Nicholas Shaxson, journalist, writer, consultant, and author of Treasure Islands: Tax Havens and the Men Who Stole the World, gives an insight into his book, .
With more than 20 millionaires in the UK cabinet, reporter Antony Barnett examines the financial affairs of some ministers and others who have helped the .
Transcript
00:00
why do you think tax havens are such an
00:03
important issue right now and why do you
00:07
think it’s a subject that hasn’t really
00:09
come to light until recently tax havens
00:13
have been completely under the radar
00:15
under the radar screen for such a long
00:17
time partly because there has been this
00:20
perception that I think is deliberately
00:22
encouraged that this is these are just
00:24
places for a few kind of mafiosi and you
00:27
know celebrity tax dodgers and and you
00:29
know if you go spits and and just people
00:33
who you know misfits but the fact is
00:37
that these are now the heart of the
00:40
global economy depending on how you
00:42
measure it the figures are absolutely
00:44
staggering I mean half of world trade in
00:48
a way passes through through tax havens
00:51
huge huge amounts of money are involved
00:55
every multinational corporation pretty
00:57
much these days will have offshore
00:58
subsidiaries that they will use for
01:00
various reasons tax cutting down on
01:03
their tax bills is usually top of the
01:05
reasons banks are recently the Mail on
01:09
Sunday they did a great little
01:10
investigation about how many offshore
01:12
cysts offshore subsidiaries you know the
01:14
UK banks have and the top three Lloyd’s
01:17
Barclays an RBS had 550 offshore
01:21
subsidiaries between them and in every
01:23
survey in fact where they look at you
01:25
know what are the top companies that
01:27
have sub city that have top ranking
01:29
companies in terms a number of
01:30
subsidiaries in tax havens it’s always
01:32
the banks the banks are right in there
01:34
so this is the heart of the financial
01:36
system and when you consider the City of
01:39
London is you know as it is an offshore
01:41
system center in its own right then you
01:42
realize that this is this is absolutely
01:45
central so why hasn’t it I am still a
01:48
little bit mystified as to why it hasn’t
01:50
been so hasn’t it why it has been so far
01:53
under the radar screen I think you know
01:55
there are many different reasons I’m
01:56
still not satisfied with any of them I
01:58
mean it’s the complexity is obviously
02:00
part of it people can only ever see a
02:02
little bit of it at a time and but I
02:05
think now we are at a phase where this
02:07
is starting I know I think my book is
02:09
part of that but there are others who
02:10
are also putting this thing in a hole
02:13
takes a global context and we in Britain
02:15
must understand that this is something
02:16
that is a is a global problem and we are
02:19
right at the center of it if you work
02:22
out what a tax haven is tax haven offers
02:25
people and entities elsewhere
02:27
opportunities to escape – escape taxes
02:29
in their own jurisdictions to escape
02:31
financial regulations or whatever if you
02:34
start doing the analysis you will
02:35
quickly find that the jurisdictions that
02:37
are most effective in offering these
02:39
forms of escape our places like the UK
02:42
the the only objective ranking of in
02:46
terms of secrecy secrecy in a very
02:48
important part of it there and in
02:50
objective ranking was created by the Tax
02:52
Justice Network called the financial
02:54
secrecy index where they took a measure
02:58
they look to how opaque jurisdictions
03:01
were they looked at although they use 12
03:03
indicators to work out how a paper just
03:05
jurisdiction work was and then they
03:07
waited it according to the size of the
03:10
cross-border financial services activity
03:12
and the ranking was very clear the
03:14
United States was was top and you have
03:16
at the top of this ranking you have big
03:19
oacd countries United States Luxembourg
03:21
a great dark horse of the offshore
03:23
system that most people don’t really
03:24
know about the Netherlands Switzerland
03:27
of course the Cayman Islands is very big
03:29
United Kingdom right up there
03:32
Ireland these are the big offshore
03:34
jurisdictions if you’re talking about
03:36
offshore finance this is where it this
03:38
is where it happens and this is the
03:40
result of a process particularly since
03:41
the 1970s of the offshore system
03:43
steadily pushing its way onshore the
03:46
United States didn’t used to be a tax
03:48
haven in this way and it has steadily
03:50
become more so become gained more and
