openpolitics.com

“Can I leave?”

“No”

“You’re loitering”

• This happens a lot especially when it’s a female officer being observed by a male officer. She has to show she can throw her authority around. And make citizens afraid of her.

 

• This was one of the more infuriating cop videos I’ve seen. The female cop obviously lied about seeing Adam smoking. She holds onto his ID, effectively detaining him, and then issues him a citation for trespassing. Where do you get nerve like this?

 

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>> He never should’ve handed over his ID.

• Boy, if this isn’t a police state, then what is? Thanks Adam.
• Stopped for allegedly smoking, detained for several minutes, then ticketed for loitering. Could this cop be any more dishonest and corrupt?
• They illegally detaine him to issue a loitering citation. What a bunch of crooks.
• This is one of the most BS tickets I’ve ever seen. I hope to God he fought it. Any reputable DA would toss this ticket after viewing the video. Of course, I’ve seen some pretty outrageous cases brought to court, so I emphasize the term “reputable”.
• It’s almost to the point where we need to walk around with our own body cameras. I don’t know how cops sleep at night when they treat people like this
• “the officer made a mistake” is what people will say to defend actions like this as “not a big deal”… bad cop defenders will never find this offensive until THEY are being accused of something they had not done… the cops were SO certain they were going to find something else, they lead with a lie that had to keep evolving from smoking, to loitering… without video evidence how do you beat the testimony of a “decorated officer with extensive training and knowledge”…
• Viewing from United Kingdom. This is appalling! She was determined to punish him for not bowing down to her. And the other officers were a party to this. I hope this gets enough publicity for her superiors to see and for her to be reprimanded! Disgraceful behaviour exhibited here, adding to the hatred of police
• I think the lady cop backed herself into a corner once she called for backup. After she called for backup, in order to “save face” with her coworkers looking on, she had to write a ticket for something. It remains to be seen if loitering would have been the citation until it was suggested by her fellow cop. Hope the fellow fought the ticket – especially the trespass one. These cops are wildly out of control and don’t appear to have an adequate working knowledge of the Utah “no smoking” law.
• “You’re not gonna tell me how to do my job.” Well someone has to because you have no idea what you’re doing.
• The problem here is the police have developed their policy around the grey areas of the law that give them authority. It is the reason there needs to be a totally separate organization.
  •  IMHO it’s bc people are way to quick to take a settlement. They can go all the way with this, making it it case law or reference to such. Terry v Ohio must be challenged, and have a standard for what is reasonable, bc these cops clearly aren’t reasonable people
  • I hadn’t thought of it that way but seems accurate. I think it’s also a combination of some officers that are just plain bored. She prob saw someone who looked out of place in “her” community and went on a fishing expedition cause he looked like someone who smoked and when that didn’t work she had to find something to justify her stop and jam him up for not being adequately deferential to her perceived authority. She’s prob also trying to climb the ladder and had a supervisor comment on her dearth of citations. It’s a system that rewards finding or even creating criminality rather than keeping peace. Department budgets and funding are based on amount of “crime” rather than creating a culture of mutual respect and lawfulness. They assume low crime rate means they’re not “finding” it. They need to justify their exorbitant budgets and military toys somehow. Yet if there is a spike in actual crime they have a press conference reassuring the public that it’s not really that bad because they keep the peace and exaggerate any small decrease in crime as solely due to their department. It’s a self-reinforcing cycle of judicial theater.
• when they sited him for trespassing, i would have asked them if uta had asked them to remove me for trespassing. the police don’t have the power to just trespass you, unless the property manager has asked them to remove you, that is not in their power to do.
  • They can and will convince someone at UTA to file a complaint.
  • @Mr. Security  that would be soliciting a trespass, and that is also illegal. I’m not saying they wouldn’t do it, but they’re not supposed to.
  • @Ryan Barry  they’ve done it before and since
  • That does depend on the state. I don’t agree with it, but it’s my understanding.
