One-State Solution with Jeff Halper & Update From Bethlehem w/ Yumna Patel

19:53
you know israel is uh israel uh
19:57
you know look israel stuck it’s it’s
19:59
stuck and it isn’t stuck in the sense
20:01
uh it’s stuck in that there is no
20:03
political
20:05
solution i mean what yumna and the
20:07
palestinians talk about liberation
20:09
is obviously unacceptable to zionism
20:12
and to and to israel israel has the
20:16
opposite
20:16
point of view and that is of course that
20:19
because zionism we have to understand
20:21
this is really important for everything
20:22
to understand what’s happening
20:24
yesterday um is that zionism was a
20:27
settler colonial movement
20:30
you know this isn’t the conflict when
20:32
you talk about we always talk about the
20:34
israeli palestinian conflict
20:36
with the israeli every it’s not a
20:37
conflict conflict has two sides
20:40
and they’re roughly symmetrical when
20:42
they fight with each other and the way
20:43
you get out of a conflict is you
20:45
compromise
20:46
and negotiate and you find some kind of
20:48
of a peace
20:50
but settler colonialism like zionism is
20:54
uh is unilateral there are there are no
20:57
natives there are no palestinians they
20:59
have no rights
21:00
israel until today has never recognized
21:03
the existence of the palestinian people
21:05
let alone their national rights
21:06
and the whole point of zionism the whole
21:09
point of the last 125 years
21:11
has been to judaize palestine
21:14
in other words to transform an arab
21:17
country into a jewish country
21:19
transform palestine into the land of
21:21
israel and that’s
21:22
that’s that goes all the way through so
21:24
there is no political process
21:27
there’s no uh you know when people are
21:29
saying okay now what
21:31
you know with the ceasefire can we now
21:33
renew negotiations what about the true
21:35
state idea where does biden come in
21:37
all that you know israel is has no
21:39
interest in any of that
21:41
so what is what’s israel’s plan israel’s
21:44
plan
21:45
is a low-intensity conflict
21:48
low-intensity warfare in other words the
21:51
idea being
21:52
already sorry one second can you i think
21:54
you’re touching the la
21:55
your laptop or something i just want to
21:57
make the sound as good as possible
21:58
okay keep going you’re jewish so you
22:01
move your hands it’s not your fault okay
22:03
just one more sentence simply the idea
22:06
that we can manage the palestinians
22:08
that they’re manageable you know the
22:10
conflict can be at a low
22:12
at a very low level that really doesn’t
22:14
affect israelis
22:16
personal security uh and once in a while
22:18
there’ll be a flare-up
22:20
like in gaza okay but but that that’s
22:23
tolerable i mean israel lost
22:25
the palestinians lost 260 people
22:27
something like that
22:28
the israeli side lost 10 which is
22:31
completely acceptable
22:33
if you want to put it in that in that
22:34
sense for israelis
22:36
and so they have no motivation to get
22:38
into political negotiations there’s no
22:40
international pressure for political
22:41
negotiations
22:43
and it can’t get into political
22:44
negotiations because it wants the entire
22:47
country it has nothing to negotiate
22:49
and that’s the situation that we all
22:51
have to begin to deal with i think
22:54
and so what is okay uh you know anything
22:57
you want to add on that by the way
22:58
sorry no i mean i’ve just been nodding
23:01
my head the whole time because i
23:03
i mean first of all it’s interesting to
23:04
me to see um
23:06
you know the perspectives from someone
23:08
inside israel but yeah
23:10
everything that that jeff has said is
23:13
completely
23:14
completely true and is something that
23:15
people need to to keep in mind when
23:18
when framing what’s happening and when
23:20
when approaching the the situation
23:22
here yeah um yeah i mean
23:25
it’s it’s interesting that what you said
23:26
jeff where it’s like
23:28
and let me i’m sorry i cut you off right
23:30
as you were rounding up your fin you’re
23:32
like your final point so you want can
23:33
you say that again since i cut it off to
23:35
try to get the sound better were you
23:36
basically saying
23:37
um they want to manage them can you just
23:39
say that again
23:41
yeah that israel israel’s strategy is
23:45
to manage the palestinians in other
23:46
words to keep
23:49
the conflict if you want to say a
23:50
conflict
23:52
under the radar the deal i think between
23:55
israel and europe and the west and
23:57
the international community is that
24:01
as long as israel keeps the lid on as
24:04
long as it doesn’t disrupt the region
24:07
as long as it doesn’t lead to wars all
24:08
the time as long as it keeps things more
24:10
or less manageable
24:13
it’s fine in other words biden or the
24:16
europeans or
24:17
nobody wants to expend the political
24:20
capital
24:21
they would have to expend in order to
24:23
really force israel
24:25
back and i mean the whole idea of a
24:26
two-state solution is ridiculous
24:28
right it’s always been ridiculous
24:30
nobody’s gonna
24:31
expend that capital you see and israel
24:33
knows it and israel knows there’ll be no
24:35
sanctions it can violate human rights
24:38
and international law with impunity
24:40
because it knows there’s no sanctions
24:42
because the only
24:43
instrument of sanctions that the
24:44
international community has is a
24:46
security council
24:47
and the united states isn’t going to
24:48
allow that we saw that the united states
24:50
vetoed three
24:51
security council resolutions trying to
24:53
end this uh
24:54
thing this last week so israel’s in a
24:57
kind of a safe zone
24:58
it can do anything it wants to to the
25:01
palestinians basically
25:03
and continuous its process as long as
25:07
again it keeps it manageable it isn’t to
25:09
doesn’t appear too oppressive
25:11
that’s where it crossed the line last
25:13
week that it didn’t mean to cross
25:15
i don’t think israel anticipated the
25:17
hamas attack
25:19
so that was that was a miscalculation it
25:22
crossed that line but usually
25:24
it stops before that line so it keeps
25:26
everything kind of simmering
25:28
at an acceptable level so the
25:30
international community doesn’t feel
25:31
that it has to
25:32
intervene right and so the acceptable
25:35
level is your more kind of mundane
25:38
violence that is standard
25:41
um in other words just so people know
25:43
and i’m i’m i’m sure that people
25:44
watching this stream know but it’s not
25:46
jeff isn’t saying like there isn’t
25:48
violence and it’s
25:49
everything is like you know tutti frutti
25:51
or whatever uh
25:52
everything is cool until these things
25:55
happen it’s like there’s constant
25:56
consistent
25:57
violence and then it just becomes
25:59
newsworthy
26:01
international newsworthy violence of
26:02
course it’s always
26:04
should be international newsworthy
26:05
violence but it’s you know chomsky talks
26:07
about it yes but
26:08
worthy but as long as israel keeps it
26:12
within the framework of
26:13
terrorism right in other words israel
26:16
has criminalized palestinian resistance
26:20
you know so that it’s no law it’s not a
26:21
resistance it’s not a liberation
26:23
movement
26:24
right as luna calls it which it is it’s
26:26
not a liberation movement
26:28
it’s a uh you know because what settler
26:32
colonialism does
26:33
people i i just wrote a book by the way
26:35
if i want to yes which i am israel
26:38
liberating palestine
26:40
where i really get it because settler
26:41
colonialism is a very powerful analysis
26:45
that’s in the academic community but it
26:48
hasn’t quite yet gotten
26:49
out to the wider public because it
26:51
sounds very academic right it is
26:52
epidemic
26:53
yeah basically what settler colonialism
26:56
says
26:57
is that um uh is that
27:00
uh you know again it’s it’s a zero sum
27:04
it’s a zero zero-sum sort of a sort of a
27:06
thing so that
27:07
um the uh
27:11
you know it’s not a conflict and that’s
27:13
where really going back to what i was
27:15
talking about before
27:16
if you understand the settler colonial
27:18
idea you’ll understand
27:20
that that it’s its goal is not only to
27:23
judaize
27:24
and and make this country jewish
27:27
but that be perceived as jewish you see
27:30
so when you’re sitting in new york
27:32
or london or wherever you are and you
27:34
think of israel
27:35
when you think of this part of the world
27:37
you think of israel and israel is jewish
27:40
and now we’re just in the eurovision
27:42
phone
27:43
eurovision song contest you see so
27:47
israel
27:47
is i mean israel is in the eurovision
27:49
song contest not palestine
27:51
oh yeah right see so that you begin to
27:53
normalize things
27:54
and then when you have palestinian
27:56
resistance there’s no context
27:59
because there’s no there’s no politic
28:01
you’ve de-politicized you see
28:03
so palestinian resistance comes out as
28:06
violence
28:08
see hamas throwing rocks israel has a
28:10
right to defend itself
28:11
that makes sense if you have no
28:14
political context
28:16
if israel’s a normal country of israel’s
28:18
nebraska
28:20
we’re all hanging around in omaha having
28:22
a cup of coffee and all of a sudden
28:23
people from kansas start throwing
28:25
rockets at us
28:26
you’re right that’s you know it’s crazy
28:29
it’s it’s just
28:30
violence out of nowhere but if you have
28:33
this political perspective that yuma
28:35
certainly is trying in and palestinians
28:37
are trying and i’m trying to introduce
28:40
that goes back to the idea of celebr why
28:42
center colonialism because
28:44
that tells you the logic of what’s
28:46
happening
28:47
unless you get the logic you can’t
28:49
understand each particular event
28:51
try to explain every event by itself
28:53
doesn’t make any sense to people
28:55
that’s that’s always been our problem
28:58
we’ve never given people a really good
29:00
coherent framework
29:02
on which they can begin to approach this
29:04
whole issue
29:05
and begin to understand the palestinian
29:07
logical resistance
29:09
but israel has done that very well you
29:11
see husba
29:13
which is propaganda is very good and
29:15
they prevent
29:16
present a very compelling you know
29:19
case that makes sense yeah
29:23
um and have your opinion
29:26
have your um i want to ask both of you
29:29
has your have your perspectives on this
29:31
changed
29:31
like recently um i know you’ve been
29:34
there jeff
29:35
since the for decades um
29:38
by the way jeff’s training is as an
29:40
anthropologist and i remember you saying
29:41
jeff when i first
29:42
when i interviewed you years and years
29:44
ago you wanted to go work somewhere as
29:46
an anthropologist but you didn’t want to
29:48
go
29:49
you kind of felt like israel as
29:51
problematic as it
29:52
was it was different you know it’s funny
29:55
i i should let you put explain it but
29:58
the way i
29:58
remember thinking of it when you told me
30:01
to me you were like i don’t want to go
30:02
to kenya
30:03
um and be like a white jewish guy in
30:05
kenya
30:06
um but if i israel i can be a jewish
30:09
white jewish guy in israel
30:11
and like you were at least potentially
30:14
infiltrating
30:15
that’s how i viewed it you probably what
30:17
i call myself in my book
30:18
is a settler who refuses okay yeah
30:22
and that’s that’s there’s a certain
30:25
status in there
30:26
it’s a political place a space that i
30:29
can begin to work out of with my
30:30
palestinian
30:32
colleagues that’s not a space i would
30:34
have had in kenya i would have been yeah
30:36
a settler for you know
30:39
with no context whatsoever right
30:43
um and and yoona you obviously are have
30:46
different identification and role but um
30:49
what did what made you want to go to
30:51
report in this region and has your view
30:54
changed
30:54
since being there yeah and i’d first
30:57
just like to comment on
30:58
what jeff just said and i think it’s a
31:00
huge issue at least with what i’ve been
31:02
seeing in
31:02
the discourse specifically maybe
31:04
surrounding certain israeli
31:06
like members of the israeli left or
31:09
people who consider themselves to be
31:11
you know liberal zionists even is that
31:15
people in those circles cannot come to
31:19
terms with zionism as a subtle or
31:22
colonial ideology and cannot come to the
31:24
terms
31:24
with themselves being settlers and
31:28
come to the terms with the fact that
31:30
they have also
31:32
um contributed in some way or they have
31:35
benefited from the system of oppression
31:37
that has
31:38
dispossessed and continued to dispossess
31:40
palestinians so
31:41
i just think it’s um really great that
31:44
you know jeff is you know taking that
31:47
position and acknowledging that and i
31:49
think that’s something that
31:50
if at least within um those certain
31:53
you know progressive or liberal circles
31:55
that that’s what needs to happen if we
31:57
want to move the needle forward but
31:58
anyways in in
32:00
response to what you were asking about
32:01
me i mean i was always interested in
32:03
palestine
32:04
since i was young i grew up in a muslim
32:06
household so it was interesting
32:07
sort of my journey to palestine i think
32:09
was a little different i always always
32:11
learned about palestine in jerusalem and
32:13
al-aqsa specifically just from a
32:15
religious perspective because
32:16
obviously it’s very important to muslims
32:18
it’s the third holiest site in islam
32:20
i have lots of palestinian friends
32:22
growing up so i knew what palestine
32:24
palestine was i knew that i cared about
32:26
it i knew
32:27
that what was that there were great
32:29
injustices that were happening in
32:30
palestine
32:31
but i only truly um sort of came to
32:34
terms with
32:35
first of all that i should care i
32:37
shouldn’t care about this
32:40
as a religious issue i should care about
32:41
this you know as a human rights issue
32:43
and as a political issue
32:44
um when i took my first trip to
32:46
palestine when i was in college and then
32:48
you know continued to come back here
32:49
subsequently after that
32:51
um and i think that
32:54
just speaks to kind of the current
32:56
moment that we’ve been seeing um
32:58
sort of with the censorship of of people
33:01
um who are speaking up about palestine
33:03
on social media
33:04
um censorship within the industry within
33:07
you know the journalism industry of
33:08
anyone who um
33:10
takes a stance on palestine is
33:13
is is suppressed to some degree in
33:15
another you you know you risk you
33:16
losing your job um and i think it’s
33:20
my journey to palestine is what also
33:22
journeyed um influenced my journey
33:25
in in journalism and into journalism and
33:28
um we were always taught you know in in
33:30
journalism school and
33:31
sort of within the industry of you know
33:33
you can never take a stance you can
33:35
never state your opinion you can never
33:36
sort of take a moral stance on an issue
33:38
because somehow
33:40
that um negatively affects
33:44
you know might negatively affect your
33:45
journalism but i think that
33:47
um in issues like this it’s you know
33:50
actually the opposite
33:51
um you know taking a stance on palestine
33:54
actually
33:55
um you know supporting you know
33:57
palestinian human rights and and the
33:59
palestinian freedom for liberation
34:01
um makes you can can make you a better
34:05
journalist and
34:06
and help you um look at everything you
34:10
know all different subjects not just
34:11
palestine with with a more critical lens
34:13
a more critical lens than one that we’re
34:16
taught to look at things with
34:20
did you guys see i don’t know if you saw
34:21
this but there was a something going
34:22
kind of viral
34:23
uh i’m looking for the actual tweet but
34:25
there is a
34:27
um uh cnn correspondent jerusalem
34:31
i guess cnn jerusalem based
34:33
correspondent um
34:34
posted hadas gold did you see this hold
34:37
on let me
34:38
um let me just share this uh
34:41
she share she tweeted this out um
34:44
her baby cousin going to the army yeah
34:46
so uh and i tweeted
34:48
the this should be your chiron but still
34:49
hear her here she is hadas gold
34:52
sienna’s jerusalem correspondent send me
34:53
tacos okay i don’t know how
34:55
they would last um depend it probably
34:58
wouldn’t even get through the uh
34:59
you know you couldn’t even send them
35:00
from gaza definitely could not send them
35:02
from gaza okay
35:03
so if you’re not in gaza send her tacos
35:06
um
35:07
and then she had tweeted my baby cousin
35:09
entered the israeli army today
35:11
and it has um a
35:15
it looks kind of like an elf i don’t
35:17
know how to describe it but uh it’s i
35:19
guess her baby cousin
35:20
in a in her all green outfit looking
35:22
kind of like a disney character
35:25
um and so there’s some pushback for that
35:28
for i mean kind of obvious reasons but
35:30
and then there was some push back to the
35:31
pushback because people were saying it
35:33
was
35:34
anti-semitic to uh and pushing the dual
35:37
loyalty
35:38
uh trope which i did see someone and
35:40
talk about in the chat so let’s let’s
35:41
not do the dual loyalty thing by the way
35:43
guys we can get to that in a second
35:45
um but the problem here is and it but
35:48
because
35:49
it does become complicated because like
35:52
service is compulsory right or you can
35:54
be refused that can go to jail which
35:56
like much praise to people do that but
35:59
the issue here is that like
36:00
kids did there you go so oh we’re gonna
36:03
have to we’re gonna have
36:04
but i don’t think you put it on a cake
36:06
right you didn’t give
36:08
or if you put them on cakes but like it
36:10
is it’s it’s i mean
36:12
the issue here is that she celebrated it
36:15
i think personally
36:17
um i’m actually not exactly sure how to
36:19
talk about it because as
36:20
adam johnson from the show pointed out
36:22
on twitter you know
36:24
his standard is like if people are you
36:27
kind of have to
36:28
look at people then from the u.s when
36:31
they have relatives
36:32
who are serving anyway that’s
36:35
that’s another kind of side issue but i
36:38
thought it was interesting but
36:40
um yeah you know yeah i think the
36:43
interesting thing also because we saw
36:45
with
36:45
you know ap violet firing
36:48
emily wilder right for her
36:52
involvement in sjp when or you know
36:55
tweeting about
36:57
things relating to palestine et cetera
36:59
when she was in college it’s like
37:01
um so many and we saw you know with
37:04
cnn’s firing of mark lamont hill and
37:05
reyes aslan and all these other people
37:07
who have spoken
37:08
up about palestine well it’s like
37:09
objectivity
37:11
or is is only an issue
37:14
um when it when it comes to palestine or
37:16
conflicts of interest
37:18
seem to only be an issue when it comes
37:20
to people speaking about palestine human
37:21
rights it’s not a conflict of interest
37:23
that cnn’s jerusalem correspondent is
37:26
celebrating the fact that
37:27
she has family members in the idf it’s
37:29
not a conflict of interest for the new
37:30
york times that all of their bureau
37:32
chiefs
37:33
live in a house of palestinians who were
37:36
live in the a stolen house of
37:38
palestinians who were kicked out during
37:39
the neckbah
37:40
right that’s not a conflict of interest
37:42
and that you know several
37:44
new york bureau chiefs or you know
37:45
correspondents in the region have
37:47
children in the israeli army like those
37:49
aren’t conflicts of interest but it’s
37:50
suddenly a conflict of interest when
37:52
someone
37:53
um has the audacity to speak up
37:56
for the basic human rights of
37:59
palestinians
38:00
and obviously we know that this double
38:01
standard exists everybody who’s been
38:03
talking about palestine anyone who’s
38:05
been somewhat involved in you know
38:08
the palestinian cause knows that knows
38:11
this as a fact
38:12
this has been a reality for so many
38:14
years but it’s just
38:16
it continued i mean i guess i
38:19
just because of how ridiculous it is i
38:21
guess they just dumbfounded every single
38:22
time
38:23
by the way to something yumna was
38:26
talking about before
38:28
on the israeli news uh
38:31
spokespeople for the israeli government
38:33
were very proud of the fact that yes
38:36
they turned to twitter and facebook
38:39
and instagram and other social media
38:42
to get pro or what they called it
38:45
anti-israeli propaganda
38:47
removed right so you know this isn’t
38:50
just something i mean yuma you
38:52
are sort of the victim of it and you
38:54
really didn’t know it was hap but in
38:55
fact i mean the israeli government says
38:57
this
38:57
yes we actually turned to these
39:00
companies
39:01
and they said twitter removed 89
39:04
of the content that israel asked them to
39:07
remove that had to do with palestine
39:09
89 and instagram 80 some percent
39:14
so that that’s it isn’t that there’s
39:16
algorithms out there
39:18
or there’s some whatever yeah what’s
39:20
happening is the israeli government is
39:22
in contact with
39:24
uh these companies that you know the two
39:26
people that are on the facebook
39:29
committee that decides on uh on what
39:32
should be up on facebook or not our
39:33
israelis
39:34
so that you know there’s a rare very
39:37
conscious
39:38
political tie between the israeli
39:41
government
39:42
and these companies okay
39:46
um i also wanted to ask you guys about
39:49
um
39:51
uh well jeff this is actually i can i
39:53
can ask just so you have a question i
39:54
would like
39:55
actually i’d like to ask both of you i i
39:57
you may find this silly
39:58
but the other day i made fun of deborah
40:00
messing um
40:02
because she posted some very stupid
40:04
tweets
40:05
but i actually think it would be a good
40:07
idea and
40:08
max blumenthal and i kind of had a
40:10
really and leslie lee had a lot of fun
40:13
uh like debunking some of her talk of
40:16
the talking points that she was
40:17
obviously spreading
40:18
but we didn’t but there’s actually i
40:19
think really serious things to get into
40:22
um really serious your talking points
40:24
that we should
40:25
get into um yeah
40:29
you guys would be willing to do that um
40:33
one second sorry where is this it’s by
40:36
this
40:36
stand what does it stand together some
40:39
organization that’s like
40:40
stand with us stand with us probably
40:43
that’s a very
40:44
yeah they’re very right-wing yeah
40:46
supported by the jewish establishment
40:48
right yeah so they’re really i mean
40:50
they’re really good at this stuff right
40:52
like god i hate
40:53
i hate that there’s stuff that makes me
40:55
sound like an anti-semite
40:57
but they are they’re good they’re this
40:58
has nothing to do with being jewish or
41:00
anything
41:00
this has to in fact you know you know
41:02
the person who really like woke me up to
41:04
the fact that jews are not responsible
41:05
for
41:06