03:52
more and more offshore characteristics
03:58
[Applause]
04:10
[Applause]
04:19
there’s a very specific issue about the
04:22
UK and the UK has this network of havens
04:26
around the world such as the Crown
04:28
Dependencies Jersey Guernsey the Isle of
04:30
Man the overseas territories which are
04:33
kind of the you know the remnants of the
04:35
British Empire such as the cayman
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islands such as bermuda such as
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gibraltar such as the turks and caicos
04:41
islands these are all tax havens and
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they are partly controlled by Britain
04:46
they are half in half out of Britain
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these if you look at their flags you’ll
04:51
see a little British flag in the corner
04:52
you’ll see you know the governor is
04:54
appointed by the Queen so they’re all
04:56
these Britain is supporting these places
04:58
very much but they do have their own
04:59
independent politics so it’s a kind of
05:01
ambiguous relationship but what happens
05:04
with these jurisdictions is that they
05:05
are in my book I describe it as being
05:07
like a spider’s web so and I think that
05:11
is probably the best analogy so this is
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a network of havens around the world and
05:14
you’ll have in the Caribbean for example
05:16
they’ll be focusing on business in the
05:18
Americas North and South America the
05:20
Crown Dependencies
05:21
Jersey Guernsey the Isle of Man will be
05:23
looking mostly at Europe you know out in
05:26
the Pacific they’ll be looking at Asia
05:28
and and Australasia and what these
05:32
things do they attract money into into
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the havens or the business into the
05:38
havens into the into individual havens
05:40
and that business gets fed up to the
05:42
City of London so there is this sort of
05:44
capture of money from all around the
05:46
world and the business of handling this
05:47
money is constantly constantly fed up to
05:50
the City of London
05:51
I mean Jersey alone was the biggest
05:53
single source of bank deposits being up
05:56
streamed up to the city during the
05:57
during that during the crisis and that’s
05:59
just Jersey that’s just one tax haven so
06:01
we’re talking about hundreds and
06:03
hundreds of billions trillions of
06:04
dollars running through the city of
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London as a result of it having this
06:09
network of havens this kind of spider’s
06:11
web bringing in business and that is the
06:13
offshore system that brings all this
06:16
money to the system is one of the most
06:18
fundamental if not the most important
06:20
under
06:21
for the financial power of the City of
06:22
London so if we’re worried about the
06:23
city and its power in the stranglehold
06:25
it has on our governments and our
06:27
societies this is this is this is where
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it where so much of it comes from this
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is where probably the biggest part of it
06:34
comes from this at this offshore system
06:36
that brings in business that’s one sided
06:40
but also the city in its own right the
06:41
City of London Corporation which is the
06:43
local government authority for the city
06:46
of London is in itself a slightly alien
06:50
political entity in Britain it is not
06:53
just another municipal authority it has
06:55
all of its own rules that are very
06:58
different from what apply in the rest of
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written I mean voting rights in the city
07:02
it’s not just humans who vote there are
07:04
corporations corporate management
07:07
effectively can vote in the local
07:09
elections in the city of London it’s a
07:12
bizarre thing that most people in
07:13
Britain don’t know about but I’ve you
07:14
know I write about it in some detail in
07:16
my book you know when the Queen comes to
07:19
the city she stops at the city gates and
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it’s it’s a kind of ceremony but she has
07:22
to meet the Lord Mayor and touch his
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sword and there’s all this kind of
07:26
colourful you know ermine robes and
07:28
stuff Arizona but it’s a real marker
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that there is a political discontinuity
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at the boundaries of the city and it is