• Unscrupulous actions by officers like the ones in this video are an important reason why the public is continuing to lose respect for the police. Supervisors in law enforcement should take these incidents more seriously because of the negative impact they have in their communities.
• Any judge that allows contempt of cop tickets should be removed from the bench and disbarred. We the people don’t deserve this treatment from government.
• that was crazy. She lied about seeing him smoking. Then tickets him for loitering for the time he was staying there because she wouldn’t let him leave.
• How else can police departments get money? They have make up infractions when there aren’t crimes, otherwise there would be no need for them.
• “OK, so you weren’t committing any crime. No problem. We’ll just make something up.”
• Funny they told him he was being detained for loitering when they’re the one who’s keeping him here even if they don’t have any right too. It should be every cops knowledge that people have a right to remain silent so let us use it.
• He’s NOT loitering!!! THEY aren’t letting him leave!!
• There’s no such thing as a stop and ID law. Any ID law still requires a law to be broken to ID someone….
• You can’t be detained and loitering at the same time. He needs to fight the charge on principle.
• This is exactly why “stop and ID” laws are complete bs! Cops can make up any kind of excuse they want in order to get your ID so they can cite you. Because it’s their word against yours in court.
• Pig: “I saw you smoking. Give me your ID.” Innocent civilian: Hands them his ID, “But I don’t smoke.”
• Pig: “Now that I have your ID I’m gonna cite you for loitering instead and trespass you too, and it’s a class B misdemeanor if you don’t sign.”
• WTF OVER!?!? This guy needs to get a hold of the bus stop surveillance videos, haul that bitch into court, and sue the hell out of her and the state.
• this dudes mistake was ever giving up his ID. He should have demanded to be arrested.
• I saw this awhile back, and it’s just like all the officers you run into here in Utah especially UTA cops, they use the smoking cigarette thing here like other officers use the I smell weed on other states. Thanks so much for all your hard work and for the share 😊❤👍💯✌
• 2 minutes? The statue clearly says cannot be standing for more than 2 minutes as to block the pathway of others, after 2 minutes as long as you’re not blocking the pathway you’re not loitering.
• @5:18 Loitering?! He already said “give me my ID back so i can leave.” She’s keeping him there, how is THAT loitering?
• How can people unironically say they “back the blue” when crap like this happens EVERY DAMN DAY?!
  • depends where you live i dont support city cops but i suppport sheriff’s and a few police in the country they aren’t like these people plus you have no choice but to back the blue lol
  • We all need to know and remember the definition of loitering and our states laws on ID. This lady should be fired
• This was a while ago and I think I recall that while she wasn’t fired for this, she was fired for something else later.
• It’s from 2013.
• love watching these kind of videos, it just makes me appreciate more that I’m living in New Zealand. The cops are friendly, helpful and don’t even carry guns.
• “Stop and identify laws don’t allow an officer to identify anyone, at any time, for no good reason.” Correct. The corrupt legal system refusing to criminally charge and prosecute cops for doing such things is gives them that power. And it will continue until we the people demand it change.
• This seems like an easy win. He was cited for loitering, AFTER he was Detained, and not free to leave.
• So she got caught lying and then played stupid.
• Just when I thought I’d seen them all, they come up with a new one: Ordering you not to leave, then accusing you of LOITERING! Man are they slick!
• another clueless cop demanding ID for not answering questions…. it’s all about running this guy for warrants…. first smoking.. oh wait now loitering….. another cop telling lies….
• I know that in the moment, dealing with these bullies can make it difficult to gather your thoughts, but i would’ve liked to see him have her justify the loitering citation.
• Just love that these tyrants dont make any attempt to hide the fact that they’re taking action against law abiding citizens who they have personal beef with. I just watched a cop on manuel mata’s channel who said clear as day that yes, they can and do solicit trespasses against people just because they dont like them. Said it without hesitancy, knowing he was being filmed.