israel which doesn’t mean we shouldn’t
41:07
be saying not in our name and stuff
41:09
because they obviously tried to
41:10
weaponize us but was ali abu nima he was
41:13
like jews are not
41:14
is israelis like right so um
41:18
yes so one second i’m just trying to
41:20
find while you’re looking at this client
41:21
another point of course yes uh because
41:24
we’re gonna
41:25
talk a little bit about the one state
41:26
idea and that is you know
41:29
and this is where i we have to go beyond
41:31
talking about liberation
41:32
liberation is important i mean the the
41:35
title of my book is liberating palestine
41:38
it is liberal but the question is what
41:39
do we mean by liberation right
41:41
and the palestinians have to define
41:45
in the end what the struggle is what
41:47
liberation means
41:49
and we have to follow the palestinians i
41:51
mean we
41:52
critical israelis and of course the
41:54
international community that can be
41:56
mobilized by them
41:57
and until today there isn’t a strong
42:01
coherent
42:02
voice about where are we going there’s
42:04
no leadership coming from the
42:06
palestinians
42:06
and that’s a problem so i’m involved
42:10
with a palestinian-led initiative that’s
42:12
just beginning to get off the ground
42:15
it’s called the one democratic state
42:17
campaign
42:18
and i tried to have a palestinian
42:20
counterpart on the show i just want
42:22
people to know
42:22
but he’s sick yeah right
42:26
i’m leveling uh centering come on i mean
42:30
that won’t be a problem they’ll be happy
42:31
they’re happy to come on but you can see
42:34
under my
42:34
name it’s a onestatecampaign.org is our
42:37
website
42:38
and one of the things we’ve done over
42:39
the last couple of years palestinians
42:41
and israelis together
42:43
is to really formulate a very detailed
42:46
and i think a very solid
42:48
10-point political program now whether
42:51
this is the political program or not
42:53
that’s i mean i’m not trying to say that
42:55
this is the solution
42:56
but what i’m trying to say is that this
42:58
has to be done this work has to be done
43:01
there has to be political work led by
43:03
palestinians
43:04
to define what is our political program
43:07
because without a political program
43:09
without an end game
43:10
right everybody’s left hanging we can’t
43:14
represent palestinians
43:16
now i can’t tell them one state two
43:18
states ten states do this do that it’s
43:20
not my role and certainly not your role
43:22
katie
43:23
in new york we can support the
43:24
palestinians but they have to be the
43:27
ones to lead
43:28
and this is an attempt to try to begin
43:31
to begin that process
43:32
so beyond resistance i mean you know
43:36
it’s a mixed bag because you one of the
43:38
famous slogans coming out of palestine
43:40
you see it on the wall
43:41
all over is is to exist is to resist
43:45
which is a nice idea but you then you
43:47
begin to say wait a minute is that it
43:50
yeah what about what’s beyond resistance
43:52
what are we resisting
43:53
for what are we bds’ing for
43:57
we have a whole bds campaign that isn’t
43:59
that political
44:00
the three elements of bds are not a
44:02
political program
44:04
so everybody’s you know not buying
44:06
hewlett-packard
44:08
but what are we bds’ing for what’s the
44:10
end game
44:11
in this fight against apartheid in south
44:13
africa there was
44:15
always an endgame there was one person
44:17
one vote
44:18
everybody knew that that was what we
44:20
were fighting for and the clerk would
44:22
come to mandela with all kinds of ideas
44:24
power sharing and three seats of
44:27
government and this and that
44:28
and mandela would always say no this is
44:31
our and everybody knew that this is what
44:33
we were doing
44:33
we don’t have that with palestine we
44:36
know the two-state solution is gone
44:38
but we don’t have a replacement and so i
44:41
think this
44:41
is one of the things that we’re trying
44:43
to do is work with palestinians
44:45
because unless there’s a palestinian
44:47
buy-in right to a political program and
44:49
i think
44:50
one democratic state over all of
44:52
historic palestine
44:54
with the uh with the return of refugees
44:58
of course
44:59
is the only it’s the only way out
45:00
because the only way
45:03
you end settler colonialism is through
45:05
decolonization
45:07
so in a sense israel has almost defined
45:10
for the palestinians
45:12
what the nature of the struggle is it’s
45:14
not conflict resolution it’s not
45:15
negotiations
45:17
it’s not two states we know that we know
45:19
what it isn’t
45:20
what it is is an anti-colonial movement
45:25
right so what is that so now the
45:27
palestinians have to say what does that
45:29
mean
45:30
what are our interests what do we need
45:33
how do we decolonize zionism
45:35
and how do we liberate palestine and
45:38
those are the questions and not
45:40
enough palestinians are asking those
45:42
questions today in my view at least
45:44
i’d be interested to hear what yuma has
45:46
to say about that
45:47
without putting you on the spot yeah no
45:51
that’s fine i mean these are
45:52
conversations that i see
45:53
happening in the streets with friends
45:55
with palestinians that i talk to just in
45:57
everyday life i think
45:59
um i think that it’s definitely
46:03
i think that it’s definitely a mixed bag
46:05
i think that um
46:07
they’re definitely i don’t think in what
46:09
i’ve seen of course
46:10
i can’t speak on behalf of palestinians
46:12
but in terms of what i’ve witnessed in
46:13
my reporting and speaking to people
46:15
that there is isn’t one singular
46:18
consensus
46:19
sort of on um one state solution
46:22
two-state solution etc
46:24
um but just if we’re talking about the
46:27
discourse surrounding the
46:29
one state solution just in the past
46:31
whatever five years that i’ve been here
46:34
i’ve seen actual changes from friends
46:37
from colleagues people who once
46:39
you know would nev didn’t support that
46:41
idea or were once you know sort of still
46:42
supporting the two-state solution or
46:44
something similar to that
46:45
have now sort of come moved forward to
46:48
say actually you know i don’t really
46:50
think that there’s any other viable
46:52
sort of solution other than the
46:53
one-state solution i still think that
46:56
again from what i’ve seen um it’s not
46:58
something that’s it’s not a conversation
46:59
that’s being had
47:01
in like in the palestinian mainstream in
47:03
the palestinian states i think it’s a
47:05
conversation that’s been
47:07
had a lot in palestinian academic
47:09
circles um
47:11
and you know liberal progressive your
47:13
progressive palestinian circles online
47:15
etc
47:16
but um something that a lot of people
47:18
don’t really realize is that oftentimes
47:20
the
47:21
the discourse that we see amongst you
47:23
know palestinian scholars and academics
47:25
online is very different than
47:27
the discourse that’s happening in the
47:28
streets and the camps and the cities and
47:29
the towns et cetera
47:31
so i think that it’s um
47:34
it’s it’s a concept that’s being
47:36
discussed more and more
47:37
since i’ve been here but yeah i think
47:40
it’s safe to say that
47:41
it still hasn’t really um completely you
47:44
know permeated
47:45
the mainstream and i think i i
47:47
understand where
47:49
where jeff is coming from i understand
47:52
that sort of need and it’s something
47:53
that palestinians talk about all the
47:55
time it’s like okay once we achieve
47:56
liberation then what it’s something it
47:58
was literally having this conversation
48:01
with people the other day um with some
48:03
with a group of friends and you know
48:05
mostly young palestinians
48:07
and they were they were talking about
48:08
the fact that you know okay well what
48:10
happens next if we do manage to achieve
48:12
liberation if we do manage to
48:14
sort of keep this momentum with these
48:16
uprisings and this movement going
48:17
forward what happens next we saw what
48:19
happened
48:20
in egypt we saw what happened in tunisia
48:22
we saw what happened essentially in the
48:23
arab spring with all the surrounding
48:25
countries and
48:26
um you know that didn’t necessarily have
48:29
maybe like one unified plan in place
48:33
um which which made way for you know the
48:35
current situation that we see
48:37
in in the region so those conversations
48:40
are being had
48:41
um i don’t think that i don’t think it’s
48:44
um at a lack for lack of trying i guess
48:47
at least amongst palestinians
48:48
specifically young palestinians
48:50
and i think more and more um as time
48:53
goes on as we see
48:54
international solidarity continue to
48:57
grow as we see
48:58
um movements and and sort of these
49:01
uprisings you could say that we’ve seen
49:02
in the past two weeks as they they
49:04
continue to happen
49:05
um these conversations will continue to
49:07
grow but so long as
49:09
i i get just from what i’ve i’ve seen i
49:11
get why
49:13
it’s hard you know to move past the
49:16
ex existence’s resistance for example or
49:19
the
49:19
the resistance phase of things because
49:22
that is so
49:23
very much the reality that palestinians
49:25
are entrenched in
49:26
i’m not saying that people are incapable
49:29
of you know thinking about the future
49:31
they very much are and those
49:32
conversations are very much being had
49:34
but um i think it’s completely
49:36
understandable to see
49:38
why um maybe our people are focused on
49:40
the here and now they’re focused on
49:41
the bds of now they’re focused on the
49:44
liberation of now because
49:45
they’re um ex you know
49:49
the attempt to totally
49:53
you know that the ongoing ethnic
49:55
cleansing of
49:56
of them as a people is very imminent and
49:58
it’s a constant threat
50:00
so yeah it’s hard to like work on a
50:02
charter
50:03
when you’re trying to avoid like rubble
50:06
and being bombed and like being like
50:09
shot well
50:10
you know being killed like while you’re
50:11
in your car you know i get that
50:13
as well right yeah and
50:16
anything else that you want to share
50:18
with us yuma about um
50:20
just things that i think i asked you
50:21
this last time like what you wanted to
50:23
make sure people
50:24
knew and you very helpfully provided the
50:26
context of like how we got here
50:29
um just anything else you wanted to let
50:31
people know about what it’s like living
50:33
there um do peop by the way i have a
50:35
question do people think that you’re
50:37
palestinian when they interact with you
50:40
uh
50:40
um i think that i don’t know are you
50:42
asking about if palestinians think i’m
50:44
palestinian or like non-palestinians
50:46
i mean both i think sometimes
50:49
palestinians
50:50
just because um i guess uh
50:53
because i speak arabic i think to a
50:56
relatively
50:57
um like well degree i think i speak
51:00
arabic quite well so sometimes people
51:02
might think that i have some sort of
51:04
arab background which i don’t and um so
51:06
i think people might think that oh maybe
51:08
your dad’s palestinian your mom’s spouse
51:09
needs something like that that’s
51:10
obviously it’s not the case
51:12
and then also for non-palestinians um
51:15
i think people just people might just
51:18
assume like oh well there’s
51:20
brown yeah exactly like especially for
51:22
white people they’re like oh well
51:23
there’s this brown person
51:24
like in palestine so she’s probably
51:26
palestinian right yeah
51:28
so yeah but your accent is like when
51:30
they hear your accent it’s like oh
51:32
you’re
51:32
you didn’t grow up grow you didn’t grow
51:34
up in palestine yeah i think sometimes
51:36
people might
51:37
think i’ve i’ve gotten here because
51:39
there’s so many palestinians right that
51:40
have dual citizenship right palestinian
51:42
americans and so people
51:44
might think i’m sort of fall into that
51:46
category
51:47
um yeah yeah
51:51
um but yeah so i’m just always
51:53
interested like in how people are
51:55
perceived where they are
51:56
um like uh do people ever think you’re
51:59
palestinian then they find that you’re
52:01
not like do palestinians think that
52:02
you’re palestinian then they find that
52:03
you’re not
52:04
dude like jews think you’re palestinian
52:06
then they find that you’re not
52:07
any interesting like stories coming from
52:10
there
52:11
i mean i think that i think i’ve had
52:13
both
52:14
right um i think also just like
52:18
um appearance and obviously like race
52:21
and
52:21
skin color play a role in and everything
52:24
um
52:25
but yeah so when i when i speak arabic
52:27
um people kind of assume that maybe i
52:29
have some sort of you know palestinian
52:31
or arab maybe not necessarily
52:33
palestinians or maybe any sort of arab
52:35
influence
52:36
i don’t uh my parents are indian by way
52:39
of south africa so
52:40
that’s yeah yeah you’re like that’s my
52:42
connection it’s the whole apartheid
52:44
thing
52:44
yeah i mean that’s if you wanted a
52:46
connection to palestine it’s the fact
52:48
that my parents grew up in apartheid
52:49
south africa and they were very active
52:51
in in you know in their youth in
52:54
in the resistance movement in in south
52:56
africa so
52:57
i guess that’s the the strongest
52:59
connection right yeah what
53:01
what do they what do they think of this
53:03
your parents if i mask
53:05
it’s it’s interest obviously i mean
53:08
they have their whole personal approach
53:11
obviously
53:12
because their daughter is living here as
53:15
a political
53:16
human rights situation they’ve always
53:19
it’s never been a question growing up
53:21
like i said it’s literally never been a
53:23
question
53:23
of that you know we should support
53:25
palestinian human rights
53:27
and what’s happening uh the oppression
53:30
of palestinians what’s happening in
53:31
palestine is wrong
53:33
um and from the time we were young they
53:35
always compared it you know i said
53:36
i grew up sort of learning about it from
53:38
a religious perspective but because my
53:40
parents have that background um they
53:42
were very much
53:43
sort of vocal about that also in our
53:45
household and and why it was important
53:47
to um to draw those parallels between
53:50
the apartheid you know that they lived
53:51
under and what was happening in
53:52
palestine so i grew up in a family that
53:54
was
53:54
um you know uh very vocal
53:58
about that but then also on a personal
54:00
level i think it’s it’s hard for them
54:01
because they knew
54:02
what it was like to live under you know
54:04
oppressive apartheid regimes and
54:07
um what it meant to to move in those
54:10
those spaces obviously i’m not
54:12
palestinian and so there’s so much
54:13
privilege that comes with being
54:15
an american like a foreign journalist
54:16
but yeah on a personal level i think
54:18
they worry sometimes but they get it
54:20
they get why i’m here
54:22
um and anytime they question you know
54:24
why
54:25
you know oh maybe why do you like why do
54:27
you still want to stay there why do you
54:29
want to be there
54:30
um i always just tell them well you know
54:32
i grew up
54:33
with two parents who i literally grew up
54:36
hearing stories about
54:37
them resisting the apartheid regime in
54:39
south africa
54:40
and that’s those are the stories that i
54:42
i grew up hearing and those are
54:44
the the role models that i had so i
54:46
think
54:48
that the apple doesn’t fall far from the
54:50
tree
54:52
yeah um and yeah anything else i mean i
54:54
know that you you’ve been really
54:55
generous with your time
54:57
um and and just anything else you want
54:59
to make sure people know about like i
55:00
appreciated what you were saying about
55:02
how you know the academic
55:03
online consensus doesn’t necessarily
55:06
represent the you know not non-academic
55:09
consensus
55:10
um anything else that you want make sure
55:13
people know about that you experience
55:14
while you’re there yeah i mean
55:17
obviously i can take this it’s not just
55:20
this is
55:20
just a shameless plug for mondoys but
55:22
genuinely it’s
55:24
um it’s good obviously to to diversify
55:27
um you know your your sources for for
55:29
news and for happening for
55:31
for learning about what’s happening on
55:33
the ground in palestine and there are
55:35
an array of different voices coming out
55:37
of palestine and it’s great to seek
55:39
those out on places like mondo ice um
55:41
places like electronic intifada middle
55:43
east i imu all these different
55:46
organizations that are doing um really
55:48
great work and telling all different
55:50
kinds of palestinian stories
55:51
um that might that you might not
55:54
necessarily
55:55
be getting online and i guess what i
55:56
would would finish with
55:58
is that um i think we’re definitely
56:01
we’ve seen
56:02
we’re living in a moment now we’ve
56:03
definitely seen this huge moment that’s
56:05
happened over the past couple weeks and
56:07
i would encourage people
56:08
um no matter you know the different
56:10
smear campaigns that we’re already
56:12
seeing to come out and
56:13
the the different threats and um
56:17
and restrictions and um censorship that
56:19
we’re seeing i would still encourage
56:21
people to to continue to speak out and
56:23
to continue to push the narrative and
56:25
and shift uh the narrative as as we move
56:27
forward and
56:29
and to continue to to amplify
56:31
palestinian voices
56:32
as you know as we continue to to move
56:35
forward
56:36
yes and i’m having a bunch more of those
56:37
on by the way
56:39
so uh bringing back some old uh
56:42
standards ali abu nima’s coming back on
56:44
um
56:45
and i’m also uh having bringing on
56:47
people who i have not had on before
56:50
so i’ll be doing more earlier streams
56:51
like this so yes
56:53
definitely i didn’t mean to ask you to
56:56
like you know on behalf of palestinians
56:58
no yeah not one but yeah yeah you’re
57:00
just saying that you’re just suggest
57:01
giving encouraging people to do that
57:03
which i i personally like
57:04
even as someone who’s lived here for so
57:06
long i’ve lived in this community for so
57:08
long i’ve
57:08
i’ve been reporting on palestine for so
57:10
long and i i still
57:12
um the best thing that i continue to do
57:15
for myself is
57:16
to to continue to educate myself and
57:18
continue to learn
57:19
um and and follow the lead of the people
57:22
around me so
57:24
yeah okay and yeah and and keep us
57:27
uh in the loop you should come up uh oh
57:30
i do want to get miko palette do you
57:32
guys know him
57:33
he’s like the son of some israeli like
57:36
butcher
57:36
not butcher really i mean i’m being a
57:38
little he’s the son of some israeli
57:40
general or something
57:41
and he’s like super critical anyway yeah
57:44
we’ll do that
57:45
his father the general was also critical
57:47
he was a communist
57:48
oh wow let’s get him both on is he not
57:51
alive anyway
57:51
was more critical than the sun you know
57:54
what forget it i don’t want this
57:55
the sun i want the father is the father
57:56
alive i’ve died a number of years ago
57:58
all right i’ll take the sun
57:59
i’ll take the sun only because the
58:01
father’s not alive only because the
58:02
communist
58:03
more hardcore critic not a lot around
58:05
you’re lucky mikko
58:07
no uh or michael um and uh oh yuma’s
58:10
last appearance on the katie helper show
58:11
blew my mind what what what
58:13
about it by the way see i’m really
58:15
taking down the fourth wall
58:17
was it the way she just totally took um
58:20
attack the
58:21
you went after some talking points you
58:22
definitely did a great job you did the
58:24
israel cares about civilians and hamas
58:26
doesn’t
58:28
talking point you also said something
58:29
really interesting about the
58:31
problematic nature of the civilians
58:33
discourse and then noor erica came on i
58:35
don’t know if you saw it after but it
58:36
was like a really amazing
58:38
segue because jeff um yuma was talking
58:40
about
58:41
the you know how it’s like they have to
58:44
be
58:44
children you know we have to talk and
58:46
understandably we’re gonna we people
58:48
will mention when they’re children who
58:49
are killed
58:50
but it’s almost like the discourse has
58:51
become
58:53
but for the children and the elderly um
58:56
it’s not it’s not really that sad what’s
58:59
happening to palestinians because there
59:00
is this you know
59:02
implicit kind of um implicit
59:05
uh representation or assumption that
59:07
palestinians are kind of like by default
59:10
like terrorists and so you have to find
59:12
the the not you know the non-men
59:16
victims of it and then right after you
59:19
noor erakat came on i
59:20
i offered my related condolences but
59:23
we’d never spoken before
59:24
about her her cousin who was a young
59:26
palestinian man who had been killed
59:28
and then she went on to talk about
59:30
because you had mentioned that family
59:32
15 um who were her friends
59:35
family members at that point people
59:37
thought that 15 had been killed it’s
59:39
actually been
59:40
now we know 22 22. okay so even one up
59:44
from 21.
59:45
um and so yeah those were that was
59:49
i i think that people really don’t get
59:52
like if if we
59:53
if people saw photos of like families
59:56
and i don’t want to do
59:57
i’m not like pitting um israelis and
60:00
palestinians against each other or jews
60:02
and arabs
60:04
and muslims uh i know that these are not
60:06
interchangeable but anyway
60:08
the point is like if those were israeli
60:11
jewish people
60:12
and the whole family had been wiped out
60:15
like 21 members of a family have been
60:17
wiped out it would have been
60:18
like non-stop headline news
60:22
and yeah yeah
60:26
and i mean it would have been like the
60:28
you know the retaliation would have been
60:33
like unprecedented but that didn’t
60:35
really happen so
60:37
i think nora said it perfectly said
60:39
palestinians have to be the perfect
60:41
victims
60:42
you know palestinians are expected to
60:44
lay down and die that’s
60:45
what she said you know what i’ve
60:47
experienced so much in
60:49
in my reporting as well even when just
60:50
reporting on palestinian children that
60:52
are killed for example in the west bank
60:54
like literal children 16 14
60:56
15 years old um the second
61:00
that the army claims that they were
61:03
throwing stones or that they were
61:05
participating in a protest
61:07
as if it’s i mean in the army’s eyes and
61:09
israel says it’s justification
61:11
for their killing right but also somehow
61:14
in the media and in
61:18
just public discourse around palestine
61:20
it’s like yeah palestinians really are
61:22
expected to be perfect victims they’re
61:23
literally expected to
61:24
to lay down and die if if a 16 year old
61:27
was
61:28
was shot and killed throwing stones
61:30
people are trained to ask well why was
61:32
he throwing stones
61:34
not why was a child throwing stones seen
61:38
as so much of a threat that they had to