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a very different political entity that
07:37
has them it submits to many of the rules
07:39
of this country but it’s also carved
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itself out from them so it is kind of an
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offshore island in a very very real
07:45
sense
07:54
there have been reformers over centuries
07:58
trying to trying to particularly merge
08:02
the City of London with the rest of
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London and it’s bizarre that London
08:05
London is A Tale of Two Cities I mean
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there is London has a mayor currently
08:09
Boris Johnson and it has a Lord Mayor
08:12
who’s sitting in the guild hall this
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really is a Tale of Two Cities and there
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have been reformers in the past who have
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tried to say what we need is one
08:22
government for London we need to expand
08:25
the city to cover instead of 9,000
08:28
residents to cover whatever the
08:31
population is 8 million or so
08:33
Londoners and you have one single London
08:35
government the Labour Party for much of
08:38
the last century had a had a or for a
08:41
large part of it had a pledge in its
08:42
manifesto to abolish the City of London
08:44
Corporation and merged into the rest of
08:47
London and Tony Blair when he in 1996 as
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part of his bid bid for power he he
08:54
decreed that he either that pledge would
08:56
be abolished and he made a deal with the
08:58
city and he made a promise to reform it
09:00
instead and that reform ended up being
09:02
an expansion of the corporate vote it’s
09:04
a totally bizarre story and I mean how
09:06
many people in Britain really know about
09:08
this I think it’s something that we need
09:10
to understand much much better and I
09:13
went to see them the other day because
09:15
I’m quite horrible about them right and
09:17
in a way um but I really felt like you
09:21
know naughty schoolboy going in front of
09:23
headmaster okay yes I did actually yes
09:29
yes
09:31
[Music]
09:34
settle down everybody settle down now
09:37
one thing we forgot when we came in what
09:39
did we forget past we did not take their
09:42
registar Jenkins Jenkins Jenkins very
09:52
good now anybody who isn’t here right
09:57
now the next class is may be unsurprised
10:02
to find out double banking this morning
10:07
is the eh-2-zed of modern banking
10:11
otherwise known as a last Atomics so
10:16
there will be a test at the end so keep
10:19
quiet pay attention and do feel free to
10:21
take notes so a what is a for
10:26
accountants yes a for accountants what
10:30
is the definition of an accountant
10:33
that is one definition account is not
10:38
the one I thought written unfriended me
10:39
so detention an accountant is someone
10:44
who is when asked add two plus two but
10:48
over the answer and what would you like
10:51
that to add up to they considering pay
10:54
professional in Ferris budget the only
10:56
answer that you’ll find is for B what is
11:00
B for it’s bloody obvious they’re very
11:06
clever institutions who somehow make it
11:09
seem that they are doing you a favor
11:11
when you lend them your hard earned cash
11:14
and who are allowed by government to
11:16
create money virtually out of nothing
11:18
which they then make you pay a lot for
11:21
right you hear that argument all the
11:24
time if it’s not there’s nothing
11:26
companies can do and in a narrow sense
11:28
that’s true
11:29
companies will they are in a competitive
11:32
marketplace and if they feel they need
11:33
to compete by dodging taxes more
11:35
aggressively than the next one then then
11:38
they will do that but you must have
11:41
forget the golden rule who has the gold
11:43
makes the rules in other words the rules
11:47
the tax laws of this country are very
11:50
substantially crafted by big
11:51
corporations that want those tax laws
11:53
right now as we speak there’s the at
11:56
some tax green paper has been floated
12:01
which has got some horrible concessions
12:03
huge concessions to multinational
12:05
corporations and this is the result of a
12:09
lot of consultations and committees
12:11
where you know the tax directors of many
12:14
of the biggest multinationals are
12:15
sitting on this saying basically this is
12:17
the tax system we want and and and so
12:19
