<iframe width=”560″ height=”315″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/HLMhoLHYzIA” frameborder=”0″ allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture” allowfullscreen></iframe>talking about the rabid Pro Trumper you48:34know the48:35you know the poll of whites of the world48:38Paula white I think firmly believes that48:40he’s a Christian and and God is using48:42him as a Christian to carry out you know48:46the purposes of the gospel or the church48:49in the world there’s others for example48:51someone like Robert Jeffress from the48:55pastor of the First Baptist Church in48:56Dallas or even Franklin Graham the son49:00of the evangelist Billy Clayton49:02evangelist Billy Graham who would say49:04sure Trump has his problem sure Trump is49:06a sinner I don’t know if Trump has49:08accepted Jesus as his Savior or not but49:12God like Cyrus God uses imperfect people49:17to carry out his plan so so they would49:22say it really does you know they would49:23say really doesn’t matter whether49:25Trump’s a Christian or not he is faith49:28friendly and God is using him in this49:31kind of incredible way God uses sinners49:34and God uses you know people who you49:39know have these corrupt lives or immoral49:41eyes to carry out his purposes God’s49:43ways are not our ways would be the49:45arguing and while we well we would think49:48that it should be a godly Christian49:50leader to help us sometimes God has49:52other plans would be the idea here so so49:55you get you got a kind of mixed mixed49:58views on that depending on which pro50:00Trump evangelical you talk to but you50:04know and I minded I grew up hearing a50:06lot of people who were evangelicals50:08saying something those basically the50:10reverse about Jimmy Carter were there50:13where they would completely grant thatJimmy Carter was was a you know anddevout then but even even argue that hewas a bad president because he was agood Christian to be a good presidentbecause he was done you know kick assand take names I guess I don’t know50:31you’ve encountered during Carter Carter50:34is interesting because evangelicals did50:36flock to him in 1976 you know he might50:40stop supporting that just ants they50:42voted for Carter in 76 and 8050:45I mean an aphid errol’s Ford50:49seventy-six claimed to be some kind of50:51an evangelical Christian too so that’s50:52very interesting but the Carter was so50:54kind of authentic right he he he talked50:57about being born again50:59even his even his uh even his statement51:02about like being tempted to lust from51:04you know from women you know was was it51:09appealed to certain evangelicals right51:11you know that this guy’s honest truly he51:13meant they knew at length nobody and I51:16think I think what happened was when51:19Carter several things I mean one just51:22you know you can’t count out the economy51:24you know the recession and so forth also51:27Carter just did not deliver on the51:29things that evangelicals hoped he would51:32we talked earlier about the green calmlyto Bob Jones case Jimmy Carter supportedto Bob the supreme court on that hewanted to desegregate these academiesand this this you know there wasopposition that emerged almostimmediately to Carter when it didn’tlook like he would deliver on abortionoverturn roe v– wade you know try totry to try to keep the keep thesegregation in place in these academiesso uh you know this is where Falwell andothers so many of you know the storymany our listeners will own story thisis where Falwell and others kind of sayno we thought this guy was was one youknow was going to help our moral causeand he doesn’t seem to be doing it so uhso yeah Carter’s a car is a fascinatingcharacter I think it’s probably you knowit’s probably true to say the fact thathe tried to actually live out a kind ofauthentic evangelicalism probably did uhyou know hurt his his presidency I meanhe has that famous 1979 malaise speechin wrench you know he says we are a52:36nation that is self-centered selfish we52:40only care about each other we don’t52:41think about the common good you know and52:43then Reagan comes in and just says you52:45know do whatever you want right52:47individualism freedom right you know52:50freedom of religion they love these52:52kinds of things no I felt this message52:55of self-discipline that Carter puts52:57forth which you know is this52:59authentically Christian message but you53:01know that’s I think53:02says a lot about the evangelical53:04electorate as well I have one more53:07question that you will wrap up but I I53:12know you know there’s been debates in53:15the Democratic Party about you know53:17what’s the right calculus to to defeat53:21Trump in 2020 and you know one sidebar53:27in that debate is how much should