61:39
be killed
61:40
you know yeah
61:44
yeah it’s like yeah i mean i’ve seen
61:45
that it’s disgusting people like well
61:47
yeah it’s complicated though because he
61:48
was throwing stones like really
61:51
and again it’s like even if they there
61:54
was were not settler colonialism clearly
61:56
like
61:58
throwing stones is not um a death you
62:01
know punishable by
62:02
capital punishment but like the fact
62:04
that it’s in
62:06
the context that it’s in like the
62:08
context is never really described
62:10
so it just seems like out of the blue um
62:13
you know this is why we can’t have nice
62:14
things yeah
62:16
as opposed to yeah so i mean i’m always
62:19
surprised i’m not saying this to be like
62:21
to
62:21
to you know whatever the non-right-wing
62:24
version of the term virtue signaling is
62:26
but like i’m always
62:27
amazed that there isn’t more violence
62:31
like from the people who are
62:36
resisting
62:40
yeah but that’s yeah um all right well
62:43
thank you
62:44
jeff and i are going to talk more about
62:45
the one state thing you’re of course
62:46
welcome
62:47
but i know it’s late there and um we’ll
62:50
probably bore you with our help or on
62:51
helper stories i’m just kidding
62:52
but um yeah thanks for having me yeah
62:55
it’s great talking to you it’s great
62:56
talking to you yes yes
62:57
you’re our west bank you’re our west
62:58
bank well you are non-palestinian west
63:01
bank stringer so we’re going to have it
63:02
in best banks during our time i hope so
63:05
yeah okay
63:06
thank you guys thanks bye bye nice to
63:08
meet you
63:10
all right so let’s see oh great having
63:13
discussions give me hope by the way
63:14
everyone share this
63:16
share um this stream you can support on
63:19
patreon and i’m going to do a fundraiser
63:21
soon but honestly the more important
63:22
thing now
63:23
excuse me is to just share the stream so
63:25
people know that we’re talking about
63:26
these things because they’re pretty
63:27
important
63:28
and jeff can i ask you some more
63:30
questions of course
63:31
all right so i did i wanted to ask you
63:34
and i think it’s a it’s an interesting
63:36
and uncomfortable thing to talk about
63:37
right because it’s like
63:39
we want to take the lead from
63:41
palestinians
63:43
i just want to be honest about something
63:45
i keep hearing
63:47
that i used to just like dismiss and i
63:49
kind of still do but i realize it’s not
63:50
effective if we want to actually like
63:53
reach people so there and it’s funny i
63:56
said this to norman finkelstein
63:58
who’s become like a weekly feature of
63:59
the show and i should have you guys on
64:01
too and also you and
64:02
noora but i said something to him about
64:04
how people are like oh well if you know
64:06
if
64:07
if it becomes a one state then hamas is
64:09
going to be in power
64:10
and they will like throw the gays and
64:13
women from the rooftops which i think is
64:15
a bit hyperbolic obviously
64:17
um but people do really think that or
64:19
they think something along those lines
64:21
and then you know there
64:23
some people really think that genuinely
64:24
some people um are cynically saying that
64:27
knowing it’s not really going to happen
64:28
but
64:29
when i brought this up to finkelstein he
64:30
was like well you know
64:32
it would i’m not going to my norm
64:33
impersonation it would be
64:36
he basically said that he that it’s not
64:39
it’s not the south africa situation
64:40
right it isn’t this one person one vote
64:43
framing as of yet but i don’t even know
64:46
like
64:46
shouldn’t we just step back and i want
64:49
to both step back and let palestinians
64:51
take the lead and i also don’t know what
64:52
to say when people freak out about it
64:54
because i kind of casually was like well
64:56
if they have to leave
64:57
the jews have to leave is that something
65:00
that has to be accepted
65:01
like either implicitly or explicitly
65:04
before if we’re going to be honest about
65:06
the potential um one state
65:10
well you know we we simplify uh
65:14
palestinians a lot i mean that’s what
65:16
humanity was always talking about as
65:17
well
65:18
and nora you know first of all hamas is
65:21
a
65:22
is a is a political party isn’t the
65:24
terrorist organization like biden and
65:26
the us
65:27
claims it is so you know and uh and it’s
65:30
very complex they have
65:32
uh like every political party they have
65:34
they have a military wing they have a
65:35
political wing there
65:36
there’s this agreement all right one
65:38
second i just want to par i just want to
65:39
clarify i wasn’t adopting the framing of
65:41
hamas being this okay i just want people
65:44
to know that i was
65:44
quoting people yeah but you know there
65:47
was back in i think 2006
65:50
all the you know where are the
65:51
palestinian leaders today a lot of
65:53
most of them are either dead or they’re
65:55
in prison
65:57
and we have to keep that in mind as well
65:59
um
66:00
so in about 2006
66:03
palestinians in prison from all the
66:06
different factions
66:07
from the left and the right from the uh
66:10
the pflp all the way across the hamas
66:13
and the islamic jihad
66:15
all got together in prison the leaders
66:18
and came up with what’s called the
66:20
prisoner’s document that you can look up
66:22
online
66:23
and hamas signed on to it and it’s a
66:26
two-state idea it’s a very moderate
66:28
document saying that if israel really
66:31
agrees to withdraw
66:33
from the west bank east jerusalem and
66:35
gaza the 22
66:37
we will recognize we might not recognize
66:39
israel hamas didn’t go so far to say
66:41
they’ll recognize israel because they
66:43
don’t want to legitimize colonialism
66:46
i mean there’s a logic to that as well
66:48
but they’re willing to
66:49
to live at peace with israel sign an
66:51
agreement with israel
66:52
um and uh so basically hamas has and
66:56
they’ve repeated that many times over
66:58
the years that hamas basically accepted
67:00
the two-state idea
67:01
it’s israel and the international
67:03
communities pushed them
67:04
uh you know to in a sense to where they
67:07
are but another important thing to
67:08
remember is that the palestinians were
67:10
always the most secular
67:12
of all the arab populations the very
67:15
you know why you have to say well what
67:17
is hamas why hamas
67:19
i mean hamas came out because
67:22
you know the fatah who was the
67:25
revolutionary leadership
67:26
mainly under arafat gave into israel
67:31
in 1980 you know fatah and the plo
67:34
began as an anti-colonial organization
67:37
in the in the middle 60s
67:39
in 1988 they gave up the anti-colonial
67:42
struggle
67:43
accepted the two-state idea recognized
67:45
the state of israel
67:47
and then got into this whole ridiculous
67:48
austral peace process
67:50
so hamas has remained all these years
67:54
the
67:54
only effective in in jihad as well
67:57
islamic jihad
67:58
the only effective palestinian
68:00
organizations that still have an
68:02
anti-colonial idea that we have to
68:04
decolonize palestine
68:06
not that we have to throw all the jews
68:08
into the sea that isn’t
68:09
what they say right but that we have to
68:12
have
68:12
uh you know equal rights and i mean and
68:15
it’s true it’s not a secular idea that’s
68:17
that’s the problem i’m
68:18
also i don’t i’m not crazy about it he’s
68:20
allowed fundamentalism i mean don’t i’m
68:22
not a hamas supporter
68:24
in any way because i don’t think any
68:26
religious fundamentalism is the way to
68:27
go
68:28
but in a sense that’s you know that’s
68:31
the um
68:32
the default position that israel has
68:34
left the palestinians with because
68:36
israel will not deal with the pa with
68:38
the palestinian authority it won’t deal
68:40
with the boss it won’t deal with the plo
68:41
it won’t deal with the secular
68:43
right it only deal with
68:46
hamas hamas is the only political party
68:49
that israel
68:50
israel is the one that’s empowered hamas
68:52
right israel in a sense created hamas
68:54
as a counterweight to the to the plo
68:58
and and today if hamas is really the
69:00
leader
69:01
it’s not that the palestinians also
69:03
become religious
69:04
or they’re all into al-aqsa as a
69:07
religious
69:08
kind of thing al-aqsa is a much bigger
69:10
symbol than simply religion
69:12
um but but that but that
69:15
israel has left the field open only for
69:18
hamas
69:19
and and islamic jihad and so it’s
69:22
there’s a distortion so i think
69:23
in a situation where there’s where where
69:26
a decolonization process takes place and
69:29
we begin to really think about the
69:30
future and we start to talk to each
69:32
other
69:33
and move towards decolonization other
69:36
forces i mean hamas will be a
69:38
voice but other forces will come into
69:41
the fore as well and and so
69:42
we can’t make hamas these spokes
69:46
sure person of the palestinian people
69:49
right but also can’t we i guess this is
69:51
the thing that i don’t know exactly
69:54
it’s not really up to us when i say us i
69:57
mean you guys there right i mean it’s
69:59
like unfortunately
70:00
or for better for worse it’s like we
70:02
can’t really
70:03
we have to just wait kind of wait and
70:05
see what happens because
70:08
well you know there’s two ways you can
70:10
go yeah you know that that’s
70:12
in south africa uh you know eunuch could
70:15
party tell us better than me but
70:17
in south africa the whites did not
70:20
participate obviously in the dismantling
70:22
of apartheid
70:24
that was a black struggle the ancient
70:26
struggle yeah
70:27
there were some whites that helped yeah
70:29
but it was amazing i didn’t know that
70:30
there was such a high up jewish white
70:31
guy in the ncaa
70:32
and there was a it was a fairly high
70:34
jewish you know of
70:36
nelson mandela the five white members of
70:39
nelson mandela’s first government they
70:40
were all jews of course
70:43
but that aside um
70:46
um you know
70:50
it was only when the international
70:53
community and
70:54
internal opposition forced to collect
70:56
made the collapse of apartheid
70:58
forced a transition that then the whites
71:01
began to get involved
71:02
right and they did play a certain role
71:06
especially in keeping the economy white
71:08
in a sense
71:09
here that the same thing is true is
71:11
going to happen the israeli public the
71:12
israeli jewish public is not going to be
71:14
an active partner they’re never going to
71:15
agree
71:16
to liberation of palestine or
71:19
decolonization or anything
71:21
so we have to kind of work around them
71:23
in a sense
71:24
the question is when do they come into
71:26
the picture
71:27
once the israeli apartheid system
71:30
collapses
71:32
will israeli jews come in at that point
71:35
like they did in south africa
71:36
like the whites of south africa and help
71:39
rebuild the new country
71:41
or is that rebuilding gonna have to be
71:44
done by palestinians and the israelis
71:46
are going to be
71:46
sullen and sit in the corner and just
71:48
get whatever they get
71:50
you know at what point i don’t know the
71:51
answer to that
71:53
but the point is that the the very the
71:56
the
71:56
the thrust of liberation the first
71:59
the initial you know uh impetus towards
72:03
liberation the vision of liberation the
72:05
plan of liberation maybe even the
72:06
constitution
72:08
that would develop is gonna have to be
72:10
done by palestinians
72:11
now that’s where somebody like like i
72:14
could you know me can help
72:15
because being an israeli but being a
72:18
critical
72:19
anti-colonial israeli there aren’t a lot
72:21
of us but there weren’t that many whites
72:23
in south africa that work in the agency
72:25
as well
72:25
what we can do is we can act as kind of
72:27
a bridge because i know where the
72:29
israeli mind is
72:30
i know where most my neighbors are you
72:33
see so i can be
72:35
in this process talking with
72:37
palestinians as we’re beginning to
72:39
to form a vision of what the future
72:42
would be like
72:43
in a way i can represent my israeli
72:46
brethren or fellow countrymen whatever
72:49
you want to call them
72:51
in a way that they that they wouldn’t
72:52
want to be represented they don’t agree
72:54
to be represented but
72:56
in a sense that ensures that
72:59
that whatever liberation concept there
73:02
has to it has to be inclusive
73:04
yeah you know we’re not in algeria yeah
73:07
the israelis are not leaving right so
73:10
the
73:10
and the palestinians know that and they
73:12
have to bite that bullet
73:14
and come up with a liberation plan that
73:16
gives them their liberation
73:18
and their sovereignty and access to the
73:20
entire country and everything else
73:22
but also with mechanisms of living with
73:24
israelis
73:26
in in with equal rights and
73:29
uh that’s you know not going to be easy
73:33
but
73:34
but it has to be a palestinian-led
73:36
process
73:37
and it’s not going to be algeria just
73:39
because of the numbers
73:40
um by virtue of the i mean for starters
73:43
yeah like in south africa as well you
73:45
know it was the same thing i mean there
73:47
are some
73:47
i have the united states as a settler
73:49
colonial country
73:51
said like communism wins in a way
73:54
yeah the sudden state becomes so strong
73:57
and so established
73:59
that the indigenous people just don’t
74:00
they can’t overthrow it
74:02
now the indigenous work the the the the
74:05
french colonists in algeria
74:07
even though they were in algeria for 150
74:09
years and they felt algerian worst
74:12
very small minority right in south
74:15
africa they were a fairly small minority
74:17
but they were so powerful
74:19
economically and militarily and so on
74:21
that they they couldn’t be thrown out
74:23
yeah and i think that and certainly in
74:26
the u.s the native americans
74:28
would probably love to throw out you
74:30
guys that’s right
74:31
that’s not gonna happen so sometimes the
74:34
indigenous people have to bite that
74:35
bullet and say okay now
74:37
how can we carve out a maximum
74:40
sovereignty and lands and
74:42
a cultural space and so on
74:45
within a settler colonial yeah
74:47
environment that we can’t that we can’t
74:49
prevent
74:50
it’s the orthodox jews that are i mean
74:52
they’re
74:53
making it so that but for them like
74:57
there would have to be some kind of
75:00
like reckoning with palestinians as
75:03
people
75:04
that just like i know that this is a
75:05
problematic discourse and people think
75:07
it sounds eugenicist but obviously just
75:09
looking at numbers which
75:10
this is i mean i’m not like cheapening
75:13
people to numbers but obviously that
75:15
makes a
75:15
huge difference you have like all these
75:17
people populating
75:19
like making aliyah you know the settlers
75:22
and it’s just like
75:24
right then what is true is that it won’t
75:27
be there won’t be a jewish state i mean
75:29
that’s something we have to know the
75:30
palestinians have the same problem
75:32
it’s not going to be a palestinian state
75:34
either so both peoples have that hump to
75:36
go over
75:37
but you know the palestinians will have
75:39
a majority there already
75:41
is a majority of palestinians in this
75:42
country before any refugees return
75:45
right and of course any just solution
75:48
has to allow the return of refugees
75:50
yeah there will be a large fairly large
75:53
palestinian majority in the country
75:55
but at the same time you know it
75:59
see what we’re predict what we’re
76:01
presenting as a one-state idea
76:03
isn’t a threat everybody sees as a
76:05
threat
76:07
we see it as a challenge as really
76:09
something very positive
76:10
jews and and palestinians arabs
76:13
christians muslims have lived together
76:15
for centuries
76:16
no primordial this whole idea that some
76:19
primordial
76:20
hatred isn’t true and in fact we already
76:23
lived together you know 20 percent
76:25
21 of israelis our palestinian
76:29
are are are you know palestinians
76:33
so you know and and what’s interesting
76:35
is
76:36
their frustration is you see it today is
76:38
that they want to go
76:39
into israeli society and it’s the jews
76:41
that are keeping them out
76:43
you know they want to integrate
76:45
governmental wise
76:47
negotiate get into society and they’re
76:49
being kept out so
76:51
it isn’t that they’re holding themselves
76:53
aloof we’re the ones that are keeping
76:54
them aloof right
76:55
even in the west bank you know without
76:57
minimizing at all the violence and
77:00
oppression of
77:00
occupation even on those conditions
77:05
israelis and palestinians get along
77:07
pretty well
77:08
you know i mean there’s no equality
77:11
and and everything else but they’re also
77:13
we’re not in each other’s throats all
77:15
the time so the idea that we can live
77:17
together
77:19
uh you know has been proven i think over
77:21
the last 70 years
77:23
what we have to do though is to show
77:24
that that potential for living together
77:26
can be translated
77:28
into living together as equals and not
77:30
as uh
77:32
as meron benvenisti once said is the
77:35
relations of israelis to palestinians is
77:37
a horse to a rider you know the israelis
77:40
are the are the rider and the
77:42
palestinians are the horse and there’s a
77:43
relationship we have a relationship but
77:45
it’s not
77:46
the relationship that you really want
77:48
yeah
77:50
i mean understatement yeah um but so i
77:53
wanted to
77:54
if you don’t mind i i actually think
77:56
that this is a useful um
77:58
educational um teachable moment where we
78:01
have this
78:02
i won’t i won’t say anything critical
78:04
for we again max blumenthal and leslie
78:06
lee on another show that i did we went
78:08
through
78:08
these talking points but we didn’t
78:11
actually i think it’s actually important
78:12
to maybe like go through them
78:13
somewhat seriously even though they’re
78:15
so unserious but
78:17
so this is this is this somehow this guy
78:20
named
78:20
ken or hen made it um and he’s
78:24
uh what is his name i’ll um pen you know
78:27
him oh that’s your
78:28
name right yeah here i’ll um but it’s um
78:32
can you can you guys see it and
78:36
ken mazzig is his name and he does he is
78:40
an israeli writer son of
78:42
amazig and iraqi jewish refugees mizrahi
78:45
queer
78:46
opinions in newsweek la times nbc news
78:48
and more and he does a lot of like um
78:52
you know jews in america and need your
78:54
support are jews indigenous people
78:56
experts in archaeology say yes um
78:59
you know a lot of he’s really trying to
79:01
like wokify i see
79:03
colonialism right so here’s here’s
79:05
something that he made
79:07
and it’s like a weird exchange between i
79:09
guess it’s a non-jewish person and a
79:11
jewish person
79:12
um so okay i read online i’m gonna read
79:16
this out loud so we can just respond to
79:17
them
79:18
i read online that israelis are
79:19
ethnically cleansing palestinians and
79:21
then the response is
79:22
stop taking everything you read online
79:24
for face value i think an israeli wrote
79:26
this by the way because their little
79:27
like
79:28
prepositions are are wrong it’s not at
79:30
face value stop taking everything you
79:32
read online for face value
79:34
palestinians face major many challenges
79:36
and inequalities but are not being
79:38
ethnically cleansed
79:39
however jews have been ethnically
79:41
cleansed from the rest of the middle
79:42
east
79:43
so and you were i mean that’s the op
79:46
the opposite of the truth of course
79:48
right i mean of course the palestinians
79:50
have been ethnically cleansed i mean the
79:51
read elon poppy’s book right exactly
79:53
yeah palestine which he’s a
79:56
professional historian who very
79:57
carefully documents i mean that that’s
80:00
not even
80:01
even right-wing israelis admit
80:03
ethnically i know they’re so much more
80:05
honest than the
80:06
than america yeah i know and also like i
80:08
always bring this up but it’s so funny
80:09
that benny morris who like turned
80:11
right-wing
80:11
is still like yeah it was ethnic
80:13
cleansing uh yeah
80:15
it should have been ethical could have
80:16
been more there should have been more
80:18
yeah right that’s it that’s right so
80:20
that he admits it yeah so guys this is
80:21
not a good time that’s already
80:23
that’s ridiculous it has to be ethnic
80:25
cleansing because
80:27
you know when zionism began there were
80:29
other people there
80:30
some of was it was arab it was
80:32
palestinian
80:34
so what do you how do you set up a
80:35
jewish country in an arab country
80:38
they were jews they were caring land an
80:40
ethnically population
80:42
i mean ben gurion and jabotinsky
80:45
were absolutely crystal clear on this
80:47
you don’t have to guess i mean
80:50
there’s volumes of works by zionists
80:53
that
80:54
actually spell out exactly what they
80:56
were doing and some of them even used
80:57
words like ethnic lensing yeah well
80:59
that’s what benny morris was saying he
81:00
was like look
81:01
this the right wing benny moore so i’ve
81:03
met just so people know benny morris was
81:04
one of these new historians
81:06
he you know criticized israel then of
81:09
course was like
81:10
you know bannon but he was one of the
81:11
few who stayed in the country right yeah
81:14
so that’s why he went right but most of
81:16
them were right-wing
81:17
yeah so he became very right-wing but
81:19
again he in his book 1948
81:21
he like meticulously documented that
81:23
there was ethnic cleansing
81:24
and then he was kind of asked about it
81:26
he’s like yeah it’s uh you know
81:29
he wrote the book of the refugee problem
81:32
and he said that it was that or genocide
81:34
which is
81:35
something you hear all the time and i
81:36
think stops people in their tracks
81:38
because they don’t want to sound like
81:39
they’re genocide supporters or like
81:40
they’re downplaying the holocaust that’s
81:42
another thing we can get to but
81:43
but just for this slideshow carousel
81:46
it’s just a lie there was ethnic
81:48
cleansing and there is a cleansing
81:50
otherwise you’re a country jewish
81:52
country without anticleansing
81:54
they all left that’s something it’s
81:55
structurally necessary
81:57
the other side though is not right jews
81:59
were not ethnic cleansed from middle
82:01
eastern countries
82:02
matter of fact you still have a jewish
82:04
population morocco and iran and
82:07
big population of turkey you know jews
82:10
left a lot of them left but a lot of the
82:13
christians left as well
82:14
you know this is at a time when the
82:15
colonials were leaving there’s a rise in
82:17
nationalism
82:19
um you know some jews were involved with
82:21
arab nationalism as well
82:24
but for the for the most part it’s true
82:26
that when the uh
82:27
when when nationalism arose especially
82:30
when zionism arose too because that
82:32
that alienated many jews from uh
82:36
from their arab neighbors um
82:39