corporations are punching holes in our
12:21
legislation all the time it’s a constant
12:23
process of creating loopholes lobbying
12:26
to lobbying in Parliament and elsewhere
12:28
to to make sure that they get what they
12:30
want so companies are not bystanders in
12:33
this they’re active players in this and
12:34
we have to hold their feet to the fire
12:36
so you can cut is quite right to do that
12:38
the other thing that UK Uncut has done
12:40
is to generate all sorts of new debate
12:43
this is a demo
12:44
pratik process we’re talking about here
12:46
has not been properly debated before and
12:48
they have by by taking on very high
12:51
profile targets quite legitimately they
12:55
have highlighted something that is
12:56
profoundly wrong in our society this is
12:58
a huge fault line in global capitalism
13:00
this is a distortion of markets and they
13:03
have identified it and they are focusing
13:07
on companies is absolutely the right the
13:08
right thing to do of course governments
13:10
need to be pressured as well no question
13:12
about it well there’s there’s there’s
13:25
the so-called yeah but there’s that
13:26
there’s that difference they always they
13:28
always make their say yes we pay lots of
13:29
taxes and but the question is do you do
13:32
you pay the taxes you should the urban
13:34
myth thing is always wheeled out and and
13:37
there is what some of us call the philip
13:39
green defense which is no tax was
13:43
avoided because no tax was due but what
13:47
he doesn’t say is that no tax was due
13:49
because i put a lot of work into making
13:51
sure that no tax was due so it’s a whole
13:53
slippery game that’s going on here and
13:55
this urban myth thing is quite wrong
13:57
that this is they will say that because
14:00
what you have when multinational
14:03
corporations use aggressive offshore
14:05
strategies to cut their tax bills you
14:08
have at the far extreme of it tax
14:11
evasion which is illegal activity and on
14:13
the other end tax avoidance which is by
14:16
definition legal but also by definition
14:18
avoidance it is guessing around the
14:20
spirit of legislation but in between
14:22
these two poles you have this huge grey
14:24
area and the level of aggression that
14:27
companies use in in in terms of avoiding
14:29
taxes and puts them somewhere on this on
14:32
this spectrum so when they say it’s an
14:37
urban myth they can make they can
14:39
construct an argument that technically
14:41
we have not broken any laws here look at
14:43
what we’ve done so it’s an urban myth
14:45
that we’ve avoided any money but in real
14:47
fact if you look at what they should pay
14:49
according to what democratic society
14:50
wants then you get a very very different
14:53
picture indeed so it’s not an urban myth
14:57
and the Vodafone story for example the
15:00
research was done by one of a former top
15:04
HM Revenue customs corporate tax
15:07
official who really you know he’s one of
15:09
the best in the business there’s no
15:10
question that that this is this is money
15:12
this is serious money that we’re talking
15:13
about and when they say it’s an urban
15:15
myth it’s just these are just word games
15:16
they’re they’re using to work to try and
15:19
justify what they’re doing this is money
15:27
given by the rich and the government to
15:30
their friends and the people of causes
15:32
that they like and considered a good
15:34
thing which is not to be confused with
15:37
money that goes to people and causes
15:38
they don’t like which they call subsidy
15:42
you can cut wasn’t a new phase and for
15:47
me it’s a something that kind of
15:48
exploded onto the streets which is
15:50
absolutely fantastic and so I see this
15:54
is we’re just at a fairly early stage of
15:56
a process and UK Uncut is looking at one
15:59
particular aspect of this system which
16:00
is corporate tax avoidance which is a
16:02
very important part of it but what what
16:06
is really out there is something much
16:07
bigger than that much more
16:08
all-encompassing and Britain has a
16:10
particular role in this in this global
16:12
offshore system I mean there’s no
16:15
dispute really that Britain is
16:17
responsible for about half of the tax
16:20
havens in the world and Britain is a tax
16:22
haven in its own right but you know what
16:24
companies want is when they come to a
16:27
country what they want ultimately is a
16:30
healthy and educated workforce they want
16:32
good infrastructure they want a well
16:34
governed country and that means taxes
16:37
and they don’t want you know taxes for
16:40
most corporations especially if they’re
16:42
not in the financial sector rank fairly
