Norman Finkelstein: Was Obama an Intellectual Fraud?

to just
09:15
just let me enter a footnote but just in
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a site
09:20
it was very interesting to watch who
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pulled it off
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when he establishes his first campaign
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team
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it’s proof axelrod and gibbs
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they’re all white
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then
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he assembles the team of writers
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he has eight writers
09:39
and lyd makes the point
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they’re all white males
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it’s very striking wouldn’t it strike
09:48
you
09:50
yes it has
09:52
of eight writers
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eight
09:56
including
09:57
around three who just did comedy
09:59
sketches because he was going on like
10:02
you know the
10:03
washington press club comedy night you
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know
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he couldn’t find one black writer
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through comedy yeah i think that was a
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really interesting point that you made
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that apparently none of the black
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comedians kind of passed muster to join
10:16
to join the team and yes it’s something
10:18
that i you know people have commented on
10:20
and that you know as i listen to
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the kind of
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crooked media
10:25
podcast
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family
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where a whole lot of people are have
10:30
very lucrative careers now as the host
10:32
of positive america etc because they
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were his speech writers
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and thinking about
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how none of those opportunities befall
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any any black people or any women in
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part because that’s not who barack obama
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to keep around him and put words in his
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mouth it’s really striking in his inner
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circle there were two blacks
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valerie jarrett
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who for all intents and purposes might
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as well have been white well why do you
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say that professor finkelstein well
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first of all
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valerie jarrett just physically let’s
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start with the physically okay but
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that’s but never how race operates in
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america okay okay let’s start there and
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then say finish there
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when her child was
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born
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the hospital administrator put the child
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down as white
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i went to law school with her child in
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fact actually
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one of the most notable moments of i was
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very quiet one all year she was a year
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or two ahead of me and one of the most
11:29
notable moments of my 1l experience was
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a
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professor feldman who’s in the news for
11:33
other reasons not so charmingly right
11:36
now uh called on her and called her mrs
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gray which is about the biggest
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impression i ever made on anybody in
11:41
that class
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so
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and she grew up
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and actually her her mother when her
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mother
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gave birth to her the administrator put
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down white so just at that level at that
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level but you’re right it’s that’s you
11:59
can call it a trivial level because we
12:01
have the one drop rule
12:03
in the united states okay correct she
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she had nothing to do with black people
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why do you say that well because she was
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the mascot for richard daley
12:14
when richard daley when she when the
12:16
richard daley administration came along
12:18
in chicago he appointed her on every
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board
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she was the head of the chicago housing
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authority she was the head of the
12:25
chicago transit authority she was the
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the head of the the chair of the stock
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exchange they just used her for
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everything when she was the head of then
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she became part of this habitat company
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a private public um co-op cooperative
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she was
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she was a one-person gentrification
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machine so i think
12:48
all the black neighborhoods chicago but
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that’s different
12:52
when i challenged the idea that you said
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quote you know she has nothing to do
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with black people but that’s those are