um you know many jews had to leave
82:42
because of all the the up
82:43
but they weren’t thrown out as a matter
82:45
of fact [ __ ] hillel
82:48
who was the speaker of the israeli
82:49
knesset and and the
82:51
police minister for many years wrote a
82:54
book he was sent
82:55
as well known he and other agents were
82:58
sent into iraq
83:00
in 1949 in the early 1950s
83:03
in order to bomb synagogues and markets
83:07
to scare jews to leave because the jews
83:09
didn’t want to leave iraq
83:10
and the iraqis didn’t want to throw them
83:12
out and it was the same with kurdistan
83:15
and they had to create this kind of uh
83:17
of a fear among jews that they’re being
83:19
attacked
83:20
you know to create the stampede out so
83:23
it it simply isn’t true that the jews
83:25
were able to be cleansed
83:26
right you know there were there were
83:27
movements back you know and jews left
83:30
which is true but
83:32
not because of an ethnic cleansing
83:33
campaign they were ethnically cleansed
83:35
by zionists
83:36
in the case you just say it well in some
83:38
ways yes i mean in some ways zionism is
83:41
responsible for for the biggest cultural
83:44
holocaust
83:45
think of jews that lived all over the
83:47
world for thousands of years the
83:50
cultures imagine the iraqi culture
83:52
the north african culture the yemenite
83:54
culture the russian culture the
83:57
you know the cultures of india you know
83:59
cultures of jews all over the world
84:01
and in a sense to to create conditions
84:04
in which
84:05
jews feel they have to leave or get
84:07
pressured to leave
84:08
or want them or you know or you create
84:11
this idea that you can only be really
84:13
jewish if you’re in this this country
84:15
here
84:16
and and of course zionism had this idea
84:19
of negating the exile
84:21
they called jews jewish these wonderful
84:24
rich jewish cultures including american
84:26
jewish culture
84:27
they called them ephemeral they call you
84:29
know they they weren’t real
84:31
they were they were just temporary
84:34
you’re really
84:34
jewish when you’re in israel which is
84:36
which is nonsense of course
84:38
but not only nonsense it’s really
84:41
this is an anti-jewish country from the
84:43
point of view of what jews judaism is
84:45
really about that’s another story yeah
84:47
yeah but the point is that that the
84:49
destruction of jewish cultures
84:51
these historic ancient jewish all over
84:54
the world was the
84:55
was the product of zionism not of
84:58
anything else
84:58
zionism destroyed a rich jewish world
85:02
only now i think in the states and other
85:05
places are jews abroad beginning to wean
85:07
themselves away from zionism
85:10
say zionism cannot define us and are
85:13
beginning to go back and try to reclaim
85:15
some of their jewish
85:17
and legitimize validate their own jewish
85:20
cultures that aren’t defined by israel
85:22
but israel did that it was very
85:25
very imperialistic towards the jews
85:27
because it wants to be the jewish
85:30
power that you were sent from the only
85:31
jewish voice
85:33
and jews are resisting that i think yeah
85:36
have you ever spoken to ellie valley i
85:38
should have both of you on the show at
85:39
the same
85:40
time he wrote that book to israel boy
85:42
versus diaspora man
85:44
no other way around diaspora boy versus
85:45
israel man it’s really good
85:47
okay so we got we got that one out of
85:49
the way okay next
85:50
isn’t the israeli palestinian conflict
85:52
just a middle eastern argument over land
85:54
between muslims and jews
85:55
yes but not the first jewish people have
85:57
lived in jerusalem for thousands of
85:59
years and they’ve lived in the middle
86:00
east for ages being oppressed
86:02
raped and murdered by the arab empire
86:04
like palestinian christians
86:07
that’s ridiculous first of all jews
86:09
lived a very very secure life
86:11
in the arab world uh i know what they
86:14
mean by arab empire
86:16
i know yeah what is that the ottoman
86:17
empire i mean i don’t know what that
86:18
means
86:19
arab empire is a stupid term yeah the
86:22
jews lived very on the contrary that was
86:24
you know if you compare them to europe
86:26
you know the chief rabbi of the jews it
86:29
was sat in istanbul
86:30
in the in the sultan’s court you had a
86:33
chief rabbi here in in jerusalem
86:36
jews had a very formal they were
86:40
they had a formal status in the muslim
86:42
world um
86:43
they lived a very secure life uh
86:46
actually in the
86:47
in the muslim world so that you know
86:49
that part is ridiculous but the point is
86:51
yes jews did live here thousands of
86:53
years and they can
86:55
that’s true you know they’re trying to
86:59
the same look at the same quote that
87:00
same bubble they’re saying the liver for
87:03
thousands of years
87:04
trying to give the idea the jews are
87:05
sort of like natives and they’re really
87:06
here
87:07
but they were always persecuted it’s not
87:09
true they lived here
87:11
they weren’t persecuted i mean here and
87:13
there they were they were they were
87:15
instances of course like in every
87:16
history but but they were but
87:18
they lived here and uh and the cha
87:22
what zionism did you see zionism came in
87:26
and ruined it because zionism came in
87:28
and said not that
87:30
you know we’re jews we see
87:33
the land of israel as our homeland we
87:35
want to come home we want to revive our
87:37
national culture our national language
87:40
but we recognize that there’s also a
87:42
palestinian people here
87:44
there are people here obviously 90
87:47
some percent of the population wasn’t
87:48
jewish we acknowledged that
87:50
now we want to come as immigrants like
87:53
our forefathers did for thousands of
87:55
years
87:56
live with you and we can develop our
87:59
national
88:00
cultures together there’s not that was
88:02
that was the idea of cultural zionism
88:04
eliezer ben yehuda henrietta zold who
88:07
started hadassah
88:09
judah magnus who started the hebrew
88:10
university martin buber these are all
88:13
prominent
88:14
jewish figures that that believe that
88:17
yes we’re a national group that should
88:19
be here in the land of israel
88:20
we want to speak hebrew and heaven but
88:22
we can do that together with
88:23
palestinians we don’t need a state
88:26
we don’t want to ghettoize ourselves
88:27
again in a innocent they were against
88:29
them
88:30
so the designers and the broad and the
88:32
idea that this country belongs to us
88:34
exclusively
88:36
it’s ours we’re going to ethically
88:38
cleanse it get out you arabs
88:40
you don’t belong here and that was that
88:43
i mean the jews that lived here for
88:45
thousands of years
88:46
they were appalled by the zionists
88:49
uh by the zionist attitude you know the
88:52
jews
88:53
i wrote a book about the old yeshua of
88:55
in jerusalem in the 19th century
88:57
they were appalled by the zionists this
88:59
is a fart of jews who were born
89:02
because they felt that they were the
89:03
they were the jews were part of the
89:05
indigenous
89:06
palestinian population so uh you know
89:09
and they felt that they were being
89:10
alienated from the people they’ve lived
89:12
with for thousands of years so that
89:13
whole quote that you gave
89:16
again everything is reversed you know
89:18
jews lived very well in the muslim world
89:20
and and they did live together with
89:23
palestinians until zionism came
89:25
and created that alienation and that in
89:28
that conflict basically
89:30
which doesn’t mean there weren’t
89:31
obviously because then people are like
89:32
how dare you there was this
89:33
my family was obviously there were there
89:35
were episodes but there are episodes
89:37
like there were
89:38
but it’s not this existential
89:40
incompatibility that people like to
89:41
claim and again it doesn’t make sense
89:43
because if jews were there for so long
89:45
and there was persecution how did they
89:47
like they got
89:48
almost wiped out obviously in europe but
89:51
you know
89:52
this is the only major persecutions
89:54
really
89:55
i mean here and there it depends you
89:57
know if you come if you talk about the
89:58
crusader times or you know right
90:00
now the the only the more difficult
90:03
it’s true was iran and yemen when you
90:06
had a shiite to muslim country
90:08
it was harder on the jews that’s true
90:10
but it is
90:11
also harder on the christians right we
90:13
also have to understand that jews and
90:15
christians
90:16
were very much involved with trade and
90:18
they had relations abroad and when the
90:21
cult
90:21
when the european colonization began
90:24
when europe france and britain and
90:26
european countries began to come and
90:28
take over the middle east
90:31
jews and christians tended to work with
90:34
the europeans because they were the more
90:36
educated
90:37
they did more trade you know and so in
90:40
some ways
90:41
uh that alienated them a little bit from
90:45
from the muslim population that is
90:47
usually
90:48
wasn’t so involved with the europeans
90:51
and
90:51
uh and then when you know the colonists
90:54
left
90:54
the liberation movements began sometimes
90:57
it’s true that that created tensions as
90:59
well
91:00
but uh but for the most part you know
91:02
again it’s
91:03
it is true a little bit in the shiite
91:05
countries
91:06
uh jews have more of a problem but
91:08
overall the jews live the very secure
91:10
life of the middle east
91:12
all right so that’s number we got two
91:14
out of two what a shame and what a
91:16
surprise they’re not being
91:17
uh they’re either incorrect by the way i
91:19
tweet it out so that in case deborah
91:21
messing or
91:22
hen want to join the chat i mean i’m i’m
91:26
assuming you’re open to debating them
91:27
okay let’s see what’s next so
91:29
those are the two of carousel slides and
91:31
then we got
91:33
um let’s go back to the share
91:37
screen um
91:42
okay so next slide yeah
91:45
um oh wait whoops who are they sending
91:48
these slides to
91:48
they’re i mean i’m obviously there are
91:50
people who are sending these things out
91:52
to some like well-known people
91:53
and holla you know so deborah messing
91:55
has never been the
91:56
sharpest knife in the drawer but she’s
91:58
just uh she’s you know this is part of
92:00
her i should actually let me back up
92:01
i don’t know who she is oh sorry she’s
92:03
from will and grace she’s part of the
92:04
resistance she’s a blue check liberal
92:06
like major you know like a blue check
92:10
like on twitter she’s a blue check she’s
92:13
oh sorry she was on the show
92:14
will and grace which was a f which was a
92:17
sitcom about
92:18
a gay man and a straight woman who lived
92:21
together
92:21
she’s uh actor mama the distinctive
92:24
podcast
92:31
oh you can also have her do a cameo for
92:32
you oh my god we should write a cameo
92:34
script for her
92:35
wishing someone happy birthday for like
92:38
wishing the knock but happy anniversary
92:40
or something that would be great let’s
92:41
we’ll put our heads together for that
92:42
later but here’s the context of it
92:44
please take three minutes and read
92:46
through this carousel there is so much
92:47
disinformation about israel being spread
92:49
and it is getting people hurt there are
92:51
videos from all over the world including
92:52
the us of crowds of pro-palestinian
92:54
protesters attacking beating kicking
92:56
using pipes as weapons against jews it’s
92:58
horrifying attacks against jews has
93:00
increased 483 percent in the last 10
93:03
days
93:03
86 attacks hamas is a terrorist
93:05
organization whose sole purpose is to
93:07
kill every jew and destroy israel
93:09
most people living in israel want peace
93:11
i know i mean there’s so much
93:12
that’s not true at all i pray for a
93:15
two-state solution
93:16
i pray for the killing to stop but this
93:18
is impossible as long as hamas is
93:20
allowed to continue its campaign to
93:21
destroy israel
93:22
hamas must be defeated for the safety of
93:24
everyone in the region for the safety of
93:26
jews everywhere
93:27
also so what is that’s basically saying
93:29
i stand with the
93:30
with the um uh bombing civilian
93:33
neighborhoods right like i don’t i don’t
93:35
know
93:36
we’re also reducing everything to hamas
93:38
oh of course i mean
93:39
you have to remember that you know we’re
93:41
talking about 125 year
93:43
colonial venture of zionism hamas is
93:46
maybe 25 30 years old
93:48
so before that 1948 is because of hamas
93:52
right i mean i mean to be fair it’s not
93:54
like if we said this to her she’d have
93:56
any idea what you were talking about but
93:57
yes
93:57
just so people know but i mean just her
93:59
i’m just saying like what this whole
94:01
thing about like they must be stopped or
94:02
like
94:03
like stop like it’s not like people
94:06
in the united states are walking around
94:08
it’s not like
94:09
politicians whenever people talk about
94:11
hamas i’m like okay great let me know
94:13
when the u.s government starts funding
94:15
them training them and bragging about
94:17
their special relationship with them
94:18
like who are you what what like who are
94:21
you speaking truth to power to when you
94:23
say
94:23
hamas is bad or what but the weird thing
94:26
is like they must be stopped
94:27
it’s not weird actually they’re just
94:28
basically they’re pushing
94:30
they’re just justifying and standing
94:32
behind ethnic cleansing
94:34
or we don’t have to call ethnic
94:35
cleansing it’s just what like civilian
94:37
just massacring civilians that’s what
94:39
they’re doing they’re trying to sanitize
94:41
and make what’s really sailor
94:43
colonialism which again deborah messing
94:45
doesn’t know what that is
94:46
but like they’re trying to make bombing
94:48
buildings
94:49
look like an existent responding to an
94:51
existential threat
94:53
and they know that people on the left
94:55
are people are shifting
94:56
and so they’re putting their i mean you
94:59
have to be pretty desperate to
95:00
to put your hopes into pr from from
95:03
debra messing but
95:04
um but you know israel is
95:06
instrumentalizing
95:08
israel instrumentalizes the palestinians
95:11
you know that’s the problem because you
95:13
know
95:14
you know we talked about it before i
95:16
mean israel wouldn’t would never deal
95:18
with the palestinian authority it would
95:19
never deal with the
95:20
with 90 90 some percent of the
95:23
palestinians they would never deal with
95:24
their issues with the liberation with
95:26
ethnic cleansing with the
95:27
with land issues with with all that
95:29
stuff so what they did is they pushed
95:31
and pushed and pushed
95:33
hamas and resistance you know they left
95:36
palestinians in a corner with nothing to
95:38
do except
95:38
resist in a religious kind of a way
95:40
almost so
95:42
they made hamas into the into the
95:44
palestinians
95:46
and that’s the incidental because then
95:48
you’ve then you take the most extreme
95:50
islamic fundamentalism and and push it
95:53
into a corner
95:54
and make its military wing dominant and
95:57
then you
95:58
characterize the palestinians as them
96:01
you see that’s where israel has
96:02
instrumentalized the palestinians it’s
96:05
created in our minds
96:07
what art how it wants us to imagine
96:10
palestinians which is hamas
96:12
and then they gave a word to it hamas
96:14
and that’s what’s happened
96:16
yeah palestinians have been reduced to
96:18
hamas right
96:19
yeah i mean again it’s so funny and
96:21
israelis will admit to all of this even
96:23
right-wing israelis they’re like yeah we
96:25
founded this nation through terrorism
96:27
yeah hamas we created hamas um but
96:30
uh so so but whatever messing i mean
96:33
again as i tweeted i almost feel bad
96:35
talking to her like she’s an adult but
96:36
um so please read the carousel get
96:38
informed share widely disinformation is
96:40
gas on the fire of anti-semitism and it
96:42
is everyone’s responsibility not to
96:44
amplify this information on social media
96:45
it hurts
96:46
if you’re an ally please act like an
96:47
ally we need you so again there this is
96:49
a very conscious thing they’re aware
96:51
they’re trying to make it look like
96:52
people who side with
96:54
palestinians in this are are
96:56
perpetuating anti-semitism and they’re
96:58
trying to actually speak to people
97:00
who in good faith are going to be afraid
97:02
of that and it’s
97:04
it’s so disgusting because just like the
97:06
you know
97:07
ben gurion these people are weaponizing
97:09
anti-semitism
97:11
and they care way more about zionism
97:12
than they care about anti-semitism
97:14
which is why you have netanyahu being
97:16
buddy buddy with
97:17
um you know orban and uh
97:21
in hungary and the polish guy even when
97:23
they like
97:24
basically say that like the holocaust
97:27
that poland did not they tried to pass a
97:29
law saying poland did not
97:31
it was not responsible for the holocaust
97:33
at all that’s right
97:34
no israel i think it puts the jews in in
97:36
real jeopardy
97:37
they are the they are next they’re
97:39
they’re an existential
97:40
anti-semitic director because you know
97:43
jews
97:44
had always been the met the odd man out
97:47
you know they didn’t fit in anybody’s
97:48
country they didn’t fit
97:49
within laws the legal system religious
97:51
systems
97:52
you know and so they were always always
97:55
the ones that
97:56
got persecuted basically um what
97:59
happened was you know part of the
98:00
process was after world war
98:02
ii and the holocaust and so on you had a
98:04
process of
98:05
the whole world of human rights starts
98:07
to open up and people don’t know this
98:10
jews don’t know this but the hero the
98:12
thomas jefferson of the world of human
98:14
rights
98:16
was you know who wrote the universal
98:19
declaration of human rights
98:21
no no rene kasin
98:24
renekasen c-a-s-s-i-n-s was a french
98:29
jurist a jewish french jurist
98:32
and he was the he was the thomas
98:35
jefferson of the world of human rights
98:37
he was one of the framers of the
98:39
universal declaration of human rights
98:41
of the geneva conventions he worked very
98:43
closely with eleanor roosevelt to get
98:46
all these things through
98:47
with the jewish community ironically he
98:50
was the american jewish community that’s
98:51
so rapidly pro-israel today
98:54
that was in favor of human rights and
98:56
and the geneva conventions and the
98:57
universal declaration of human rights
98:59
that governments didn’t want to accept
99:01
the jews were on the right side of
99:02
history
99:03
on those days and renee kassen
99:07
you know would always he won the nobel
99:09
peace prize in 1968
99:11
and he’s buried those that know the
99:13
paris
99:14
the pantheon which is the french temple
99:18
of of the heroes of the french republic
99:20
victor hugo is buried in the pantheon
99:23
rousseau is buried there some of the
99:25
great french figures
99:27
renek hassan is there as well wow and
99:29
naked
99:30
used to say that you know human rights
99:33
brings jews under the umbrella
99:36
now you know anti-semitism is a form of
99:40
racism
99:41
and human rights deals with all forms of
99:45
racism including anti-semitism
99:47
so what happened was that when
99:51
when israel was created of course uh it
99:54
was
99:54
in the interests of of the of zionism
99:57
which
99:57
dealt with you know with the illegal
99:59
things ethnic cleansing and
100:01
colonialism at a time when colonialism
100:03
was starting to phase out
100:06
had to work against international law
100:09
uh and then you had the occupation so
100:12
now you have the fourth geneva
100:13
convention that protects
100:14
palestinians living under occupation
100:17
israel’s
100:18
violated every single item of the fourth
100:20
gene of the convention
100:22
uh so you know and why do they do it
100:25
because we’re an exception
100:27
yeah we had the holocaust it doesn’t
100:29
apply to us
100:30
we’re special so renek ascend used to
100:33
say to the jews
100:35
are you sure you want to be special
100:37
again wow are you sure you want to step
100:39
out from under the umbrella with
100:41
everybody else
100:42
all the protections of human rights
100:44
international law
100:45
and now you want to be the exceptions
100:47
you know that that’s a double-edged
100:49
sword
100:50
and so in order to protect
100:54
jew you know israeli uh
100:57
policies like occupation and ethnic
100:59
cleansing that are against international
101:01
law
101:02
israel is forcing the jewish community
101:04
to step outside of human rights
101:06
to to violate or not ex not not to
101:10
not to advocate for human rights because
101:13
human rights and
101:14
israel are are at odds with each other
101:16
you see
101:17
and that’s where israel is losing the
101:19
jewish community
101:21
because american jews in particular i
101:23
think i think are defined by social
101:25
justice and human rights
101:27
so you had ron dermer dermer who’s the
101:30
who was the us the israeli ambassador to
101:33
the us
101:34
during the trump time for netanyahu he
101:37
said
101:37
last week israel has to forget american
101:40
jews we’ve lost them
101:43
all we have left are evangelicals right
101:45
yeah
101:47
and so i think jews to the degree that
101:49
jews see human rights
101:51
as important for them as well as for the
101:53
rest of humanity
101:55
have to stand against israel and that’s
101:58
that’s you see israel’s dilemma is that
102:01
you’ve got to
102:02
link up now this you know jews that
102:05
always see themselves as liberals
102:07
at least if not radicals right all of a
102:09
sudden have to link up with evangelicals
102:12
in order to support a country that that
102:14
violates human law
102:15
international law with uh with impunity
102:18
right i don’t think
102:19
that’s that’s putting jews in a terrible
102:21
position
102:22
and then netanyahu gets up in the u.n
102:24
and says we’re attacking gaza
102:27
in the name of the jewish people right
102:29
not in the name of israelis
102:31
this is a jewish state not the israeli
102:33
state
102:34
and so he creates that that
102:38
that confusion he blurs the boundaries
102:41
between jews and israelis
102:42
so now you katie helper who are not
102:45
israeli
102:46
who never voted for netanyahu have been
102:49
co-opted by him he now represents you
102:52
so now when you’re out in the street you
102:53
go try to explain to the
102:55
to your fellow americans why what israel
102:58
is doing isn’t your fault
103:00
or you’re not the responsible yeah what
103:03
the american jewish community has to do
103:05
is get up and say no just what you said
103:08
at the beginning of the end
103:09
of this program not in my name yeah
103:12
if the american jewish tree doesn’t do
103:14
that they can’t be blamed
103:15
for people confusing israelis news and
103:18
attacking jews
103:20
because that’s the confusion that israel
103:23
is trying to
103:24
do to to push on people right which