16:45
low there’ll be sort of four or four or
16:48
five on the list of priorities when
16:49
they’re looking at where to invest I
16:50
mean you’re not going to go you know set
16:52
up a car factory in Nigeria because it
16:55
offers you know you 0% tax on profits
16:59
and that’s not what that’s not what
17:00
drives investment decisions at the
17:02
decisions at the end of the day and so
17:04
yeah so but still politicians are
17:07
terrified
17:07
you know the this threat is made and and
17:10
they don’t know what to do and then they
17:11
say okay we’ll give you what you want
17:13
and it happens all the time and
17:14
politicians I think should call their
17:15
bluff a lot more on these sorts of
17:18
things where do you think June fits into
17:27
this picture and the disks that are
17:30
being handed over recently banking
17:33
details I think I mean I think Julian
17:37
Assange and WikiLeaks is a fascinating
17:39
story I think in this particular case
17:40
the recent handing over of two CDs by
17:43
Rudolph Alma the Swiss banker I think
17:45
it’s actually elmer story which is
17:46
perhaps the more interesting part of
17:48
this of this debate um he is a Swiss
17:51
banker who worked in the Cayman Islands
17:53
and got a very senior position with with
17:56
a big Swiss bank and he learnt a lot and
18:01
eventually decided to blow the whistle
18:03
and for whatever reasons and he is now
18:06
in prison in Switzerland for breaking
18:09
Swiss bank secrecy in the Cayman Islands
18:12
so it’s a very bizarre situation we’re
18:14
in
18:15
III don’t know what’s in what’s on the
18:19
disk I think WikiLeaks as we speak is
18:20
still analyzing them and I almost
18:23
certainly you know it is bona fide a
18:24
star from and I’ve spent time with Elmer
18:26
and he’s a fascinating guy who very
18:29
highly qualified but I think the the
18:33
aspect of it there’s a battle of ideas
18:36
going on here where jurisdictions like
18:40
Switzerland are saying it’s a crime to
18:43
steal data whereas people like Elmer and
18:47
myself would say it’s a crime to invade
18:50
billions of dollars of taxes and if if
18:55
the price is that data is is removed
18:59
through certain means then that’s a
19:01
price worth paying it’s like police
19:02
having informants you know they do that
19:05
do it all the time they they overlook
19:08
certain things in order to get you know
19:10
a bigger catch and it’s that’s what’s
19:12
going on here so that I think that’s the
19:14
story in this case and I think is this
19:16
making the world more transparent
19:18
yes there is some there is some more
19:21
transparency coming out as a result of
19:22
this it’s a good thing the release of
19:23
the release of data and general
19:25
publication of publication of data but
19:29
now countries like Switzerland with the
19:32
collusion of places like the UK are
19:34
working very hard to find ways to stop
19:37
this happening than to you know that
19:39
they’ve been very nasty indeed to Elmer
19:42
and I don’t know what’s going to happen
19:43
to him now that he’s in prison but also
19:45
they’re making it harder for you know
19:49
they’re putting in place new treaties
19:51
where they refuse to exchange any
19:52
information with anybody if there’s any
19:53
data that’s been what they call stolen
19:56
data so I think that’s it’s but I don’t
19:59
think this is good this is a game
20:00
changer that the release of information
20:02
unless we get a whole rash of new
20:04
whistleblowers but I think it’s it’s
20:05
important it’s important signal to
20:07
people that there’s something awful
20:08
going on here and I think it’s very good
20:10
from that point of view to expose what’s
20:12
really going on but these will only be
20:14
very sort of anecdotal pictures in a
20:16
much much bigger picture of crime and
20:19
abuse what places like Switzerland are
20:22
trying to do is to try and make any you
20:23
know trying to you know be very
20:26
unpleasant make it very unpleasant for
20:28
whistleblowers so I think there’s a fear
20:29
out there as well is it the start of a
20:31
trend of a strain I I trained I know
20:33
that there is I know that growing
20:35
numbers of people who work in this
20:36
sector are growing uncomfortable with it
20:38
last night I gave a talk at Chatham
20:40
House about financial secrecy and I had
20:42
somebody came up to me afterwards who
20:44
works for a private bank and was
20:46
essentially apologising for what she was
20:49
doing and saying yes you’re right this
20:51
stuff is happening and I’m doing it and
20:53
I feel really bad about it and and so I
20:55
think there is a real sense of