• I remember this one.. Geez man just sad. Entire country is a police state at this point and I don’t think it’ll change. Just get worse as long as there’s qualified immunity. There’s a reason they don’t teach the Bill of rights or constitution in most public school’s anymore.. Kids are taught to not ask questions just obey any and all authority.
• REMEMBER THE FIRST 2 RULES WHEN DEALING WITH POLICE…(1) ALWAYS RECORD POLICE…(2) ALWAYS KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT…. its your right to remain silent….
• We need to remove qualified immunity 100% cross the board police should be forced to get private insurance just like doctors have to have for malpracticeI remember watching this video a long time ago and these officers are just losing their minds trying ro find any little thing to charge people with
• All auditors should start asking these cops if they’re going to go home and show their kid this video or any video they’re in because we all know they don’t want their children to see who they really are
• It is respectful for a police officer to remove sunglasses when talking to a member of the public in an official capacity, unless you want to try intimidating and hide your sincerity towards them
• I think if a Cop’s sole reason for demanding someone give them ID is to run their name for warrants it’s Unconstitutional!!!
• I love the officer who said he was protecting UTA property! Isn’t he sworn to protect and defend the constitution over any private business needs?
• Sudden realization: I have never had a job where I could interact with anybody inside or outside of the business and say “You’re not gonna tell me how to do my job.” in any official capacity
• And then they hold your ID hostage as they make up a reason to charge you with something. Public property where they can put a trespass on someone and force them to spend time and money to correct the injustice.
• Adam needs to send auditors there and do a mass 1st amendment audit. See if those tyrants has the guts to harass those auditors.
• This happens all the time in utah, all over utah. They just make shit up if they cant catch you or find anything illegal on you. Ive been a victim of this crap all my life. We need more civil rights attorneys here. Ive tried to sue and no attorneys want to take the case
• There is a simple blood test which can identify if a person has used tobacco in the last 30 days. A test which would prove the officer was lying about having seen him smoking.
• The key moment: 7:55 Adam says: “See I know this is your job, but you can quit at any moment. You can quit and go find yourselves a real job.” Truth.
• If you are asked the question, “Were you doing X?”
• The response is always, “Do you suspect me of doing X?”
• In situations like this, always ask for name and badge number remember to uphold your 5th and request an incident report number . Don’t forget to ask for supervisor it’ll be extra aid when you file for civil suits.
• I think they should make a law that any cop found lying is put in prison with hardened criminals.
• couple years ago my fiance and I watched a police officer pick up my wallet from a Dollar General Store parking lot. I was going to visit my brother who has cerebral palsy so my fiance went to the police station to have the officer dispatched. They threatened to arrest her and basically said even if they did recover it there’d be no money in it which it had 130$ in it. The officers basically intimidated her and threatened to arrest her if she filed a complaint. Realizing the weren’t going to help or be honest about the officer who picked up the wallet she decided to leave and we just took it as a loss several weeks after that every time we were in that part of town we began to be followed by patrolmen and a couple of months after that incident they followed her from one end of town to another stopping her and saying the reason for the stop is that they didn’t believe the color of the car match the color that was listed on the registration and when she proved them all of those things they cited her for having a mask hanging from the rearview mirror saying it obstructed her view. six officers showed up on that incident and I myself refused to identify myself because I had did nothing wrong apparently they didn’t like that because we have had nothing but harassment and intimidation from and on Sept 9th 2021 one of the same officers involved during original incident stopped us after we were parked in the out of our vehicle he even admitted on the report that he was several cars behind us and the reason he stopped us was because we didn’t engage your turn signal 100ft prior to the turn but tomorrow understanding that is only when traveling on the highway not within a municipal Corporation limited long story short we were ripped from our vehicle they threatened her and told her that she could go home if she provided my information which she refused they arrested her did not read her her rights tell her why she was being arrested or any of the above and during the arrest after we had already asked for a supervisor because the officer lied on the report and on the violation they’re trying to say now that the cam footage doesn’t exist and that is a lie it just shows one of the officers dropped their gun clip and bullets fell out everywhere while having my faced slammed to the ground. We tried to file a complaint with the chief of police for that incident and was threatened with arrest for making false accusations not a reporter knees has he been listen to our side of the story and trying to get us both to court to charges that we did not commit but are only trying to cover up their misconduct where do we go for help
• Even if he did answer her question and said he wasn’t smoking, she wouldn’t believe him, so it wouldn’t matter what he said.