103:27
and of course it’s anti-semitic right
103:29
because the conflating jewish identity
103:32
with un questioning support of israel um
103:36
is anti-semitic but um yeah
103:39
exactly right has been has been
103:41
weaponized yeah
103:42
and i mean all the stuff like
103:44
netanyahu’s son posting a really great
103:46
alt-right
103:47
anti-semitic meme of george soros like
103:50
was that a i mean
103:51
which literally david duke was like
103:52
welcome yeah
103:55
uh netanyahu um okay yes that’s true
103:58
palestinians and arabs
104:00
are semites yes i mean we got to
104:01
reinvent the wheel then i guess
104:03
but i mean for i’m not sure that’s like
104:06
our biggest priorities
104:08
uh is redefining that term but um
104:11
i i guess it does speak to it ironically
104:13
to you know
104:14
a a connection that’s often
104:17
overlooked okay so we got that one let’s
104:20
see what’s next um
104:22
and i did not know about renee kasan
104:23
that’s interesting um
104:25
okay so back to deb i mean that is just
104:28
so disgusting that the
104:30
hamas has to be defeated again what are
104:32
you what are you saying like we’re
104:33
funding hamas or something
104:35
i just don’t get it okay again it’s just
104:39
hamas is willing to deal with israel
104:41
right right
104:42
israel yeah you know it’s not gonna
104:45
surrender
104:46
you know have a palestinian friend that
104:48
said to me you know israel won’t even
104:49
let us surrender
104:51
um you know hamas says fine okay two
104:53
states you know right and you know what
104:55
the palestinians say you know what keep
104:57
some of the settlements keep
104:58
east jerusalem just i mean they’re going
105:01
down down you know and israel won’t even
105:02
let them surrender
105:04
you just put because israel needs to
105:07
beat them it needs to defeat them
105:09
that’s without that it just keeps going
105:12
on forever and if the palestinians don’t
105:14
agree to be defeated
105:16
um they’ll be demonized and attacked
105:21
forever um okay next so there are
105:25
palestinian christians what about
105:26
israeli-arab palestinians are these
105:28
palestinians are there palestinian jews
105:30
and then she responds before israel gave
105:33
over control of the west bank and gaza
105:35
to the palestinians
105:37
there were 9.5 palestinian christians in
105:40
the area
105:40
under palestinian authority and hamas
105:42
hamas’s oppression they shrunk to one
105:44
percent
105:45
meanwhile israel has 20 arab-israeli
105:48
citizens muslims and christians
105:50
the pa said they won’t let any jews live
105:52
in palestine and do not recognize any
105:54
jew as palestinian
105:55
jews from the moon okay so uh yeah
105:58
that’s a lie i mean sometimes you know
106:00
you could not distort the truth just lie
106:03
right
106:03
so they’re just that’s just not true
106:06
that’s that what about the part about
106:08
the pa
106:09
yeah the palestinian authority okay jews
106:11
from the middle east do not identify as
106:13
arab this is really weird
106:15
jews from the middle east do not
106:16
identify as arab or palestinian because
106:18
they were never accepted as such they go
106:20
by israel mizrahi jews
106:23
so no jews identify as arab
106:26
how do they know this have they done a
106:28
have they done a
106:29
like a poll okay well i mean that
106:33
there’s a whole story there too and that
106:35
is that you know when uh
106:37
i mean mizrahi is a new term yeah they
106:39
didn’t call themselves miracles
106:41
they called themselves uh what they were
106:44
iraq iraqi jews young knights news
106:47
egyptian jews
106:48
you know a hundred years ago there was
106:49
no such thing as insurance
106:51
a matter of fact 20 years ago there was
106:53
no such thing as mizrahi
106:54
we used to sort of say misrach which are
106:57
jews from the east oriental jews
107:00
but but they used to call themselves you
107:03
know
107:03
if you’re coming from yemen you don’t
107:05
call yourself arab and this is
107:10
and that’s what they call themselves
107:12
right rocky jews i mean you still have
107:14
you have a museum of iraqi jews and lud
107:17
you’ve got the museums of safari
107:19
you know that they call themselves by
107:20
the names of the communities right
107:22
and uh and uh it was the ashkenazi jews
107:27
you see that basically said to the
107:29
mizrahi and that’s why you had
107:32
the black panthers and that’s why you
107:33
had that reaction that you had
107:36
among the among mizraki jews the
107:39
ashkenazi said to them
107:41
you will we will accept you as
107:45
israelis we will integrate you into
107:47
israeli life
107:49
on condition that you give up your arab
107:51
identities
107:53
you can’t be arabs and israelis you
107:55
can’t be arab jews
107:57
and there was a whole process in the 50s
108:00
that that
108:01
that they’re still paying the price for
108:03
of deculturalization
108:05
you know and they they destroyed their
108:08
ethnic identities their their
108:10
all the identities they had for
108:12
thousands of years
108:13
and tried to make them into uh into you
108:16
know imitation ashkenazi jews
108:18
you know which they have to some degree
108:21
and uh
108:22
it was tremendous reaction that’s why
108:24
until today miss rocky jews votely
108:26
couped
108:27
they would never vote for the labor
108:28
party because they’re still angry at
108:30
what the labor party did to them in the
108:31
1950s you hear that
108:33
all the time it’s an open wound
108:36
among among mizrahi jews so i think the
108:39
fact that they
108:40
that they’re they were de-culturalized
108:42
which is true
108:44
i mean today they don’t see themselves
108:45
as arab jews
108:47
on the contrary a lot of them walk
108:48
around with big stars of david because
108:50
they look a little bit arab
108:51
right no yeah and it’s like invincible
108:54
you know and that’s that’s a problem you
108:56
know so so i think
108:58
[Music]
108:59
you know that’s what’s happened to them
109:01
is that uh is that
109:03
uh they went through this process and
109:05
now the young generation doesn’t know
109:06
arabic is alienated from arabs in
109:08
general
109:09
and as they became israeli they came
109:11
more right wing
109:12
and and you know this the whole idea
109:14
that you have to be anti-arab because
109:16
zionism is basically anti-arab that’s
109:19
trying to make the country jewish and
109:21
and and de-arabize the country
109:23
right so if you’re going to de-arabize
109:25
the palestinians you have to de-arabize
109:27
the jews as well
109:28
yeah israelite processes these people
109:30
don’t either they don’t know
109:33
or they don’t they can’t they aren’t
109:35
because they’re
109:36
threatened to the narrative you need a
109:38
clean easy narrative
109:40
yeah we’re the good guys they’re the bad
109:42
guys we were persecuted
109:45
now we’re uh you know accepting of
109:47
everyone
109:48
that they’re not you know black white
109:50
binary
109:51
and the minute you bring up something
109:54
historical or analytical
109:56
or critical or whatever and you break
109:58
that binary narrative
110:00
uh it’s useless for you now yeah
110:04
it has to be simple and and
110:07
uh and uh you know so in many ways
110:10
structurally they’re incapable of
110:12
dealing with complexities
110:14
right i mean because it would undermine
110:15
like you’re saying they’re very kind of
110:17
like uh what ethno unless
110:20
right yeah right it’s interesting
110:23
because israel has such a weird
110:24
relationship with the
110:26
miser with the ashkenazi mizrahi
110:29
identity because they they’re like a
110:32
bunch of
110:34
i mean they’re run the country the
110:35
government right is like
110:37
mostly ashkenazi but they they try to
110:40
iden you know their whole the sabras
110:42
right who are born there
110:43
they like wanna be these bronze
110:46
strapping men who work the earth like
110:48
the total rejection of ashkenazi
110:51
identity of being like learned and
110:54
people physically i don’t think anymore
110:57
what people don’t use the word sabra
110:59
much anymore oh well
111:00
i mean just whatever like that was yeah
111:03
i mean but it was found
111:04
israel was founded on a rule yes the new
111:07
jewish man
111:08
which was fun ironically i mean it’s the
111:10
worst of both worlds they like took the
111:12
most aggressive stuff that they kind of
111:14
i think attributed to the the you know
111:17
the jew who was in israel and not
111:20
alienated from the land you know
111:22
but then they they are like discriminate
111:24
against the actual people that they’re
111:26
trying to kind of ape
111:27
um okay so we did that one all right so
111:30
i mean
111:31
we can’t keep track of the lies because
111:32
it’d be too much but okay but i heard
111:34
that israel is an empire that colonized
111:36
arab land first of all no one says i
111:39
mean they talk about set of colonialism
111:41
and maybe how israel is like
111:43
part of you know it’s like the out
111:45
outpost for the united states it was the
111:47
outpost for
111:48
europe like for england and the us but
111:51
people don’t really talk about
111:53
imperialism with israel that’s not even
111:54
a thing it’s settler colonialism
111:56
but they’re trying to colonize it did
111:58
colonize an arab country
112:00
yes but here’s why they’re saying
112:02
imperialism empire instead of and
112:04
because this makes it confusing
112:08
sorry colonialism was settling
112:09
colonialism right
112:11
here’s where it is i forgot to highlight
112:12
this so here’s the
112:14
but i heard that israel is an empire
112:16
that colonized arab land and then the
112:18
the persian response empires require a
112:20
motherland a place where the empire
112:21
sends the goods they steal
112:23
and where they bring the culture and
112:24
language to oppress their colonial
112:26
subjects like britain and america or
112:27
south africa
112:28
and british and dutch israel is only
112:31
point
112:31
zero three of the middle east and the
112:33
only jewish state in the world there are
112:34
57 arab and muslim countries in the
112:36
middle east that are part of the arab
112:38
empire what the [ __ ] is the exactly
112:41
there’s an arab empire
112:42
israel is a nationalist entity while the
112:45
arab world is an
112:46
imperial one who are the who are the
112:50
arab world
112:51
where’s their home base that they’re
112:52
sending the goods to
112:54
they’re stealing from where and sending
112:56
them where
112:57
i mean these are such blatant lies it’s
112:59
kind of incredible
113:01
it’s stupid i mean it’s more than lies
113:03
it’s just it’s just words i mean it’s
113:05
well part of it is stupid
113:07
like the deborah messing people who who
113:09
put it out but then it’s cynical and i
113:11
think it is worth debunking right
113:12
because and it’s good in a way that we
113:14
get access to
113:15
these clearly coordinated talking points
113:17
israel is not an empire
113:19
i know i mean literally how is it but i
113:22
wrote another book
113:23
called war against the people yeah i
113:25
have that here in which i say
113:26
that israel serves the empire right
113:29
which is different
113:30
you see and that’s important because the
113:31
uh you know the occupied territory we
113:34
have to understand
113:35
is like a laboratory for israel’s
113:38
perfection of of high-tech
113:40
military weaponry surveillance equipment
113:43
technology
113:44
repression what happened in gaza last
113:46
week
113:47
had nothing to do with security right it
113:50
was a military exercise
113:51
in which israel tested all kinds of
113:54
military weaponry
113:56
um and if you see a you look up the
114:00
websites
114:00
of all the israeli arms manufacturers
114:03
they’ll all say
114:04
by our navigating systems they were
114:07
field tested in gaza
114:09
by our drones they were combat tested in
114:12
gaza
114:13
gaza is a is is a field laboratory for
114:16
israel
114:17
to to test including american f-35s
114:20
you know israel is flying f-35s and
114:22
bombing palestinians
114:24
before americans are flying the american
114:26
air force is flying f35
114:28
so that you gotta understand that the
114:30
occupation really serves
114:33
israel in terms of being this place
114:35
where you can do anything you want to
114:36
the palestinians
114:38
develop your weaponry for export and
114:41
it’s that weaponry for export that gives
114:43
israel the international status that it
114:45
does
114:46
both with the u.s but also you know all
114:48
over the world why does china support
114:51
israel and india support israel brazil
114:52
support israel
114:54
nigeria support israel they’re all
114:56
getting every country is getting
114:58
some kind of military security uh
115:01
assistance from israel or work or
115:03
technologies from israel
115:04
yeah and uh from that point of view
115:07
israel really serves the empire israel
115:10
helps the corporations
115:12
and the militaries and the capitalist
115:14
countries the global north
115:16
keep its hegemony over the global self
115:18
enforce
115:20
its hegemony uh and uh including the
115:23
global south within your country you
115:25
know the
115:26
rich over the poor you know you have
115:29
israel israel
115:30
uh the israeli police train the american
115:32
police
115:33
well no at georgia state university
115:36
atlanta you’ve got what’s called the
115:38
gilly center
115:39
which is an israeli center on the campus
115:42
of georgia state with a building
115:44
that’s the base for training the
115:46
american police
115:48
and plus american police come here so
115:50
that so that
115:52
enforcing capitalist hegemony
115:55
uh is true not just globally but it’s
115:58
true in every country
115:59
whatever the different needs of that of
116:01
that country and that
116:02
israel does serve the empire israel
116:05
isn’t an empire of course it’s a little
116:07
country
116:08
but it’s a very effective uh servant of
116:11
the input
116:12
yeah and it gets it’s just rewards yeah
116:15
um okay let’s see
116:19
uh all right let’s see so where okay
116:22
um here’s some more hasbro
116:27
okay um
116:32
you write an article about it yeah well
116:33
yeah i don’t so here’s the the
116:35
the skeptic again i don’t believe that
116:37
israel isn’t a colonial empire
116:39
i’ve read so much about it from
116:41
instagram again they’re like totally
116:43
trying to pathologize
116:44
the borders like they’re also projecting
116:46
that’s where you get your historical
116:48
sources guys but
116:49
not the rest of the world you can always
116:51
tell an empire by language
116:53
arabic is an imperial language like
116:55
english and french promoted through
116:57
settler colonialism
116:58
and imperial hegemony throughout the
117:00
middle ages since the 20th century
117:02
rise of pan-arabism leaders advocated
117:04
ethnic cleansing policies towards
117:06
indigenous peoples kurds berbers and
117:08
sudanese
117:08
they want to permanently reduce the
117:10
status and power of indigenous religious
117:12
groups
117:13
such as jews cops and maronites across
117:15
the region
117:16
this doesn’t suddenly okay here’s their
117:18
like they’re paying like lip service to
117:20
caring
117:21
about human rights this doesn’t suddenly
117:23
make every israeli policy okay or
117:25
minimize the death of palestinians but
117:27
knowing history helps us move
117:28
closer to peace that’s right right
117:32
you should all you should know frank
117:33
luntz do you know frank luntz yeah
117:35
franklin’s the um
117:36
the the pollster right he’s a republican
117:39
pollster yeah
117:40
and he’s the guy he did a whole
117:42
dictionary of husband
117:45
guy that really developed the strategy
117:47
of israeli husba
117:49
and part of his strategy he says it very
117:51
openly you can look it up on the uh
117:54
you know it’s on the internet his whole
117:56
thing is
117:58
don’t come out against to be against
118:00
arabs you have to come out if you’re
118:02
going to explain israel
118:03
sympathetic to arabs sympathetic to the
118:05
suffering of the palestinians
118:07
sympathetic to human rights right and
118:10
then within that framework
118:13
you do you see yeah yeah that’s very
118:15
well how
118:16
frank nunes is reflected in this kind of
118:19
right
118:20
he also i mean no no wonder um that
118:24
no wonder um he had you know he
118:27
he’s the one who found out he did those
118:28
studies about liberal
118:30
american jews checking their zionism at
118:32
the door instead of
118:34
for liberalism instead of checking their
118:35
liberalism at the door for zionism
118:37
which is a phenomenon called progressive
118:39
except on palestine exactly
118:41
yeah so people are really key to
118:43
understanding yeah
118:44
yeah yeah he also looks a lot like a
118:46
duck which is neither here nor there
118:48
but um okay um
118:52
let’s see okay what about the refugees i
118:55
heard
118:55
israel ethnically cleanse palestinians
118:58
in israel the number of palestinian
118:59
arabs increased since its foundation in
119:01
the middle
119:02
east the jews almost completely
119:04
disappeared palestinian refugees
119:06
unlike any other group of refugees in
119:08
the world is a new term
119:10
now describe any dis any decadent guys
119:13
you really need to proofread this
119:14
any decadent of palestinians even bella
119:17
and gigi
119:18
hadid are defined as refugees because
119:21
their father is a billionaire
119:22
palestinian
119:23
no that’s not why they’re defined as
119:24
refugees again
119:26
that is nonsense such a michigan awesome
119:30
yeah it’s so dumb
119:31
oh was i showing you okay but refugees
119:33
of course is not a new term the
119:34
palestinian refugees
119:36
are the largest from 48 of the largest
119:39
refugee population in the world
119:42
why do so many people spread these lies
119:43
online then because people like you
119:46
this is so israeli it’s such peak
119:48
israeli like
119:49
framing because people like you know
119:51
nothing about the conflict and resort to
119:53
infographics on instagram
119:55
including the one we are in and then
119:57
repeat those lies
119:58
don’t take my word for it research for
120:00
yourself find out all the facts don’t
120:02
support what’s popular because you want
120:03
to feel good about yourself
120:04
that’s stupid love you are better than
120:06
this you know better okay this is
120:08
turning into a very unhealthy dynamic uh
120:13
what the hell also you know the whole
120:15
line about how it’s complicated you
120:17
don’t get it you don’t live there we’re
120:18
in bomb shelters as norman finkelstein
120:20
says
120:20
would you rather live in a bomb shelter
120:22
for two weeks than uh an open-air prison
120:24
for 15 years
120:26
and also that’s just undermined by the
120:28
fact that you have
120:29
places you know organizations like
120:31
betselem people like you
120:33
uh who live there and are critical and
120:35
acknowledge all this stuff
120:36
so that’s just bs you know again they
120:38
try to guilt people
120:40
right but you know what israel is losing
120:42
it in the court of public opinion right
120:43
the thing we have to
120:45
keep in mind is that israel is not
120:47
winning here
120:49
israel is strong with governments for
120:51
the reasons i said because of its
120:53
exports military and security and
120:55
surveillance
120:56
it is not strong with peoples of the
120:58
world and that’s why it’s so shrill
121:00
that’s why it weaponizes anti-semitism
121:03
that’s why it it it tries to uh
121:06
to uh you know scare the jews into uh
121:09
into supporting israel and so on
121:11
it has no case right and i think i think
121:15
you know peter beinart is now writing
121:16
about this a lot
121:18
it’s clear i mean israel is losing if
121:20
he’s just losing american jews
121:22
forget it it’s really lost everybody
121:24
else and i tell you something else
121:25
israel’s starting to lose the
121:26
evangelicals too really why
121:29
evangelical groups that are beginning to
121:31
under
121:32
they’re also beginning to understand so
121:36
you know you can see this as has but i
121:39
don’t think you have to have the
121:40
illusion that it’s really being
121:42
effective
121:42
it’s effective among certain hillel kids
121:46
maybe
121:47
i don’t know about among who but i think
121:50
overall israel is really losing it and
121:53
this is simply a desperate
121:55
attempt to sort of claw its way out of
121:57
the corner but i think it shows more
121:59
desperation
122:00
the very fact that you have to resort to
122:02
hasbro and lies and this kind of stuff
122:06
shows the degree to which you know
122:07
you’re not in a very strong position
122:11
all right let’s see oops um we got some
122:14
nice
122:15
all right uh let’s see share okay
122:21
okay
122:24
all right back to the scholar um but i
122:27
also heard this conflict isn’t about
122:29
religion and hamas are freedom fighters
122:31
defending palestinians
122:32
girl you need to spend less time online
122:34
believing everything you read
122:36
hamas is a genocidal terrorist group
122:38
that launched over 1500 rockets on
122:40
israeli civilians last week and murdered
122:42
several
122:42
google hamas charter and see what they
122:44
say about jews knowing how lazy you are
122:46
here’s the quote
122:47
but as maxwell’s all pointed out like
122:49
they’ve updated their charter
122:52
yeah they’ve thrown out the charter to a
122:53
large degree that’s right
122:56
but also charters and what does the
122:58
charter mean charter is your
122:59
is you know the way you look at the
123:01
world and you can look at the world in
123:02
all kinds of ways
123:03
the point is what are your policies what
123:05
are you willing to
123:07
to do in the real world and hamas is
123:09
willing to deal with israel it is
123:10
nothing that does deal with israel well
123:12
i
123:16
hamas was called a terrorist group yeah
123:18
but i mean hamas was it was
123:20
was a group supported by israel i mean
123:22
it really is
123:23
israel created hamas became a terrorist
123:26
group when they won the
123:27
well they didn’t really win the
123:28
elections they got 40 but
123:30
they became the dominant party in the
123:32
election palestinian elections
123:34
that israel and the pa abbas
123:37
and the us didn’t like and that’s when
123:40
they were classified as a terrorist
123:42
group when they
123:43
when they won the elections in a
123:46
democratic election that even jimmy
123:48
carter
123:49
certified was was democratically one
123:52
they won
123:53
and that’s why they were called the
123:55
terrorist group in order to
123:56
nullify the election and then gaza was
123:59
put under a siege 15 years ago 2006.
124:03
so that’s the background it has nothing
124:05
to do with hamas policies
124:06
with their ideology there was a hamas
124:08
for a long time
124:10
before 2006 or at least 15 years or so
124:14
before that they were active israel knew