20:57
discomfort
20:57
whereas before a few years ago there was
20:59
not really much questioning of this
21:01
whole system it was sort of accepted
21:02
that secrecy is good and we you know the
21:05
crime is to reveal information to law
21:07
enforcement it’s a bit of a kind of
21:08
mafia code
21:15
I think now that there are a lot more
21:19
people talking about how rotten this
21:21
system is I think a lot more people are
21:23
feeling uncomfortable in in these jobs
21:25
and so I’m hopeful that there will be a
21:27
lot more revelations and people coming
21:31
forwards to explain what’s what the
21:34
system really looks like these are
21:38
salubrious retirement plans for Nobel
21:41
prize-winning mathematicians the huge
21:43
amount of money by producing absolutely
21:46
nothing of use for society and have been
21:50
known to explode unexpectedly confused
21:55
with Paige there’s no magic bullets to
22:04
all of this people often ask me this and
22:07
that the first answer I always give is
22:09
that we are still at a phase where we
22:11
don’t even have the education about the
22:13
system to know what to do about it there
22:15
needs to be widespread public
22:17
understanding and also a change there
22:21
has been a tolerance of this for such a
22:23
long time because people haven’t really
22:24
seen it people have just accepted what’s
22:27
going on and because the system is so
22:29
complicated if you’re talking about tax
22:31
when if a journalist wants to know our
22:32
pattern to write about a tax subject
22:35
there will ring up someone from KPMG or
22:38
one of the big accountancy firms these
22:40
firm their business is to design
22:42
strategies to help their clients avoid
22:44
tax and so they have got this they have
22:46
developed this worldview that tax is bad
22:48
and offshore is good and there has been
22:51
this soap so this journalist will ring
22:53
these people up and then this this
22:55
worldview gets kind of propagated into
22:57
the whole whole public consciousness and
22:59
that hasn’t really until very recently
23:02
being properly challenged and I think
23:03
that’s another it’s a very sort of vague
23:07
slightly wishy-washy thing to talk about
23:09
but but it is absolutely essential we
23:11
need to completely start to really
23:14
challenge this culture that offshore is
23:16
good and tax is bad and financial
23:19
regulation is bad and that is now
23:20
starting to happen not just as a result
23:23
of people like UK Uncut
23:24
but also wider issues such as the
23:26
financial crisis which I’ve made people
23:27
question all the assumptions that
23:30
they’ve been making before is really
23:33
difficult in a word yes and I think part
23:38
of the reason for that is that you know
23:41
we the last three years has proved has
23:44
shown to us that what we you know so
23:46
much of what we felt thought we
23:48
understood about economics is actually
23:50
rubbish but yeah I mean I think the
23:54
latest crisis you know that all these
23:56
sort of dizzying numbers coming out of
23:57
trillions and banks being supported with
24:00
these huge numbers of huge amount of
24:02
taxpayer money it’s it’s absolutely
24:06
baffling to everybody and I you know I
24:08
you know having spent a lot of time
24:10
researching the offshore system which is
24:12
a huge part of the global economy I you
24:15
know I have seen it you know it’s one of
24:17
those things where the more you know the
24:18
less you know the more you research them
24:20
all kind of you realize you don’t know
24:22
what’s going on so it is it is terribly
24:25
confusing though if you’re talking about
24:27
the offshore system it’s the essential
24:29
principles are very simple and this
24:31
these are these are places that provide
24:34
escape for mostly wealthy elite from the
24:38
rules and laws and taxes and regulations
24:41
that they don’t like leaving everyone
24:43
else to to pay their taxes for them or
24:46
all suffer the consequences of poor
24:49
financial regulation so there are very
24:50
simple principles about that but the
24:54
actual details of what’s going on is
24:56
incredibly incredibly complicated and
24:58
baffling and I think they like I think
25:01
the people who run this system or who
25:04
are big players in this system like it
25:06
that way
25:15
you
25:32
called the financial secrecy index
25:36
where they took a measure they look to
25:39
how opaque jurisdictions were they
25:41
looked at although they use 12
25:43
indicators to work out how a paper just
25:45
jurisdiction work was and then they
25:46
waited it according to the size of the
25:49
cross-border financial services activity
