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BW: Can you isolate a moment when it kicked to yes?

DT: Well, I’ll tell you a moment.

BW: Because that’s what Bob and I are looking for.

DT: I’ll tell you a moment when it kicked to yes. Because it was a monetary moment also. So you saw that it made a lot of money because it was certified. Now it’s much more, because I also have a big chunk of the show. We chose Arnold Schwarzenegger to take my place. Okay? And hopefully Arnold will do well; who knows?

.. So it was a terrible deal. It was a terrible negotiation. It was negotiated by people that are poor negotiators against great negotiators. Persians being great negotiators, okay? It’s one of those things. You might be Persian. But the Iranians, frankly, are great negotiators.

.. BW: Did anyone say, “Dad, Donald, don’t do it?”

DT: I think my wife would much have preferred that I didn’t do it. She’s a very private person. She was a very, very successful — very, very successful model. She made a tremendous amount of money and had great success and dealt at the . . .  .

BW: What’d she say?

DT: She was, she said, we have such a great life. “Why do you want to do this?” She was . . .  .

BW: And what’d you say?

DT: I said, “I sort of have to do it, I think. I really have to do it.” Because it’s something I’d be — I could do such a great job. I really wanted to give something back.

.. BW: And at the end, the day he resigned, an amazing day, he gives that speech which is kind of free association about mom and dad.

.. BW: Do you take any lessons from that? Because what did is he converted the presidency to an instrument of personal revenge.

DT:    Yeah.

BW: You’re my enemy, I’m going to get you. I’m going to get so-and-so on you.

DT:  Yeah. No, I don’t. I don’t see that. What I do see is — what I am amazed at is, I’m somebody that gets along with people. And sometimes I’ll notice, I’ll be, I have the biggest crowds.

.. You know, when you have a room of 2,000 people, you can pretty much keep it without the protesters. When you have 21 or 25,000 people coming in, people can start standing up and screaming.

.. You think there’s a lot of animus toward yourself. How do you expand your reach, your appeal, right now?

DT: Well, let me tell you the biggest problem that I have. And I talk about it a lot. I get a very unfair press. I’m somebody that’s a person that understands when I say — when I say, I say what I say. But I really do get a very, very unfair press.

.. RC:  But what are some concrete steps you could take right now to project a bigger presence, a more unifying presence? Regardless of your view of the press, which is noted. How do you take steps now to really become a nominee?

DT:  Well, I think — it’s a great question, and it’s a question I’ve thought about a lot. I mean, I think the first thing I have to do is win. Winning solves a lot of problems.

.. And one of the problems I have is that when I hit people, I hit them harder maybe than is necessary. And it’s almost impossible to reel them back.

.. Cruz is interesting. We got along very well.

BW: Initially?

DT:  I would make provocative statements, and he would say, “I agree with Mr. Trump.”

.. RC: Maybe I’m mishearing you, but I feel like you’re almost comfortable being the Lone Ranger.

DT: I am. Because I understand life. And I understand how life works. I’m the Lone Ranger.

..

BW: But can you be president and be Lone Ranger?

DT: Um . . .  .

BW: I mean, as we were talking about Lincoln – if we may.

DT:    Yeah.

BW: Lincoln’s second inaugural, he’s won the war, he has broken more eggs than any president ever.

DT: He broke a lot of eggs.

BW: And he comes out and in his second inaugural he said, “Malice toward none, charity for all, bind up the nation’s wounds.”

DT: Right.

BW: Other words, he’s saying, let’s go back and coalition-build between the North and the South. Isn’t that a moment you’re going to have to face?

.. BW: And you have to tame that rage, don’t you?

DT: Yes, yes, but I bring that out in people. I do. I’m not saying that’s an asset or a liability, but I do bring that out.

BW: You bring what out?

DT: I bring rage out. I do bring rage out. I always have. I think it was . . .  . I don’t know if that’s an asset or a liability, but whatever it is, I do. I also bring great unity out, ultimately.

.. RC: But I’m just struck by — we’re asking the questions about being presidential. So many other people have asked, can Trump pivot, can he shift to a different kind of tone? And correct me if I’m wrong, but my view, listening to you, is you actually don’t really have that much interest in changing too much.

DT: Not yet. Not yet.

RC: But it seems your natural inclination is to fight . . .  .

DT:    No.