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this is this is the thing you know i i
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all i do is sit around critiquing
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identity politics
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but there’s a
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but it’s a very
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when she is the only representative of
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black people in his inner circle
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she is the only one except for reggie
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love right i understand that but you
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can’t that is not the same thing the
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problem with valerie jarrett is that she
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doesn’t have good politics that connect
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with what the bulk of black voters want
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and need not because she’s light-skinned
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right that’s not the issue and not
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because of what her personal connection
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is no and it’s also not because you said
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she has nothing to do with black people
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i know nothing about her personal life
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who she hangs out with how she grew up
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or how much she has anything to do with
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black people so what i’m i’m not
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disagreeing with the substance of your
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critique of valerie jarrett but i’m just
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cautioning you to be careful especially
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since you aren’t black frankly something
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that that’s who he chose
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it’s right something
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if the leading intellect black
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intellectual in the united states is i
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think clearly hands down is cornell west
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and it’s very striking that obama
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couldn’t find any place for cornell west
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in his administration that tells me
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something
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it tells me something but he finds a
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place from valerie jarrett and the only
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other person is reggie love and reggie
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love it was just
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he was the gopher
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oh obama wants an exotic meal can you
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get it for him obama needs a new pair of
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shoes can you get it for him that’s how
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reggie loved it i actually i i liked
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reggie loves memoir because he didn’t
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give
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he used a memoir to talk about himself
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which i i kind of like even though of
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course there’s the praise for obama but
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it tells you something i don’t know why
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you wouldn’t want to see that
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that the people i don’t need
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i don’t think that you are hearing what
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my criticism is
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does it bother you that does it bother
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you
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that valerie jarrett sings the praises
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of al sharpton
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yes that is a substantive critique of
15:06
valerie jarrett valerie jarrett being
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light skinned her daughter being
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perceived as white as a kid it derails
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the rest of your argument that’s the
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point i’m trying to make
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it’s not helpful no i’m i’m telling you
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i’m telling you as someone who is
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sympathetic to your argument and who is
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perhaps the
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person outside of
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the reeds who has written most critique
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of identity politics on the left that
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there are aspects of what is written
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here that even alienate me and force me
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into a defensive posture that is
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unnecessary
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and you cannot you cannot you can choose
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not to care professor finkelstein that’s
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completely you’re right but we we could
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be talking about
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we could be talking about the
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substantive things that we agree with
15:53
but we keep getting derailed because of
15:56
these kind of assigns that do wait i’m
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sorry if i could just finish the
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sentence
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that do open you up to i think
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legitimate criticism that this isn’t
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about the substance but it’s about a