25:51
and the ranking was very clear the
25:53
United States was was top and you have
25:55
at the top of this ranking you have big
25:58
oacd countries the United States
26:00
Luxembourg a great dark horse of the
26:02
offshore system that most people don’t
26:04
really know about the Netherlands
26:05
Switzerland of course the Cayman Islands
26:08
is very big United Kingdom right up
26:10
there
26:11
Ireland these are the big offshore
26:14
jurisdictions if you’re talking about
26:15
offshore finance and this is where it
26:17
this is where it happens and this is the
26:19
result of a process particularly since
26:21
the 1970s of the offshore system
26:22
steadily pushing its way onshore the
26:25
United States didn’t used to be a tax
26:27
haven in this way
26:28
and it has steadily become more so
26:30
become many different reasons I’m still
26:32
not satisfied with any of them I mean
26:34
it’s the complexity is obviously part of
26:36
it people can only ever see a little bit
26:38
of it at a time and but I think now we
26:41
are at a phase where this is started I
26:43
know I think my book is part of that but
26:45
there are others who are also putting
26:47
this thing in a whole context of global
26:49
context and and we and Britain must
26:51
understand that this is something that
26:52
is a is a global problem and we are
26:55
right at the center of it if you work
26:57
out what a tax haven is tax haven offers
27:00
people and entities elsewhere
27:02
opportunities to escape – escape taxes
27:05
in their own jurisdictions to escape
27:07
financial regulations or whatever if you
27:09
start doing the analysis you will
27:11
quickly find that the jurisdictions that
27:13
are most effective in offering these
27:15
forms of escape our places like the UK
27:17
the the only objective ranking of in
27:21
terms of secrecy secrecy – in a very
27:24
important part of it there and in
27:25
objective ranking was created by the Tax
27:28
Justice Network why do you think tax
27:31
havens are such an important issue right
27:34
now and why do you think it’s a subject
27:38
that hasn’t really come to light until
27:40
recently tax havens have been completely
27:43
under the radar under the radar screen
27:46
for such a long time
27:48
partly because there has been this
27:50
perception that I think is deliberately
27:51
encouraged that this is these are just
27:53
places for a few kind of mafiosi and you
27:56
know celebrity tax dodgers and and you
27:59
know a few curves bibs and and just
28:02
people who you know misfits but the fact
28:06
is that these are now the heart of the
28:09
global economy depending on how you
28:11
measure it the figures are absolutely
28:14
staggering I mean half of world trade in
28:17
a way passes through through tax havens
28:21
huge huge amounts of money are involved
28:24
every multinational corporation pretty
28:26
much these days
28:27
gain more more and more offshore
28:29
characteristics
28:33
[Applause]
28:46
[Applause]
28:54
there’s a very specific issue about the
28:58
UK and the UK has this network of havens
29:02
around the world such as the Crown
29:03
Dependencies Jersey Guernsey the Isle of
29:06
Man the overseas territories which are
29:08
kind of the you know the remnants of the
29:10
British Empire such as the cayman
29:13
islands such as bermuda such as
29:14
Gibraltar
29:15
such as the Turks and Caicos Islands
29:17
these are all tax havens and they are
29:20
partly controlled by Britain they are
29:22
half in half out of Britain these will
29:25
have offshore subsidiaries that they
29:27
will use for various reasons tax cutting
29:30
down on their tax bills is usually top
29:33
of the reasons banks are recently The
29:36
Mail on Sunday they did a great little
29:38
investigation about how many offshore
29:39
cysts offshore subsidiaries you know the
29:42
UK banks have in the top three Lloyd’s
29:45
Barclays an RBS had 550 offshore
29:48
subsidiaries between them and in every
29:51
survey in fact where they look at you
29:53
know what are the top companies that
29:54
have sub city that have top ranking
29:56
companies in terms a number of
29:57
subsidiaries in tax havens it’s always
30:00
the banks the banks are right in there
30:02
so this is the heart of the financial
30:03
system and when you consider the City of
30:06
London is you know as an offshore system
30:08
senator in its own right then you
30:10
realize that this is this is absolutely
30:12
central so why hasn’t it I am still a
30:15
little bit mystified as to why it hasn’t
30:17
been so hasn’t it why it has been so far
30:20
under the radar screen I think you know
30:22
there are men