RC:    No?

DT:  My — yes, always to fight. My natural inclination is to win. And after I win, I will be so presidential that you won’t even recognize me. You’ll be falling asleep, you’ll be so bored.

.. DT:  My — yes, always to fight. My natural inclination is to win. And after I win, I will be so presidential that you won’t even recognize me. You’ll be falling asleep, you’ll be so bored.

BW: Really. But when Ted Cruz said what he said, and then you said, I don’t need his support.

DT: I don’t need his support. I don’t believe I need it.

.. RC: Our big picture is how Reagan in 1980 competed against George H. W. Bush in the primary, then put him on the ticket.

DT: Yeah, and got along. And truly disliked each other.

RC: And put him on the ticket.

DT: Yeah.

RC: Considers him to be part of the team, team of rivals. Could you have a team of rivals in a general election?

.. DT:  Somebody that can walk into the Senate and who’s been friendly with these guys for 25 years, and people for 25 years. And can get things done. So I would 95 percent see myself picking a political person as opposed to somebody from the outside.

.. RC: No, it says a lot that — you are acknowledging that you don’t want to have another outsider as part of your team.

DT: Yeah.

RC: You need an insider.

.. RC:  And one thing I always wondered, are you going to make employees of the federal government sign nondisclosure agreements?

DT:  I think they should. You know, when somebody — and I see it all the time. . . .  And I don’t know, there could be some kind of a law that you can’t do this. But when people are chosen by a man to go into government at high levels and then they leave government and they write a book about a man and say a lot of things that were really guarded and personal, I don’t like that. I mean, I’ll be honest. And people would say, oh, that’s terrible, you’re taking away his right to free speech. Well, he’s going in. . . .  I would say . . . I do have nondisclosure deals. That’s why you don’t read that. . . .

BW: With everyone? Corey has one, Hope has one.

.. DT: But, so I think I can do a terrific job. And I think this: if I’m doing a terrific job, and if I’m feeling well, I would say I would continue to go for the extra four years. Because again, I don’t want to put that burden on myself. If I’m doing a good job, I should be allowed.

.. DT:  Yeah, I don’t care about the. . . .  I know the Wall Street people. I know the Wall Street people probably better than anybody knows them. You know, the Wall Street . . .  .

BW: You don’t need them either?

DT:  No. No. You know, I don’t need them. No, other candidates need them, by the way. Ted Cruz needs them. Ted Cruz borrowed millions of dollars for his [political-action committees].

.. I would do a tax cut. You have to do a tax cut. Because we’re the highest-taxed nation in the world.

.. RC: So renegotiate trade deals and have a tax cut. That would be your first 100 days?

DT: Renegotiate trade deals and renegotiate military deals.

.. DT: And by the way, and renegotiate with NATO. And renegotiate with Japan and with…

..

RC: But aren’t deals with countries and foreign leaders different than the kind of transactions you do at the corporate level? And how do you make that transition?

DT: No.

RC: Because you can’t say to a country, I’m going to sue you.

.. You look at what Mexico’s doing, Bob. Mexico is the new China, smaller level. Mexico, what they’re doing to us on trade and at the border is unbelievable.

.. I will give people back their dignity because I’m going to bring jobs back.

.. But I think I’m going to do great with the African Americans. I think I’m going to do great with Hispanics. I’m going to bring jobs back to the country. I’m not going to let people take our jobs.

..

BW: And he’s, President Obama’s having this summit now, right here in Washington, down the street. And he is a strong advocate for eliminating nuclear weapons entirely.

DT: Okay.

BW: Would you agree with that?

DT:  Well, if it’s done on equal basis, absolutely.

BW: You would.

.. RC:  So one of the quotes Obama said in there is, “The notion that Russia is somehow in a stronger position now in Syria and Ukraine than they were before they invaded Ukraine or before he had to deploy military forces in Syria is to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of power in foreign affairs. Real power means you can get what you want without having to exert violence.” That’s Obama on global power. Do you agree?

..

DT:  People have respected me. My life has been a life where I’ve been respected. I want them to respect our country. I want them to respect our leader. But I want them to respect our country. Now, you could use . . .  .

..

BW: How do you achieve that, sir?