• “You can’t leave. You’re being detained.”
• “For what crime?”
• “Loitering.”
• I’m pretty sure that’s called illegal detainment ..not loitering.
• She’s also purposely breaking his ID if you watch her hands. Cops do this all the time, I’ve gotten my ID back damaged and once my friend got his back completely broken.
• She was damaging property ( his ID card) by bending it in the whole interaction
• UPDATE: Although this video is nearly 9 years old (2013) the viral content didn.t hinder Aymee Race’s career. Over the years she has received several commendations , currently (2021) she has risen to the rank of Detective and serves at the Unified Police Department based in Salt Lake City, Utah.
• I’m from Salt Lake and I can say from personal experience those Transit cops are worse than the regular cops
• Cop: I saw you smoking! Issues a ticket for loitering with no mention of smoking. It’s like her whole argument had nothing to stand on in the first place.
• These people aren’t cops! They don’t know what it is to serve a community. She is bearing false witness. For shame. Take that badge off. She is a horrible cop
• I checked out Adam’s page. He specifically asked to be left alone. This video is several years old and was his only video. He has received death threats over it. He believes the cops have too. The reaction was way more than he expected; and way over the top! He was not a part of the audit community; this was just a “one-off.” He had somebody else edit and post it for him — and then forgot about it until the hate started. Why did you think it was a good idea to bring new trouble to this guy? Oh, there’s money in it!
• .. It’s this immature, bully attitude from law enforcement that frustrates and angers me. Their actions are not supported by the constitution or law. This was completely unnecessary and sickening.
• That guys biggest mistake was giving her his identification, he got it partially right by asking if he committed a crime and the burden of proof is on her which she couldn’t produce so she slaps a loitering charge on him instead, how can you be loitering if your there waiting for someone? He let this cop manipulate him!
• .. I hate those laws that require you to sign or it’s automatically a higher offence and/or jail time.
• .. We need to speak up about this problem we need to flood their phones and peacefully protest our grievances
• .. Should have asked for a supervisor as soon as she forced the ID issue. She’s a perfect example of the types of crooks creating the divide between the communities and the police.
• .. This is exactly why we need a law on the books to protect citizens. In order to protect your rights and fight back against these kinds of acts, you have to go to court, but for many people representation is costly and difficult to obtain. 50 dollars is nothing. It’s extortion by a thousand cuts, making sure that the price of paying for the unlawful ticket is cheaper than fighting the charge. Pass a law that allows citizens to recover their costs against violations like these and watch this behavior dry up.
• .. Pure harassment. Those cops need to be fired!
• She asked if he was smoking and he said no. Then she said I saw you smoking. Then he asked then why’d you ask me? Then she said , “Because I wanted to see if you would be truthful.” Then when she couldn’t prove it they accuse him of loitering. Then a bus pulls up? It’s a bus stop! He’s supposedly loitering at a bus stop which people wait at for busses for hours!
• kinda makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside the way cops have our backs don’t it?
• .. “What are you serving and protecting?” “I’m protecting UTA property.” And that ladies, gentlemen, and NBs is EXACTLY what American police do in this country. They protect CAPITAL, not PEOPLE.
• .. It’s like the cops want to give the public a reason to despise them! Peace!
• .. “Show me your ID” is the drug of choice for cops.