124:16
about them israel actually
124:18
gave the money and so on because they
124:19
want to be a counterweight to
124:21
fatah and the plo so that it has nothing
124:24
to do with that it had to do with the
124:25
fact that at a certain point
124:27
israel wanted to neutralize them and the
124:29
best way to neutralize the palestinian
124:31
group is to call them terrorists
124:33
and of course they had and this is this
124:35
is condoleezza rice
124:37
yeah the birthplace of a new democracy
124:39
and then leading right into obama
124:41
obama played and biden played as much of
124:44
a role as bush
124:45
or or rice did so that you can’t just
124:48
blame republicans for this
124:50
democrats have been more more uh
124:54
guilty of this kind of manipulation than
124:57
republicans actually uh let’s see
125:01
uh okay let’s just we’re almost done
125:03
with this painful thanks everyone for
125:05
bearing uh with me
125:06
with uh uh let’s see what’s with me
125:10
no i’m but i’m i’m subjecting i’m asking
125:12
you to respond to these so how do we
125:13
free palestine
125:14
well the majority of israelis support a
125:16
palestinian state besides israel in the
125:18
west bank
125:19
in gaza and you should support it too uh
125:23
who supports the palestinian state in
125:24
the west bank
125:27
you know maybe
125:30
maybe 20 of israelis
125:33
on a sunny day right
125:36
and they and even then if you told them
125:38
that means giving up malayam they’d say
125:40
no
125:42
i mean it’s just ridiculous they’re just
125:44
saying whatever they want to say
125:46
there’s no relationship to anything
125:49
that’s why it’s hard to argue with
125:50
because yeah well yeah there’s no facts
125:53
here there’s no
125:55
there’s no substance yeah you say
125:57
anything you want to say
125:58
well you just i mean you’re responding
126:00
to it by by showing the truth so
126:03
extremely the only way you can respond
126:05
that’s the problem we have
126:07
see these are sound bites right anybody
126:10
can look at this you read it
126:11
in a second you’re reading it to the
126:12
people without without you know
126:14
okay and it’s simple and it’s black and
126:17
white and et cetera and it has a
126:18
clear answer and this is right and this
126:20
is wrong and that’s it when i’m
126:22
responding to it
126:23
and i’m responding to it as briefly as i
126:25
can i have to get into whole lectures
126:28
right each of these lies each of these
126:30
words arab empire for example
126:32
each of these things require what is a
126:34
mizrahi jew requires
126:37
explanation and you don’t have that time
126:39
in the media right
126:40
you don’t know just radio pro most
126:42
programs i’m on don’t give me the time
126:44
you’re giving me
126:44
right yeah so we have to put in a sound
126:47
bite
126:48
right a complicated fact-based analysis
126:52
versus a simplistic bunch of lies that
126:54
israel can just say
126:56
right so it isn’t really a fair fight
126:57
right and we have to really have
126:59
strategies of how do you do that
127:01
we call it the reframing yeah we family
127:04
we’ve worked very hard
127:05
by the way my organization is the
127:07
israeli committee against housing i know
127:09
that’s what i i mess up
127:11
yeah and we work very hard on reframing
127:14
uh the conflict from a security framing
127:17
that israel
127:18
tries to produce to more of a human
127:20
rights crime than the colonial framing
127:23
that that you know gives you a whole set
127:25
once you get
127:26
once you get the framing right and the
127:28
logic that’s why i said look
127:29
that’s why this book is so important
127:32
that i have to say
127:33
because it gives you the political logic
127:35
once you get the logic of it as against
127:37
the zionist logic
127:39
yeah then you can understand yourself
127:41
all this stuff is nonsense that they’re
127:42
saying
127:43
i forgot it’s only if you don’t have the
127:45
the alternative logic that you get
127:47
caught up in you don’t know if what
127:49
they’re saying is true or not because
127:50
you don’t have a logic of your own
127:52
right yeah uh okay i think i
127:56
did you guys send me that book yet i
127:57
can’t remember
128:00
uh okay i gotta write to your publisher
128:02
okay so
128:03
back to we’re almost done with this and
128:05
yeah i mean but i think it’s just worth
128:07
i think sometimes it’s useful to show
128:08
how
128:09
incoherent and dishonest they are so
128:11
then you can dismiss everything else
128:12
they do
128:12
okay extreme nationalists on both sides
128:14
try to claim palestinians and israelis
128:16
don’t deserve national rights
128:18
if you see someone opposing the basic
128:20
human rights of either side
128:21
are saying they don’t exist stay away
128:24
yeah they don’t agree with israel says
128:26
palestinian human rights don’t exist
128:29
yeah and palestine doesn’t exist and
128:31
they’re saying the opposite
128:33
right you’re saying there are two sides
128:35
who equally worthy of living in dignity
128:37
and security
128:39
then the woman goes this is what my
128:40
therapist calls a breakthrough
128:42
palestinians and israelis both deserve
128:45
safety liberation freedom and justice
128:47
they have an interesting way the
128:48
israelis of showing that that’s the
128:50
frank lloyd’s thing
128:52
yeah it’s like the two-state thing it’s
128:54
like what does that mean it’s just
128:56
yeah so i think we’re done with this
128:58
weird abusive uh
129:00
relationship display but um
129:06
yeah and then the last thing um i wanted
129:09
to just review is
129:10
did you see this clip of um what is her
129:13
name
129:13
hold on ruth something this yiddish
129:17
scholar and by the way for people it’s
129:19
wise
129:20
yeah by the way for people who don’t
129:21
unders like the ashkenazi thing
129:23
basically think of ashkenazi as like
129:25
all this well it sounds problematic all
129:27
this like
129:28
einstein chomsky um freud all of these
129:32
guys
129:32
are yeah they’re european so like all
129:35
the stereotypes or like the
129:37
like the things that i will say like
129:39
lovingly about jewish
129:40
stuff it’s almost always applied to to
129:44
ashkenazic
129:45
larry david but um okay
129:48
so let me just look at this roots what
129:50
is it wise not so wise
129:52
yeah yeah yeah this is an amazing video
129:55
yeah i don’t know if you saw that oh my
129:58
god the dirsh
129:59
hold on does anyone have that video of
130:02
her
130:02
like talking about how jews have to
130:04
defend israel it was on the internet it
130:06
was going a little viral
130:08
um hold on yeah she’s famous for that
130:11
you get these uh mouthpieces
130:15
it’s like the asparagus look at this
130:17
hold on
130:21
but they don’t have much traction i mean
130:23
we can take comfort in that i think
130:25
i need to see that the last week oh here
130:27
it is i found it
130:29
fellow diaspora jews please watch this
130:31
from isaac to castro okay let me show
130:33
this
130:34
again it’s just useful to see to tap
130:36
into their
130:37
their hasbro their talking points okay
130:40
and then
130:41
sorry guys trigger warning this woman is
130:42
pretty uh unpleasant and then also the
130:45
irony is well we’ll talk about this at
130:46
the end
130:47
what a sellout this person is if she
130:48
cares about jewish culture i mean yeah
130:50
sorry yiddish culture
130:51
okay and you will say what you want us
130:55
to make you look
130:56
good that’s not my job your job
130:59
is to make us look good that’s his
131:02
reality our job is not to make you look
131:04
good american jews what do you have to
131:06
worry about
131:07
your job is to make us look good and
131:10
here’s how you do it
131:12
every one of us has to serve three years
131:14
in the army two years in the army
131:16
some of us five years and then for the
131:17
rest of our lives
131:19
you have got to serve two or three years
131:21
in the army of words
131:23
you’ve got to learn to fight the
131:25
political battle
131:26
which is even more important at this
131:28
point than the military battle
131:31
we’ll fight the military battle we’re
131:33
not asking you necessarily to come
131:35
and be lone soldiers although some of
131:37
you can you’ve got to learn
131:39
how to fight back on the campuses how to
131:41
make the arguments
131:43
now they keep shifting you know it
131:46
the the ground keeps shifting under us
131:48
they keep
131:50
language intersectionality wasn’t even a
131:52
word
131:53
ten years ago now suddenly it’s
131:54
intersectionality you’ve got to stay on
131:56
top of it
131:57
and you know how we train for the army
132:00
we don’t train for defensive warfare
132:03
if the if war against israel ever had to
132:06
be fought on israeli soil
132:09
do i have to tell you it’s it’s an
132:12
impossibility
132:13
so it’s the same thing don’t let the war
132:16
of words
132:17
ever be fought about israel’s nature
132:20
let it be fought about why you can’t
132:22
accept israel
132:23
why you have to single out this tiny
132:25
people
132:26
try to find israel on the map it’s
132:29
hardly there
132:30
you know we used to play this game
132:32
where’s waldo
132:33
you know you know there’s where is waldo
132:36
on the map
132:37
are you going to really tell me that
132:38
this is the country you want to blame
132:40
push deal teach them how to defend
132:44
by attacking teach them really what one
132:47
says as in
132:48
fencing you’ve got to do that you’ve got
132:50
to make demands on them they’ve got to
132:52
serve for three years in the army of
132:54
words
132:56
no what do you mean no the army army we
132:58
are well i i i
133:02
cannot even start
133:05
with this
133:08
who is that guy that’s a guy who’s like
133:10
compete with this passion and compassion
133:13
compassion is that the guy who like
133:14
replaced um was replaced by this
133:18
avigor uh lieberman no this is sharansky
133:21
who’s that no i know but isn’t he the
133:23
guy who was like in the same party as
133:24
lieberman he was originally
133:26
yeah he’s a real sellout because you
133:28
know he was a prisoner of conscience and
133:30
right in the soviet union
133:32
oh yeah very close to sahara sahara was
133:36
the
133:36
the main human rights defender
133:39
uh you know in the soviet union yeah and
133:42
uh
133:44
and everybody including me i mean
133:46
american jews fought very much to get
133:48
sharansky released as a prisoner of zion
133:51
and he got released and he came to
133:53
israel and became a super
133:55
xenophobic right-wing guy who
133:59
who violated every every
134:03
concept of human rights you know again
134:05
he was he was the greatest example if
134:08
you want the example
134:09
that renee cassen brings up of who
134:12
understand human rights
134:13
but who want to step outside and say
134:15
well it doesn’t apply to us
134:17
because we’re special that’s strong a
134:19
terrible terrible guy
134:21
you know really he really betrayed the
134:24
whole
134:24
sakharov and the whole world of human
134:26
rights all the people who supported him
134:28
he betrayed
134:29
yeah you know by becoming a right-wing
134:32
uh
134:32
racist racist he owes you guys a lot of
134:34
time back
134:36
you wasted hours on him just kidding um
134:39
okay so yeah that’s uh and what’s so
134:41
interesting is that like again
134:42
this woman’s dedicated she’s like a
134:44
yiddish culture professor
134:46
how are you going to defend this country
134:47
that dropped you know that threw
134:49
yiddish under the bus for hebrew
134:52
you know it was illegal in the early
134:54
years of israel to speak healing
134:56
jesus christ it was the only country in
134:58
the world where jews could be arrested
135:00
for performing
135:02
that’s amazing again it’s like the
135:04
anti-semitism
135:05
is stronger than the no sorry the
135:07
zionism is
135:08
a bigger priority than stopping
135:09
anti-semitism that’s right someone was
135:11
telling me that that
135:12
famous because it was anti-jewish
135:15
right it was anti-jewish and it’s still
135:18
anthony it still is yeah
135:20
well there was something right
135:23
yeah and it puts jews in danger it does
135:26
and also
135:27
there’s i didn’t know this at that
135:28
famous boat that fdr turned around they
135:30
want some
135:31
like zionist wanted pressure attempt to
135:33
turn it around also yeah
135:36
because they didn’t because they wanted
135:37
people to have to go
135:39
uh yeah oh this is another talking point
135:41
that’s pretty common
135:42
um remember the problem could also be
135:45
solved by palestine egypt relations
135:47
so it’s like oh you know egypt is worse
135:49
on palestine their
135:50
their blockade is worse or they’ll say
135:53
none of the arab countries want them
135:56
as if that makes it’s not really
135:57
relevant
135:59
well i mean you know the problem is that
136:01
there’s an alienation between the
136:02
governments and the people in those
136:04
countries
136:05
the egyptian government does not
136:06
represent the egyptian people
136:08
there but there are a lot of dictators
136:09
and autocrats in the in the arab world
136:11
that run the arab world
136:13
that are in bed with israel and the
136:15
united states and
136:17
trump and everybody else and uh but that
136:20
doesn’t
136:20
uh apply to the arab peoples for whom
136:23
the palestinians are very important
136:25
yeah um all right well yeah this has
136:28
been great
136:29
people want recommendations of books
136:31
first of all of jeff’s books anything
136:33
else that you recommend
136:35
well there’s a there’s a number of books
136:37
i mean there’s a new book by nora
136:39
huracan i really wrote oh yeah justice
136:41
for some is that
136:42
i got to get that yeah about a erasing
136:45
palestinians
136:46
using international law to to erase
136:49
palestinians
136:50
uh my book is decolonizing israel
136:53
liberating palestine
136:54
that’s one book another book is war
136:57
against the people about the israeli
136:59
arms industry um elon poppe’s book of
137:03
course the ethnic cleansing of palestine
137:06
avi shlaim who’s another israeli
137:08
historian
137:10
s-h-l-a-i-m who has a book called the
137:12
iron
137:13
the iron wall about israel’s relations
137:16
to
137:16
the arab world over the years what’s it
137:18
called i mean i know how do you spell
137:20
his last name i know he is but how do
137:21
you spell it
137:22
s h a a s
137:25
h l a i m h
137:34
yeah and then what is it the iron the
137:37
iron wall
137:38
and he’s he’s an iraqi jew
137:43
oh i didn’t know that um you know so he
137:46
he’s writing his biography now
137:47
autobiography which should be
137:48
interesting i mean norman stillman is a
137:52
is another scholar that deals with
137:54
rocky jews if people are interested in
137:55
looking into that
137:57
um i think he’s got a book called jews
138:00
from arab lands
138:02
something like that jeff tell ya thanks
138:05
for turning me on to
138:06
at the drive-in back in 2003
138:09
we hung out at diwan in west jerusalem
138:12
one night
138:13
who’s the idea
138:18
is my son oh okay do you name him after
138:21
netanyahu’s son just kinda
138:22
um yeah yeah yeah
138:27
um any online pod program sign me up
138:30
um all right leave gordon has a
138:34
book on occupation how do you spell his
138:36
name
138:38
gordon g-o-r-d-o-n
138:41
he has several good books on occupation
138:44
and also on the israeli surveillance
138:46
industry and so on
138:48
i mean there’s a lot of books you know
138:49
we have in east jerusalem was called the
138:51
educational bookshop
138:52
oh wow just from the the floor to the
138:55
ceiling
138:56
is that where you’re in front of right
138:57
now is that where you are now
138:59
no no i’m at home in my study but uh the
139:02
educated bookstore is is filled with
139:04
books on on on palestine it’s not that
139:06
there’s
139:07
a lack of things to read and of course a
139:10
lot of palestinian
139:12
uh you know writers as well that we have
139:14
to
139:15
we always have to mention yeah nora
139:18
but they’re uh what about diane um
139:25
has she written books or she’s i mean
139:27
she’s wrong she has certain articles
139:29
yeah
139:29
really fascinating stuff yeah you know
139:33
some of the young palestinian
139:34
intellectuals there’s a a website called
139:37
al shabaka which is like a
139:40
think tank but it’s online new articles
139:42
and thoughts
139:43
of young palestinian intellectuals which
139:46
people should uh
139:48
you know could look at if they’re
139:49
interested in what
139:51
young intellectual palestinians are
139:53
thinking these days
139:54
what how do you spell that then
140:00
s-h-a-b-a-k-a
140:15
or not as many yeah yeah well
140:18
of course is you guys oh alia bonima
140:20
yeah he’s been on the show a bunch yeah
140:22
um i mean and he’s yeah he’s written two
140:27
books
140:27
right right um i’ll put his name in
140:30
there
140:31
um all right great jeff thank you so
140:34
much for this
140:36
all right thanks for having me check out
140:37
his website what is it
140:39
uh your website um my website
140:42
yeah oh i put it well i put one thing
140:45
again
140:46
i can i see ahd the israeli committee
140:50
i know not the international coalition
140:53
as i said
140:54
against housing okay icad what is it um
140:58
it’s really coalition against housing
141:00
demolition right that’s house
141:01
demolitions
141:02
oh cool i know what al is i know al is a
141:07
definite article yeah all right i’ll
141:10
i’ll take some questions i’ll i’ll stay
141:12
on this i really appreciate this jeff
141:14
okay yeah very much
141:15
thanks yeah definitely yeah are you
141:17
coming to the states anytime soon
141:21
when i can okay yeah how do you say who
141:24
knows in hebrew
141:26
how do you say that yeah
141:30
okay yeah yeah with an american accent
141:35
do you have an american accent yeah yeah
141:37
people yeah
141:38
but it’s funny because you say hey in
141:40
hebrew
141:41
[Music]
141:43
yeah yeah it’s the filler word instead
141:45
of uh
141:46
yeah who’s mandy kahan
141:51
anyway do you know that person i’m not
141:54
sure
141:55
all right okay oh wait last thing for
141:58
you
141:58
sorry tell us about um you got arrested
142:01
in the
142:01
in the only democracy in the uh in the
142:04
middle east for bds materials
142:07
yeah i get arrested occasionally yeah
142:10
yeah i was giving a tour
142:11
in the malayan settlement and
142:14
in malaya we’re looking over jerusalem
142:17
and i and i talk about bds
142:20
and um um
142:23
yeah then the tour was over as a group
142:26
from the uk
142:27
and they got on their bus and left and i
142:29
decided i’m gonna go home on the public
142:31
bus so i got on the public bus
142:33
the police came stopped the bus took me
142:35
off
142:37
and arrested me for bdsing
142:41
and now i have a
142:45
secret weapon that is i have another son
142:47
whose name is ishai
142:49
who’s the editor of the english language
142:51
website of haaretz
142:53
oh wow what’s by the way if you want a
142:56
great source of information
142:58
read it’s in english yeah okay
143:01
but it’s worth it i know it’s annoying
143:03
can you what’s your what’s that son’s
143:05
name
143:07
be shy let’s see if we can maybe from
143:10
one helper to another you can give me a
143:12
free
143:12
uh thingy so i gotta rest in this that
143:15
is carly shy
143:17
did you say do you know who my son is
143:21
so uh that guy had a lot of publicity
143:24
and you know they let me go
143:25
i mean it wasn’t there was nothing
143:26
illegal to it and fact they got really
143:29
reprimanded by the justice department
143:31
because
143:32
it’s not illegal to talk about it at bds
143:35
but uh but it created a whole a whole
143:39
in other words it’s all grist for the
143:41
mill yeah you’re an activist you have to
143:43
really understand not just
143:45
when you get into trouble okay you know
143:48
that’s part of what you what
143:49
that’s part of what you do but how do
143:51
you leverage that
143:53
into more publicity in the more you know
143:56
and uh
143:57
every arrest and every hassle you know
144:00
shouldn’t just
144:00
end there it should become very very
144:03
public
144:04
right and that’s part of the strategy of
144:06
our husband
144:07
right yeah exactly yeah our husband yeah
144:10
it’s only illegal to be dds in the us
144:12
it’s true as we know from abby uh martin
144:15
right you’re right that’s right um all
144:17
right thank you so much jeff all right
144:18
thank you bye thank you all the people
144:21
listening yeah thanks yeah
144:22
okay talk to him great yes i
144:26
all right uh let me i don’t know how to
144:29
get off i’ll do this i know let’s see
144:31
oh there ah wait no how do i
144:35
oh i’ll just unselect you okay all right
144:38
guys that was great right
144:40
um oh yeah yeah we didn’t you
144:43
mentioned that the new york times it’s
144:46
not i
144:46
is it is it new york times person i
144:49
think the whole new york times office is
144:50
in a place that used to be
144:52
um someone can correct me but that used
144:56
to be
144:57
inhabited by palestinians um
145:00
anyway yeah so this is my early stream
145:03
today
145:04
you know i’m still not in new york city
145:06
i should go back but because i’m still
145:08
not in new york city i just scream all
145:09
the time
145:11
um uh
145:14
oh that was beyond great thank you yeah
145:16
that was good right
145:18
so i’ll figure i’ll have to figure it
145:20
out i’ll either um you guys i gotta push
145:22
the patreon a little bit come on all
145:23
this free stuff
145:25
patreon.com the katie helper show again
145:27
that’s patreon.com
145:28
the katie helper show um
145:31
what did you say katie or two well i’m
145:33
not gonna read it because uh
145:35
it’s not nice what you saw was excellent
145:37
are you jewish person who said that
145:40
what i saw was excellent david hi your
145:42
rig
145:43
your regular david lairfield lairfeld
145:46
are you jewish i’m just curious
145:48
um because it’s very uh what they saw
145:52
was excellent
145:54
um
145:57
okay um why would i go back well it’s
146:00
safe now in new york city right
146:03
do know why peter beinart came out
146:06
supporting one state solution new york
146:07
times roughly a year ago
146:08
i don’t know is that a trick question um
146:18
um
146:22
thank you for super sticker um
146:29
i’m a non-jewish binary human and
146:32
enjoyed it
146:33
from an american perspective there you
146:35
go
146:37
yeah jack’s been streaming a lot i gotta
146:38
get him back in um
146:41
let’s see
146:45
you should give me a review eagle hawk
146:48
condor
146:50
all right let’s see anything else um
146:54
he changed the position came forward
146:55
supporting one state not as a question
146:56
yeah i thought that was impressive
146:58
um i know you weren’t trying to be mean
147:00
that’s funny yeah um
147:03
uncle disclosed location yeah i can’t
147:04
tell people where i am
147:06