DT:  Through the aura of personality. Through having the goods. You know, so Muhammad Ali is a friend of mine. He’s a good guy. I’ve watched many people over the years. Muhammad Ali would get in the ring and he’d talk and talk and scream and talk about the ugly bear, and this, that — you know. And then he’d win. And respect is about winning. We don’t win anymore. I see it in my — we don’t win anymore. And he’d win. I’ve seen many fighters that were better than Muhammad Ali, in terms of talking. I’ve seen guys that were so beautiful, so flamboyant, they’d get into the ring — and then they’d get knocked out. And guess what? It’s all gone. Let me just say: we don’t win anymore.

BW: So do you want Putin to be afraid of you?

DT:  I want Putin to respect our country, okay?

BW: And what would he respect?

DT:  Well, first of all, it’s sort of interesting. He said very good things about me.

BW: Understand.

DT:  You saw that. He said, Trump is brilliant and Trump is going to be the new leader and all that. And some of these clowns said, you should repudiate Putin. I said, why would I repudiate him? He’s not going to get anything. Because I’ve been through this stuff before. But he said very positive things about me. And I say to myself — and I say to people — wouldn’t it be nice if we actually could get along with Russia? And if we could get along with these people? China takes advantage of us. Look at what they’re doing in the South China Sea. They’re not supposed to be playing that game. Okay? Look at what they’re doing. That is a lack of respect. When they’re building a massive, like nobody’s ever seen before — they’re building islands in the middle of the South China Sea for a massive military complex. Beyond runways. I mean, this is a complex. So what I’m saying is there’s a tremendous lack of respect for our country. And I think for our leader.

BW: But what does Putin respect? The former KGB lieutenant colonel? Force. Power.

DT: I think he respects strength. Okay? I think Putin respects strength. And I’ve said it before, I think I will get along well with Putin. Now you never know. I don’t say that – only a fool would say, “I will,” but I feel that I will get along well with Putin. I feel that if we can get along with more countries, that’s a positive thing. That’s not a bad thing. Some people — for instance, when Putin came out and he wanted to bomb the hell out of ISIS, we had people standing on the stage, we don’t want that, we want. . . . Let me tell you something. If we have somebody else dropping bombs that cost a half a million dollars a piece on the top — if we have somebody helping us, that’s not so bad. You understand that. That’s not so bad.

..  And I said, wow. And I realized the only way Vince Lombardi got away with that was because he won. This was after he had won so much, okay? And when you have these coaches that are just as tough as him but they don’t win, there’s revolutions. Okay? Nobody. . . . But Vince Lombardi was able to win, and he got — I have never seen anything like it. It was such a vivid impression. You had this big powerful guy, and you had Vince Lombardi, and he grabbed him by the shirt and he was screaming at him, he was angry at him.

.. BW: By why, then? Is this ideology, is this partisanship, is it laziness? What is it?

DT: Well, it could be some laziness. Today they want the clicks. In the old days they wanted the ratings, or they wanted to sell newspapers. Today they see if somebody clicks. So they do a story on me and they get clicks all over the place. They do a story on somebody else, it doesn’t matter.

.. RC:  But you know what they tell us? We call the same people. Or I’ve been calling the same people. You know what they say about Trump? So much promise, political talent, yet he seems to have a blind spot. When he’s ahead, he seems to pull back. That’s maybe not the view you have, I understand. But that is how a lot of Washington people see it. They think you get so close to the nomination, and then things happen . . . .

.. DT: I should be calling them.

RC:  More.

DT: And I will be calling them. As soon as I feel that time is right.

RC:  And it goes back to the point about VP: you do acknowledge there is a limitation you have in this town, in this political place of Washington.

DT:  Sure, sure. I’ve been a very political person all my life.

RC:  Understood.

DT: I’ve been on the other side, but still I’ve been very political . . .  .

RC:  Different. Donor and a politician.

DT:  Well, I’ve gotten unbelievable political things done: zoning. This building. Bob, how did I get this building?

.. DT:  Don’t forget, I’ve been hit hard. I went in one of 17 and they hit me harder than anybody. And I hit back very hard. Harder than they hit me. Jeb: low energy. Little Marco. Names that were devastating. I think the low energy Jeb, all of a sudden you see him running down the street to try and show he’s got high energy. And it wasn’t him, and it became worse. I hit back very hard. I am telling you, almost all of these people that you would never think would ever – will want to come on board. But I’ve got to win first.