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personal animus for barack obama and i
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personally don’t have a personal animus
16:12
barack obama beyond the extent to which
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he has failed to stand up for the
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promises that he made to the american
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people who are suffering
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at a historic level right now and
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particularly because he’s a black person
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who traded on
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his blackness in order to convince
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people without a lot of substance as
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you’ve written so persuasively
16:30
to invest in him and to trust him with
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the future and the fate of the most
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historically marginal you know one of
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the most historically marginalized
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groups in this country that is my beef
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with barack obama but when you say
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things like i don’t find him interesting
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that’s fine you don’t have to i
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personally find him to be very
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interesting and deeply compelling and i
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i mean like the whole phenomenon i find
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to be fascinating
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but the i it begs the question you know
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why is it relevant whether you find them
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interesting and i find them just
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uninteresting i said i don’t think it’s
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relevant but it comes up you end up you
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said it i didn’t say it you said it and
17:06
those kinds of asides and those frogs
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and detours i would put to you i would
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put to you
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set you up to be written off and set all
17:14
of your critique to be written off
17:16
as a personal vendetta as opposed to a
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substantive analysis which i think is
17:21
very much here and that’s all that i it
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is that i’m flagging
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because
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um
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i don’t like
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identity politics
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why not
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why
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yeah i mean i don’t either but i want to
17:36
hear i’m interested in hearing
17:38
your
17:38
analysis because
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i know enough young people
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not from the elite schools
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but
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young people who are
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struggling
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very hard
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now
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i had a wonderful life
17:58
not in terms of professional success
18:01
but enable
18:03
in terms of being able to do with my
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life
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what i wanted to do
18:08
you set a goal as a child a youth
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and then you
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are able to realize it
18:16
i had a friend richard herskowitz
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he loved film
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he became a film uh impresario festivals
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organizing festivals
18:26
larry spivak he was in the school band
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the orchestra leader
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he became the leader of the greenwich
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orchestra
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then there’s the whole slew who became
18:37
doctors
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that was their goal and there were quite
18:40
a few just money in wall street
18:43
this generation
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they
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it’s the very rare person outside the 20
18:52
the 20 will make it
18:54
the 80
18:55
who i know
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they’re not going to see anything in
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their lives it’s very hard for me to
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tell them that
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i um
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often they’re asking me what do you
19:05
think i should do where do you think i
19:07
should go
19:08
i don’t even know what to counsel
19:09
anymore
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because i don’t see any prospects at all
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so
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to me
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this identity politics
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it’s a complete and total
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diversion
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from anything meaningful
19:29
and substantive
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for the young people i know who are poor
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who live four to a room
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in new york
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or four to an apartment in new york
19:43
who struggle each month
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to make the rent
19:48
who keep down
19:50
three dead end jobs
19:53
with no job security no vacation no sick
19:57
benefits nothing nothing
20:00
and then
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juxtaposed to that
20:04
is this idiotic
20:06
identity politics
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which
20:10
so far as
20:12
the young people i know