i didn’t realize that until someone was
147:08
like don’t say that
147:09
um katie halper how would you recommend
147:12
that we can spread the truth when so
147:13
many people will instantly use the bs
147:15
and the sentences and brand
147:16
how do you manage to get where you are i
147:18
mean i think honestly you should just
147:20
say
147:20
i stand like i keep saying this which is
147:22
that i know it’s probably oh wait
147:24
your first watch got you know what you
147:26
need to do then down with apartheid
147:28
israel
147:28
you gotta hit and everyone needs to do
147:30
this hit subscribe and to
147:32
because you don’t want to miss these
147:33
streams right so you hit subscribe
147:35
you do subscribe and then the bell okay
147:37
and then you’ll
147:38
know about them um
147:41
what kd what what fact uh katie that’s
147:44
true chris hedges just mentions that
147:45
same fact too which fact
147:47
my my point was that like the whole
147:50
argument about well two things ready i
147:53
have a couple points one is that
147:56
it’s anti-semitic to equate jewish
147:57
identity with blind support of israel
148:00
and um the other point that i make is
148:05
you know uh um
148:10
the whole argument about you’re not here
148:12
it’s complicated it’s not really
148:14
complicated from a human rights internet
148:16
like an international human rights
148:17
perspective for one
148:19
and uh it’s also it’s like if you have
148:23
if you have israelis and you have
148:26
um hold on a second i don’t usually
148:28
stream at this time so i don’t usually
148:30
overlap with
148:31
george galloway okay let me let me let
148:33
me let me let me uh
148:34
focus if you have israeli organizations
148:39
like bet selem saying
148:42
that uh israel is an apartheid state
148:47
then that’s it that whole argument about
148:50
it being like you know
148:52
uh israelis don’t you don’t know what’s
148:55
like to be israelites like okay i don’t
148:56
know what it’s like to be israeli and
148:58
i’ll stand with betselem they do know
149:00
what’s like to be israeli because they
149:01
are israeli
149:04
what’s this uh i’m telling you hit the
149:06
like button and didn’t get notified just
149:08
happened to see the stream of my sub
149:09
list yeah i don’t know well usually it’s
149:12
um uh it’s that
149:16
it’s evenings on uh seven
149:19
it’s 7 pm on thursdays and sundays but
149:21
i’ve been doing extra streams
149:22
have miko palette on rasheed khalidi oh
149:24
yeah i love you katie thank you mr
149:26
thirteen fng katie joe sacco would be a
149:30
cool guest in promoting his graphic
149:31
novels about palestine one of chris
149:32
hedges might be cultural and wishing for
149:34
views okay joe sacco i’ll write that
149:36
down
149:37
um who who said the
149:40
the the thing about um
149:43
what is the thing about um
149:48
what’s the chris hedges thing can
149:49
someone tell me who’s the person who
149:51
wrote that in there that he mentions
149:52
this fact
149:54
anyone
149:57
anyone can anyone where is that
150:03
i’m not in new michelle i’m two i’m over
150:06
two hours from the city
150:10
um
150:16
um anyone know
150:20
uh all right wait it’s coming soon
150:26
so that’s my question that’s my
150:27
suggestion about how to
150:30
wha okay what’s the fact here who wrote
150:32
that mr
150:33
13fng can you tell me what the fact is
150:35
cause i’m just curious
150:37
um
150:41
alright these are hurting my ears i need
150:43
better headphones that don’t do this
150:46
all right i guess i’ll never know oh
150:48
wait what’s the chris hedges thing
150:50
i’ll never know what’s the fact
150:53
oh my god yeah what is the fact can
150:55
anyone figure it out
151:06
oh he says that wait no this is this
151:08
true does he really say jeff is my dad
151:14
come on
151:19
okay i don’t know what you guys are
151:20
saying oh
151:22
oh i think he was talking about
151:23
washington post bureau chief living
151:25
palestinian clinton’s apartment got
151:30
yes actually that’s true katie halper if
151:31
you notice the coordinate campaign to
151:32
change the narrative to supposed
151:34
anti-submitted confrontations
151:35
and slogans over the past couple days
151:37
yes in fact i’m going to have a guest on
151:39
to talk about that
151:43
yeah i agree that uh that long island
151:45
well okay
151:46
um all right cool
151:49
thank you guys um true overhead yeah
151:55
um who’s ryan dawson everyone keeps
151:58
asking about this person i have no idea
152:00
who is
152:02
i’m gonna have a great
152:11
yeah i have noticed that
152:18
alrighty israelis don’t know what it’s
152:21
like to be palestinian is the problem
152:24
actually yeah i meant to play this while
152:25
yumna was on where is it she posted
152:28
something good
152:29
i mean oh where’s humanity because i
152:34
i promised that i would play this and i
152:37
didn’t so let me do that but first
152:39
here i’ll show this video
153:07
i was on the seed yes i need to have
153:09
sauna seed on let’s see
153:15
one second guys
153:21
who’s duolifa
153:25
who’s do alipa anyone know sorry it’s
153:27
like embarrassing she has
153:36
oh yeah
153:46
one second
153:50
okay here this is uh this is painful
153:53
who who who made this tick tock did you
153:57
all right let me show you this what
154:00
they’re experiencing
154:02
all right
154:07
she’s albanian but what does she do
154:18
yeah again i i mean i literally put that
154:20
in my bio today that we’re not related
154:21
not that i
154:22
uh that’s there’s anything wrong wait
154:25
but why did what did do a lipa do did
154:27
she do something with um
154:29
oh and who call them anti-semites i’ll
154:32
go i’ll have to make a list of them
154:35
to you know redeem um
154:38
okay what was i looking for oh okay
154:47
everyone follow you know if you’re uh
154:48
not already
154:53
yeah i’ll try to have them on okay i
154:55
will try to have roger what’s going on
154:57
okay talk to two ten-year-olds about
155:01
what they’re experiencing
155:02
one israeli and one palestinian nadine
155:05
abdultev has become the face of gaza’s
155:07
children i’m only 10.
155:09
after going viral in this video posted
155:11
online
155:12
cbs news met nadine near her
155:14
neighborhood which is now in bruins
155:16
i want to feel safe for like one day at
155:19
least
155:20
i never feel safe in my own home what’s
155:23
it like
155:24
in your house it’s very scary
155:27
renault swizzle lives in southern israel
155:30
just a few miles away from gaza
155:32
she gets scared every time hamas rockets
155:35
are fired near her home
155:36
she says she knows what she experiences
155:38
is nothing compared to what nadine does
155:41
and when we asked her what she’d say to
155:42
her if they were to ever meet
155:44
i wouldn’t say laughing that just was i
155:47
just hugged her
155:49
and tell her that i know what you feel
155:54
i thought instead said that she didn’t
155:56
understand what she felt talk to two
155:57
ten-year-olds about what they’re
155:58
experiencing
155:59
anyway so then uh yuma writes
156:04
uh human rights maybe they’ll meet
156:08
at a military checkpoint if needing even
156:09
gets to leave gaza when ranana
156:12
turns 18 and becomes a soldier occupying
156:13
needings land or one in eight years
156:15
renault is in the air force and calls
156:17
nadine
156:17
to let her know her house is going to be
156:18
bombed again yeah this is uh
156:21
this is awful this video of um let me
156:24
just show this
156:26
uh what’s her name nadine right let’s
156:28
see
156:29
it’s this is an awful video but everyone
156:31
should watch this it’s
156:37
i keep thinking this this keyboard in
156:40
front of me is
156:41
nadine
156:45
okay here this is just
157:05
uh we don’t need the music though let’s
157:06
see
157:12
this again if she were israeli this
157:13
would be all over
157:16
the media okay on
157:20
oh i’m already sharing it did you guys
157:22
hear the audio hold on
157:40
i’m always sick amongst i don’t know i
157:42
can’t do anything
157:45
of this what do you expect me to do
157:48
fix it i’m only 10.
157:52
i can’t even do anything in this more i
157:55
just want to be a doctor
157:56
or anything to help my people my cat
158:00
i’m just pissed i don’t even know what
158:04
to do
158:06
i get scared but not really that much i
158:09
get
158:10
i do anything for my people but i don’t
158:12
know what to do i’m just 10.
158:15
understand
158:18
all of this when i see i will cherry cry
158:21
every day
158:23
saying to myself why do we deserve this
158:25
why
158:26
what did we do to this
158:29
my family said they just they just hate
158:31
us they just don’t like us because we
158:33
are muslims
158:34
why does muslims act for you like that
158:40
you see all of the kids around me
158:41
they’re just kids why wouldn’t you just
158:44
send a message to them and kill them
158:47
it’s not fair it’s not fair
158:53
yeah i mean it’s like overwhelming it’s
158:57
heartbreaking and also there have been
158:59
all these kids who were like in trauma
159:01
programs
159:03
that uh were killed
159:06
like all these organizations that did
159:08
stuff for like working with
159:10
kids and helping them trying to help
159:11
them with trauma
159:13
can you imagine you work like met just
159:15
imagine that and all these other things
159:17
of like people who were
159:18
featured in like you know they were
159:21
persecuted by
159:22
the israeli uh
159:26
military you know like locked up for
159:28
whatever reason as aliyah bonima points
159:30
out
159:30
i think israel is like the only country
159:33
that
159:34
i should look this up
159:37
hold on israel it’s like the only
159:39
country that [ __ ]
159:41
let me see let me see if he’s up
160:18
um i don’t know it’s like the only
160:20
country that like
160:22
it’s not that tries kids because
160:25
uh
160:28
because the us does that too they lock
160:31
up kids as adults is that what it is
160:33
yeah does anyone have any footage of
160:34
this of the continued um
160:38
uh harassment
160:42
also there’s this video of um
160:46
hold on what is it um
160:50
hold on
160:58
oh hold on
161:02
there was a fishbowl they had their
161:03
fishbowl uh palestine uh what is a gaza
161:08
[Music]
161:14
fish
161:16
anyone watching speak arabic
161:21
hold on these all these things really
161:23
need to be subtitled
161:26
um i mean what am i like yeah obviously
161:28
people have uh
161:30
they saved their fish all i know is they
161:31
saved their hold on
161:33
oh i found a subtitled one this is also
161:36
heartbreaking
161:37
um and this isn’t like tragedy porn it’s
161:40
just that
161:41
uh i think it’s important to show these
161:42
things because
161:45
palestinians are so dehumanized oh you
161:48
do okay i found a
161:49
um obviously uh okay
161:53
and it’s like i mean it is i’m not
161:55
romanticizing it at all but it is like
161:57
incredible how resilient people are and
162:00
i keep saying this i’ll probably get
162:01
arrested for saying this i’m not saying
162:03
this to sound tough or like
162:04
oh daring point but i really am
162:07
um surprised that there isn’t more
162:12
of mo i mean i don’t know how people
162:13
deal with this without engaging in
162:15
certain behavior that’s illegal
162:17
okay that’s not a call for anything i’m
162:20
just saying
162:21
that it’s surprise it legit surprises me
162:24
that’s
162:24
that’s what i’m saying i’m not just
162:26
saying that also to knock in trouble
162:28
it’s my real thoughts okay
162:29
let me make sure i have the audio on for
162:38
this
162:47
[Music]
162:52
cute that girl oh i didn’t know they
162:54
talk about resilience
162:55
[Music]
162:58
she looks a lot like my mom did his
163:00
little kids
163:15
anyway that’s kind of amazing
163:20
um uh someone pointed out and it’s true
163:22
actually someone should make this
163:24
a side by side does anyone notice um
163:27
how much um
163:34
oh this is nice this is so nice katie i
163:36
think you authentically have the most
163:38
progressive morally inhumane approach to
163:40
the issue you do this by including
163:41
humanitarianism thanks
163:43
um what was i just saying
163:50
no i hadn’t seen that video when i said
163:51
the brazilians think for real i hadn’t
163:52
seen it
163:53
so um half of gaza is kids yeah it’s
163:57
awful
163:58
i mean
164:02
uh okay brad just sent me something this
164:04
is okay yeah this is pretty amazing hold
164:06
on
164:08
i wonder if we could side by side it and
164:10
uh we could in a couple minutes but for
164:12
now i’m just gonna show it
164:16
hold on uh can you screen grab you
164:19
how do i do this
164:22
how do i upload this someone needs to do
164:24
a thing a side by side of
164:26
um oh i know what i’ll do i know what i
164:28
can do i know what i can do
164:30
check out the four-part exam the israel
164:32
lobby in america at the electronic and
164:33
default al jazeera fb
164:35
and youtube had to take it down thanks
164:36
to israel right i know what this is
164:39
i know what i can do here hold on
164:43
i download the thingy and then i drag it
164:46
into a window
164:49
that’s what i did hold on
164:57
okay i export it
165:02
you know what i should just do it right
165:04
now and preview
165:12
i mean this is really good but it’s fun
165:14
i mean this doesn’t even capture
165:15
their resemblance but hold on one second
165:17
because there are other shots of her it
165:18
does but
165:19
sorry i sound like such a complainer
165:21
hold on
165:24
all right
165:36
if i had more time i’d do something
165:37
really nice in canva or something but
165:45
one second
165:56
thanks again thank you to brad for this
166:16
it is actually pretty stunning the
166:17
resemblance you’ll see what i’m talking
166:19
about one second
166:30
i learned this really cool trick that
166:31
people probably know which is that you
166:33
can just drag
166:34
an image i think i’m hopeful i’m right
166:36
into a um
166:39
into a window like a chrome window and
166:41
it just becomes like
166:42
a url
167:06
export
167:15
okay excuse me
167:23
let me see is this how you doing okay
167:32
yeah
167:34
so this is a side by side of nadine and
167:37
anne frank
167:38
that um i think humanities or it was
167:42
humanities or
167:43
um or um
167:52
or chomsky video
168:00
um
168:03
this one too yeah
168:13
yeah humanity requested it i
168:16
see here he or she here no right
168:33
yeah i just need to wear headphones that
168:35
are little and fit near
168:42
here’s another one
168:47
there’s another one again thanks to brad
168:50
um
168:59
yeah so thanks to humanity
169:02
for that and um i don’t know what this
169:06
i’m not gonna respond to something about
169:08
uh
169:11
um
169:19
what is that yeah that’s anne frank and
169:20
nadine um
169:23
from gaza
169:26
um
169:34
so we in the western media world have to
169:36
speak english speaking
169:38
mountain
169:45
oh yeah does anyone have um does anyone
169:48
have
169:49
oh that’s very nice of you i hope you
169:52
know
169:52
what an essential job you were doing and
169:54
the difference you were making thank you
169:56
people watching
169:57
we’ll remember these facts you were
169:58
sharing for the rest of their lives and
170:00
tell others that’s very nice um
170:04
um tweet what out i will tweet this
170:08
out uh what was i gonna say oh does
170:11
anyone have any any
170:12
um
170:15
uh any twitter of uh i mean any image
170:19
sorry does anyone have any footage of
170:23
any links to footage any tweets
170:26
uh that
170:29
are that show a lot of stuff let me look
170:34
for
170:56
what’s today’s date it’s uh now it’s the
170:59
late
170:59
uh oh let’s see
171:03
okay okay this is from sunday oh you
171:05
don’t have to have it it’s omar
171:08
omar gotta have him out back on from
171:11
i’m eu okay so this is
171:14
um recent
171:27
this is from a very good resource
171:28
everyone should be following middle east
171:29
i and then imeu should be following too
171:32
all right
171:36
israeli settlers flanked by security
171:37
forces stormed the courtyards of al-aqsa
171:39
on sunday earlier israeli police
171:40
reportedly arrested at least six
171:41
palestinian worshipers
171:43
the palestinian farm ministry condemned
171:44
the move saying it was aimed at
171:46
provoking worshipers
171:47
yeah okay
171:49
[Music]
171:50
jesus christ
172:06
[Music]
172:12
uh
172:17
[Music]
172:40
so
172:41
[Music]
172:48
[Music]
172:52
[Applause]
172:56
uh i realize in case we do turn this
172:58
into audio only um
173:00
i’ll read out loud what it says a group
173:02
of israeli settlers flanked by armed
173:03
israeli security forces stormed the
173:05
courtyards of al-aqsa mosque on sunday
173:08
earlier israeli police reportedly
173:10
attacked palestinian worshippers
173:12
arresting six of them according to local
173:14
media
173:16
oh my god oh they were kneeling on that
173:17
guy’s head by the way very george floyd
173:19
derek chovin wow
173:22
worshipers under the age of 45 were also
173:24
reportedly
173:26
prevented from entering the mosque
173:30
amid titan security measures at the
173:32
gates
173:34
the christian islamic organization for
173:35
support of jerusalem said this reflects
173:38
quote israel’s insistent and quote i’m
173:39
violating the sanctity of the moscow
173:41
chapels
173:41
and its insistence on increasing tension
173:43
in the city
173:46
the palestinian foreign ministry said
173:50
the actions of the settlers were aimed
173:51
at provoking worshipers
173:54
and showed a disregard for efforts made
173:55
to establish calm
173:58
since 2003 israel has allowed settlers
174:00
into al-aqsa mosque
174:02
uh sorry complex
174:06
under the protection of israeli security
174:08
forces
174:10
overriding the authority of the islamic
174:11
endowment department
174:14
all right that’s nice pretty on brand
174:18
all right anyway um i think this was uh
174:21
let’s see
174:21
did joanne nayeri the jewish people
174:23
showed the same resilience as
174:24
palestinians when they were persecuted
174:26
by the fascist
174:28
um
174:32
uh
174:38
no i did not see this uh
174:42
kd you should watch the pro palestinian
174:44
pro-israeli rallies in canada where the
174:47
thick accented pro-israeli told the
174:48
pro-palestinians to go back to palestine
174:50
right but i thought
174:52
uh that country doesn’t exist
174:55
um cody wolf child says as american
175:01
uh indians we know we can’t fight back
175:03
with rockets like hamas but the same
175:05
american attitude
175:06
that condemns hamas military keeps our
175:09
eyes off why we
175:10
won’t let natives sue for land title
175:15
um anyway
175:20
okay well thank you guys so much for
175:23
watching um
175:25
uh my mondo voice description okay i’ll
175:29
fix that
175:30
but thanks for watching guys make sure
175:32
you subscribe
175:34
subscribe share like the stream that’s
175:36
so it’s so easy
175:37
um and uh
175:41
what else um
175:45
what else um please consider becoming
175:49
becoming patreon supporters and in fact
175:51
let me read the patreon supporters i got
175:53
so far
175:54
okay cool so i want to thank nazeel
175:59
i want to thank uh oh sunny days kind of
176:03
uh um and i want to thank james i want
176:07
to thank
176:07
andrew yeah
176:11
what else who else let’s see
176:14
guys you have the chance if you want i
176:16
can read your names on screen
176:21
okay i want to thank uh if you if you
176:23
donate now
176:24
uh i want to thank james b
176:27
i want to thank um
176:32
duncan i want to thank andrew j
176:36
i want to thank catherine i want to
176:38
thank douglas
176:41
i want to thank nabeel i want to thank
176:47
colton yuri omar
176:51
sung philip fancy
176:56
callie m jack
176:59
sephora a wise david
177:02
s skiaboo
177:06
commandante
177:13
um
177:18
tony s for upping it uh gabriel
177:22
ross oops i try not to and p
177:28
sam e
177:44
sarah b
177:50
billy gene carl
177:54
fawad
177:58
ebb casey spencer david
178:03
these aren’t all from today these are
178:04
from last week a seem
178:07
cinema
178:11
i’m not gonna i’m not gonna unthank
178:13
people who edit it down
178:18
c cory p
178:21
ken a
178:29
johnny s for upping it
178:34
suzanne
178:40
stefan
178:43
kathy lewis for the upgrade
178:47
um
178:51
excuse me um goalie
179:08
austin jen i’m going back to early may
179:12
uh william j michael w
179:20
liam did i do this already i think maybe
179:22
i did
179:25
fetish magic jonathan b
179:30
muhammad e yeah i did these before so
179:32
everyone thank you so much
179:35
and um yeah whoa
179:38
thank you landrieu landrieu for this
179:41
very kind donation
179:42
wow uh
179:46
let me see thank you frodo for the super
179:48
sticker
179:50
thank you
179:54
look at that wow i really appreciate
179:56
that land room big time
180:03
um let’s see uh katie and all eddie
180:06
edit 77 is the number one instagram
180:09
account for the latest reports on the
180:10
ground he’s always on
180:11
okay i’ll show that stuff um
180:17
let’s see if i got any right now
180:20
oh man i want one more ah that’s too
180:23
much pressure anyway
180:25
i gotta pet it go i got an email from
180:27
dig i don’t even know why i did it says
180:28
pedeco so that’s what i’m gonna do
180:29
pedeco
180:31
all right guys thank you so much again
180:33
thank you so much uh especially to
180:35
everyone especially
180:36
uh landrieu landrieu um
180:40
okay
180:46
i mean i think hamas should stop firing
180:49
rockets because
180:50
they’re just not because there aren’t
180:52
justified but because
180:53
these are grown men letting children die
180:55
in gaza without any chance of advancing
180:56
the palestinian objectives
180:58
i mean you could easily argue it’s not
180:59
why strategically i think though that
181:01
like that shouldn’t be
181:04
the focus of our discussion and uh you
181:08
know like
181:11
uh what else uh
181:15
seeker mel thank you so much
181:31
um yeah i think that’s it right
181:35
it is true frankelstein said
181:39
uh if you don’t have them nobody cares
181:41
there are people there actually you know
181:43
who said that
181:45
for real is betzelem
181:48
remember uh hagai he wrote that piece
181:52
where um thank you he wrote that piece
181:55
about that in washington post which i
181:57
read with um
181:59
with norm on normazon and in fact i made
182:01
a clip out of it
182:03
um so yeah
182:08
um yeah thank you save sharik
182:12
um and thank you again seeker mel
182:16
and thank you official video youtube
182:20
yeah um all right
182:23
so yeah i think i’ll see you guys soon
182:26
again as i said i’m adding these extra
182:28
streams because what is this enable kd
182:31
via patreon as well
182:32
like and subscribe yeah enable me do
182:34
please any i want i need some enablers
182:37
um i’m just gonna i do appreciate that
182:42
um some really weird
182:45
uh analogies in there um
182:50
okay so i’ll see you guys later um
182:53
make sure you check on the stream so
182:55
that you make sure you check
182:56
uh you know
182:59
subscribe
183:05
okay yeah the tuesday isn’t going to
183:07
happen
183:09
um all right bye everyone