they53:30try and win over people who voted for53:33Trump yeah yeah and a part of that is53:38you know it is it worth trying to talk53:41to some evangelicals to vote for Trump53:43and to appeal to them you know appeal to53:49their values there professor53:52what do you think about that yeah yeah I53:55mean I wrote a whole book about this so53:57I hope yours I hope there’s a53:59possibility but I see I see those54:01eighty-one percent as as very you know54:03there’s there’s diversity within that 8154:05percent one of the things I worry about54:07with this with the media is that they54:09don’t see the diversity of 81 percent54:12that 81 percent includes the rabid Trump54:16supporters who are evangelicals the54:18people who go to the rallies the people54:20who supported this guy in the primaries54:22when there were other options54:24the GOP primaries the people who wear54:26the manga hats you know I mean there’s a54:29lot of Evangelicals you know I remember54:30I remember when Trump came to Harrisburg54:33Pennsylvania I’m watching the news54:36coverage on it at night you know local54:37news coverage and you know I see like54:40four or five people from my church in54:42line my evangelical church in line right54:45so there’s that group what I found afterdoing close to 20 or 30 book talks andand I’m on the road a lot with this bookis that many of those people are justnot going to be convinced by kind ofrational arguments you know politics isoften so much emotional and and and it’sjust gonna be hard to convince thosepeople however there’s a large large55:10number and I don’t know what the55:11percentage is but but I also find55:13there’s a large number who just don’t55:14like Donald Trump they wish55:16they didn’t have to vote for him they55:18hated Hillary Clinton even more they55:22were they they kind of walked the line55:24between not voting for the president and55:26voting for Trump right or voting for a55:30third party candidate and voting for55:33Trump and they decided that they were55:34going to vote for Trump it’s those kind55:36of people that I hope my book is going55:38to reach you know and get them to sort55:42of rethink you know especially in light55:44of everything that’s happened since55:46Trump’s been elected all of the kind of55:49misogyny and racist Arbenz a comet if55:53charlottesville he has an awful55:54immigration policy and so forth on the55:57other hand you can’t count out the56:00economy right the economy is doing56:02really really well a lot of youth56:03angelica’s may not vote on moral issues56:06they may vote on economic issues in 202056:08but when you think about it this way56:10right you don’t need too many56:11evangelicals to have their minds changed56:14for for for a Democrat to win in 2020 I56:19mean Hillary won by three million votes56:22the popular vote so so you know in56:26places like Pennsylvania which you know56:29where we saw in the 2018 midterms we saw56:33mostly Democratic candidates being56:35elected governor senator the the conquer56:40Congress seats almost all many of them56:42flipped to Democrat you know place like56:46Michigan and Wisconsin you don’t need56:48too many votes to turn those states back56:50towards a Democratic candidate so I’m56:52not you know I’m kind of you know a lot56:56of people are saying well if the56:57economy’s good Trump’s gonna win again56:59I’m not entirely convinced about that at57:02least if you can turn some evangelicals57:04you know you might you might have a57:06chance to knock him off in 2020 well57:09here’s here’s a question then if if the57:14Democrats have a nominee who is more57:17likable than Hillary Clinton yeah do you57:20think at least there’ll be sizeable you57:23know statistically significant number57:26vocals who will at57:28perhaps not vote for the Democrat but57:30feel like they don’t have to vote for57:32Khurana57:32yeah Hillary Clinton is a problem with57:35the problem for white conservative57:36evangelicals for two reasons one is one57:40is one as she represents everything57:42about sort of what white evangelicals57:45see as progressivism right pretty57:47pro-choice not doing much to defend57:50Christian values religious liberty57:52particularly marriage you know she’s big57:56government and so forth any Democratic57:58candidate that runs is going to have58:00those same problems with white58:01evangelicals unless it’s like a pro-life58:05democrat right that’s like Bob Casey58:07from Pennsylvania runs who completely58:10who evangelicals backed over Rick58:12Santorum right and then drove Rick58:14Santorum out this is my home state so I58:16know these races pretty well the other58:20problem the other problem white58:21evangelicals had with Hillary Clinton58:22was that she was Hillary Clinton you58:24know