• It’s so interesting the the lying cop wants to see if the person she’s lying to will be honest! With regard to judges taking the word of a cop over that of a citizen, any judge should know that the burden of proof is on the government. So the benefit of the doubt should always be to the citizen.
• 6:00 as she flicks the I.D. she is deciding what she can do to him. If he had a vehicle they would have given him an even more difficult time in retaliation.
• In the other 2 officers defense, sitting idle while this happens is part of the problem. 8:45 she wants his vehicle too. 9:15 she tickets him. He asks “I got a ticket for loitering?!?!” She demands his quiet, so instead of saying “Yes,” she can make him appear rude and interruptive so she can hear her own voice repeat her/his offense: “I am giving you a ticket for loitering…” he repeats it. “LET ME SPEAK! I am giving you a ticket for loitering.” Lying and belittling is part of this witch’s job
• .. It should be illegal for the officer to wear a sunglasses while handling “suspects”
• Other than the police, what other profession do their employees regularly lie ?
• .. His first mistake was talking to her. His second mistake was giving up his ID.
• This is exactly why body cams are essential
• .. A signature on a ticket is a contract (to show up in court and plead ones innocence in this case), no one person nor entity may be compelled to enter into a contract with or without due representation. This is a common misconception, upon full information to fill out a ticket and an officer signature there is no need for the issuant to also sign. This is classic bully tactics and retaliation because the initial ‘infraction’ was never cited nor spoken of again.
• .. If refusing to sign a citation is a class b misdemeanor then what she did was fraud for trying to stitch him up
• .. So, she lied about him smoking, detains him then does him for loitering. I think she missed the charge of walking on the cracks in the pavement.
• .. The 2 male cops are just as guilty for just standing by while they watched an illegal retaliation citation.
• What happened to protect and serve? Treat people how you want to be treated. That goes for cops too….once you have determined a no threat situation, act accordingly. Women cops are the worst power trippers. Very sad
• .. Cops can’t trespass you unless the property owner or agent requests it.
• .. You can’t be trespassed unless you were asked by UIT to leave first, only then can she give a trespass warning.
• .. Another example of why Qualified Immunity needs to be abolished for LEOs. Qualified Immunity is for government officials so they can keep it, but not ANY type of LEO. Back the Blue Until it Happens to YOU.
• .. I looked it up; UTA Utah Transportation Authority is a public funded operation. In order to be trespassed from any public property, you have to be committing a crime on that property. That trespass order was illegal.
• Her question about if he parked his vehicle over here is illogical. If, as she claimed, that she had witnessed him smoking; which was a total lie, then she would have observed where he came from. All three of these cops should be charged in federal court with a CRIMINAL civil rights violation. It’s the law that brought down the klan.
• I remember this video. She was constantly making things up in order to justify her stop. Its her EGO thats hurt cause he wouldnt answer her He’s not obligated to answer her questions. 1rst she asks “if he was smoking”, than says ” he was smoking” then asks again. Than hes “LOITERING” Than “tresspassing” Funny how she wont answer what hes detained for She starts her corporate City Masters well. Revenue collecting
• She kept him from leaving by holding his documents, then cites for loitering? Really? What arrogance.
• .. They detained him and required him to stay. In other words they created the offense that they cited him for.
• I got hassled in the UK by a community police officer (something below a full police officer) for pulling over on double yellow lines (no parking) to let a passenger out. He told me I couldn’t park there and I said I wasn’t parking, I was just letting someone out and then moving on. He said that’s the same thing. I asked why double red lines exist (meaning no stopping) and rather than answer, he just started walking around my vehicle looking for a different reason to give me a hard time. That’s what they do. If you bruise their egos, they will find a petty reason to punish you. Since he was not a full cop I just drove off in the middle of him doing his checks.
• This is retaliation for exercising 5th amendment rights.
• The dumb logic of the officers that some auditors should be aware of. How does asking for I.D. gonna help investigate a crime? How his ID gonna prove if he was smoking or not?