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has absolutely no meaning
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no
20:18
substance
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whatsoever
20:22
so i just want to make sure i understand
20:24
what you’re really
20:25
one last thought sure
20:27
it was very striking to me
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the
20:32
juxtaposition of the obama campaign
20:37
with the bernie campaign
20:39
the obama campaign was just
20:42
elect obama it was just all focused on
20:46
electing this person president
20:49
the bernie campaign
20:51
was entirely focused on his platform
20:55
everybody the moment he thought bernie
20:58
you thought first medicare for all
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student debt
21:03
abolish tuition
21:05
jobs
21:06
and infrastructure
21:08
it was an identity politics campaign
21:12
juxtaposed against
21:15
a class politics
21:17
it was a very in my opinion
21:21
a very striking juxtaposition
21:25
most people like bernie not because they
21:27
had any particular
21:29
affection for him
21:31
but because they trusted him they knew
21:33
this guy’s been in politics for 40 years
21:35
he’s been saying the same thing since
21:37
the 1970s
21:39
so they figured okay the guy is the real
21:41
thing he’s the real deal uh that’s the
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kind of politics
21:46
that’s always interested me
21:50
i care i care about the fate of humanity
21:53
i do
21:54
i don’t much care about abram x candies
21:57
um
21:59
hair
22:01
it doesn’t much interest me
22:04
is uh
22:06
these are fashion shows
22:08
this is not scholarship
22:10
it’s not politics
22:13
it’s
22:14
tamika mallory doing cadillac
22:17
commercials
22:19
it’s
22:20
patrice coolers
22:23
buying her four homes and then taking
22:25
the money and run
22:28
it’s also
22:30
beyond the scam
22:33
it’s really destructive
22:37
i was out every night
22:39
during the george floyd demonstrations i
22:41
was the only one over there was nobody
22:44
over
22:44
[Music]
22:45
there was literally over 30 at the
22:47
demonstrations because it was jaren
22:48
covert
22:50
so i was the only one
22:53
not for my age cohort
22:55
for four decades
22:58
after 35
22:59
three decades
23:01
and what was most striking to me
23:03
a veteran as it were of demonstrations
23:08
i had never seen
23:10
such anger among the whites the young
23:12
white people
23:15
it was not this kind of no bless oblige
23:18
solidarity with black people no
23:21
it was solidarity
23:23
however
23:25
it was we’re all in this together
23:29
and it was very striking
23:31
let’s say the
23:32
uh barclays center
23:35
which is the big center in downtown
23:37
brooklyn
23:38
here were the cops lined up
23:41
and here were
23:42
the demonstrators
23:45
and
23:46
there would be the white women
23:49
and there was such a fierce
23:52
anger
23:54
they were screaming it was not the most
23:56
sophisticated
23:58
of the of slogans they were shouting
24:00
nypd sucked my dick nyc
24:04
so angry
24:07
and
24:08
you you could see
24:10
it was the rage against the machine
24:14
that the police were the symbols
24:16
of this whole
24:18
system
24:21
that left them with no future
24:24
a futureless future
24:26
and there was real potential there
24:29
it was real
24:31
black and white
24:33
solidarity
24:35
as i had never before seen it
24:38
and it was very
24:40
inspiring
24:42
to see it because it wasn’t fake it
24:43
wasn’t the martha’s vineyard
24:47
it wasn’t performing
24:48
it was real
24:50
because a lot of these kids you know how
24:52
do you find a place in new york there
24:54
are three people they need a roommate
24:57
so a person comes along they randomly
24:59
choose them there is like a co-op
25:01
screening you know what i mean
25:03
so you have
25:05
every different type living together
25:08
a black person a white person a gay
25:10
person the trans person through living
25:12
together
25:13
there was a real sense of
25:15
community there you know recognition
25:17
that blacks are getting shafted more
25:19
than
25:19
everybody else but we’re all getting
25:22
shafted by this system
25:24
and the identity politics wrecks all
25:27
that it destroys it
25:30
by
25:31
by
25:32
balkanizing
25:34
the
25:36
solidarity
25:37
creating this competitiveness
25:40
who is the most oppressed
25:43
among the group
25:45
who should get bumped to the head of the
25:47
queue
25:48
it’s such a destructive
25:51
politics
25:52
i was a maoist
25:54
in my youth i made many errors
25:57
i’m perfectly willing to
26:00
acknowledge them
26:02
but there are things about that period
26:04
that i look back and they make sense
26:07
mao’s famous slogan was unite the many
26:09
to defeat the few
26:12
unite the many to defeat the few
26:15
the slogan of identity politics is
26:18
disunite the many to enable the few
26:21
to create enough divisions
26:23
fragmentations
26:25
and so forth
26:27
uh it’s a very destructive
26:30
and at the end of course the whole
26:32
identity politics in the george floyd
26:34
demonstrations what do they what
26:36
happened instead of putting forth a
26:39
slogan which could have united people
26:41
the obvious slogan was
26:43
justice meaning justice against the cops
26:45
and jobs because all these people don’t
26:47
have work
26:49
instead of justice and jobs
26:51
it came to
26:52
pummeling
26:54
statues of
26:55
whomever they were pulling down
26:58
and if you were if you attended those
27:00
demonstrations i don’t know if you did
27:03
by the third week the first week it was
27:06
50 50 50 black 50 not black
27:11
by the third week it was about 80 10 80
27:15
white
27:16
the black people sort of
27:18
it wasn’t going anywhere and they
27:20
started to disappear
27:22
and then the whole craziness with the
27:24
statues started
27:26
and then the whole thing just fizzled
27:27
out
27:29
i had there right well i think that the
27:30
i mean there’s a lot to be said about
27:32
those protests and we’ve said some of it
27:33
on the show i would dispute that it
27:35
fizzled out i think that there were a
27:36
lot of things that happened there was
27:38
the media turned on the protests and
27:41
started characterizing them
27:43
as kind of unhinged and violent and that
27:46
the ongoing protests were direct
27:49
um
27:50
there was going to be a direct trade-off
27:51
between the george floyd
27:54
movement policing movement
27:56
and
27:58
joe biden’s electoral chances and that
28:00
deflated some energy out of it and there
28:02
was an unwillingness of figureheads as
28:04
you’ve pointed to to actually stick that
28:06
landing and create any real use it for
28:09
any real leverage in an electoral
28:10
context in the middle of a journal
28:12
election and there was a lot of there
28:13
was a lot going on there
28:15
but um i want to bring this back uh
28:18
to
28:19
the subject to hand and ask you then
28:23
in a broader critique of identity
28:24
politics why is it that you felt the
28:27
need to write a chapter on barack obama
28:30
especially if to your point the younger
28:32
generations let’s say the under 40 crowd
28:35
is pretty woke and hip to
28:38
the
28:39
failures of obama
28:42
and doesn’t need need the pitch who who
28:44
is this who is this for hey youtube
28:47
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