the title of your first book and
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the title of your podcast which is right
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the way of improvement leads home which
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what’s the URL is it way of improvement
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way of improvement calm way of
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improvement calm or no that’s instead
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Zealand yes I encourage people check out
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your blog your podcast and you tweet at
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John fear one john thea one yep jo hn f
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EI one yeah and i tweet at william are
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black and in your book believe me the
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evangelical road to Donald Trump would
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be a good stocking stuffer when you have
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those conversations at Christmas right I
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did a promo for the book on I tweeted I
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said you just got done with these
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conversations over Thanks
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giving with your pro-trump evangelical
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friends and you wish you had some more
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arguments for when Christmas or the
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December holidays come around right get
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this book you have a month to read it in
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preparation for Christmas dinner or
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whatever it might be well thanks for
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coming on I love to have you on again
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sometime and great thanks for having me
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bill thank you