• Wow that was clearly a set up, if I a: in that situation after seeing this, I would walk away and say I am not going to be entrapped, I don’t smoke, not going to loiter. I would like to see if this female and the other two cops are writing these tickets all day long. The money must be outstanding, think about it, $50.00 a person x3 cops writing let’s say 5 people a day, that’s $750.00 a day, $5,250.00 week, $21,000. A month, $252,000. A year….that’s just 5 people each. That is a ridiculous amount of money. They entrapped him, they purposely stopped him to keep him there over 2 minutes to write that ticket. I think it is unlawful and disgraceful.This is so sad, that we deal with this in a so called free country!
• Would that not be like stopping you at a red light then giving you a ticket after the light turned green because you didn’t go. I called my buddies over, it’s a power thing.
• This one would be an easy inexpensive to beat. Simply ask the officer why she initiated contact. Either the truthful answer (she believed she observed him smoking) or the false answer (she observed him loitering) would be difficult for her to prove. Smoking: beyond her belief, there was no evidence; when she arrived at his location,, no cigarettes were found on his person, no extinguished cigarettes were found nearby. Loitering: he had a legitimate and lawful reason to be at the station, so no loitering.
• ..  The cop says that she wanted to see if he would be truthful or not. That’s fresh coming from cops who lie all the time
• This is downtown near Gateway Mall and Plaza. There’s cameras probably about every twenty or so feet. The cops had evidence this guy was smoking then they should have issued a citation ;But this is unclear if he was smoking or if there’s a violation of any kind. If you presents this in court the charges will be dismissed. Then again Sue UTA for quite a bit. UTA is partially public owed.
• UTA is 84% funded through taxes and federal grants, that makes it public property, not private property.
• Utah is the most inhospitable state I have ever been to
• Being a cop is a hard job but this was a cash grab from the cops proof in point he was not charged with smoking but a bogus charge that would be hard to prove differently
• They can not legally trespass someone from publicly accessible areas. Police can not legally trespass. Only the owner of the property can trespass.
• How she casually lies on someone….that is the most alarming thing about this video.
• In the U.K. where I live, the cops don’t act like tyrants. If you commit a minor traffic offence, or accidentally drop a piece of litter for example, the cops would probably just give you some advice, “Be careful, don’t do it again” Part of the reason for this is that if you get charged with a minor non – criminal offence in the U.K. then the cop will have a lot of paper work to write up, which they would rather not have to do.
• Instead of suggesting that auditors stay quiet (a virtual impossibility for many of them), you should suggest that they either stay silent, or answer every question with a question (which is both NOT answering a question, and not staying silent). I think that you will find that many of them are capable of this far easier than just remaining silent.
• Just so everyone knows, the videos of the light rail train is NOT from Utah. That is the Hoboken, NJ light rail station. It is connected to the Hoboken NJ Transit train terminal. I know because I lived in Jersey City most of my life and have been an EMT with the Hoboken Volunteer Ambulance Corps for 22 years.
• I would have never tolerated that bullshit and would have contacted a attorney, fought the charges until they were dismissed and then I would have gone to a town meeting and served them with a civil complaint, I also would have contacted the news media as well , the city council or commissioners should be out rage as to how the police are treating out of town visitors !
• All you have to do is get a foot from him and smell. Then all of that extra bunk is void.
• People has said it many times and I’m sure its just annoying to hear. But this is why no one has any compassion for the police when stuff happens for them. The few people that do care for the cops are either bootlickers that worship them or people that are ignorant to what the police has been doing to our community. There is no in between at this point, you either worship them or you’re ignorant to what they’ve been doing to law abiding citizens. I used to love the police until the day they allowed my mother to die and until I saw all that shit they’ve been doing to people that dared to question them.
• Police & sheriffs do this constantly. They need mental health training so desperately because they are causing trauma & in severe cases PTSD symptoms.
• Federal prosecutor, “Show me the man, I’ll show you the crime.”

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