the baggage going back to the bill58:27scandals with Monica Lewinsky going back58:30to the lying the you know she’s saying58:33right-wing conspiracy and blah blah blah58:36the deplorable slide you know nobody58:39Clinton made a lot of mistakes among58:41white evangelicals I don’t think I don’t58:43think if she corrected those mistakes58:45she would have won over many white58:46evangelicals to her side but she may58:48have turned some white evangelicals away58:51from Donald Trump towards a third party58:53candidate or towards just not voting in58:56the presidential election so you know58:59we’ll see what happens you could have a59:01Democrat who and if it’s a traditional59:05Democrat on the moral questions that59:07Emma Jellico’s hold dear in 2020 I just59:11I think I think they’re still gonna59:14they’re not gonna vote for that Democrat59:16but because it’s not Hillary Clinton59:18they may say well we could put up with59:19this guy or this one as opposed to you59:23know their four years of Trump I heard59:26something you said this but someone59:29compared Hillary Clinton’s sort of59:33relationship as a cultural icon to the59:37women’s rights movement to Jesse59:39Jackson’s relationship to the civil59:41and the argument was that in the same59:47way that Jesse Jackson couldn’t become59:50president because of just all the59:53baggage that comes with being part of59:54that generation yeah someone from the59:59second generation like Obama didn’t have60:01that package60:02yeah next woman right is the argument60:07that I’ve heard from women’s rights60:11movement but not be associated with all60:14the baggage came with having to fight60:16that fight yeah no no six or seven yeah60:19yeah no it’s there’s probably some truth60:21to that we’ll see you know I don’t know60:24how many women candidates are out there60:25you hear about come out Kamala Harris60:28Kristin Gillibrand I mean you know we’ll60:32see what happens I’m not sure well I I60:37forgot to mention the start but I will60:39plug you are you run a great blog that’s60:43also the title of your first book and60:46the title of your podcast which is right60:48the way of improvement leads home which60:53what’s the URL is it way of improvement60:56way of improvement calm way of60:59improvement calm or no that’s instead61:06Zealand yes I encourage people check out61:17your blog your podcast and you tweet at61:22John fear one john thea one yep jo hn f61:28EI one yeah and i tweet at william are61:35black and in your book believe me the61:39evangelical road to Donald Trump would61:42be a good stocking stuffer when you have61:47those conversations at Christmas right I61:49did a promo for the book on I tweeted I61:52said you just got done with these61:53conversations over Thanks61:55giving with your pro-trump evangelical61:57friends and you wish you had some more61:58arguments for when Christmas or the62:00December holidays come around right get62:03this book you have a month to read it in62:05preparation for Christmas dinner or62:07whatever it might be well thanks for62:12coming on I love to have you on again62:14sometime and great thanks for having me62:17bill thank you
–Frank Schaeffer, writer, former Evangelical Christian, and author of Why I Am an Atheist Who Believes in God, joins David to discuss his past within his parents Evangelical community and his separation from Christianity
“Conservative evangelical Christians in the United States are President Donald Trump’s most staunch supporters, despite the fact that the president is a serial adulterer who has been accused by multiple women of sexual assault and who regularly deploys racist attacks on political opponents. A Washington Post profile of Trump-loving evangelicals shows that many of them felt they were under assault by former President Barack Obama — and one of them pointed to the Obama White House lighting up in rainbow colors in 2015 to celebrate the Supreme Court’s ruling legalizing LGBT marriage.”*
Numbers 5:23-27 (abortion)
The writer Ben Howe grew up in the world of conservative evangelicalism. When he looks at the religious right now, all he sees is a thirst for power and domination.
Ben Howe is angry at evangelicals. As he describes it, he is angry that they didn’t just vote for Donald Trump in record numbers, but repeatedly provide moral cover for his outrageous failings. He is angry that leaders of the religious right, who long claimed to be the champions of American morality, appear to have gladly traded their values for power. He is angry that Christians claim they support the president because they want to end abortion or protect religious liberty, when supporting Trump suggests that what they really want is a champion who will mock and crush their perceived enemies.