How to tell when criticism of Israel is actually anti-Semitism

South Carolina just passed a law deeming any criticism of Israel in public schools or universities to be anti-Semitic.

.. Israel attracts additional scrutiny because it is a top recipient of U.S. foreign aid and the only Western nation currently carrying out a military occupation of another people.

.. anti-Semitism on the right is often easier to spot

.. At rallies on college campuses, speakers regularly list “Zionists” in the same category as white supremacists and Nazis.

So how can you tell the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism? Here are five useful markers.

Seeing Jews as insidious influencers behind the scenes of world events

On the left and the right, anti-Semitism often manifests in a nefarious belief in a worldwide Jewish conspiracy that wields outsize power. On the right, it’s “globalists” and “elites” who manipulate events. On the left, it’s “Zionists.” The terms may differ, but the fundamental conspiracy theory is the same.

Using the word “Zionist” as code for “Jew” or “Israeli”

.. But refusing to call Israel or Israelis by their internationally accepted names denies the very existence of the state and its people’s identities. These coy linguistic tricks are as unacceptable as the right-wing penchant for denying the existence of Palestinians and Palestinian identity.

Denying Jewish history

.. Statements like these ignore the fact that, unlike most white people here and elsewhere, Jews have been subject to racially based discrimination — and that more than half of Israeli Jews are not Ashkenazi, meaning their families did not come from Europe.

.. Dismissing the humanity of Israelis

.. one young activist told me, “I can’t judge how other people carry out their liberation movements.”

.. Assuming that the Israeli government speaks for all Jews

.. Imagine assuming that all Americans support President Trump’s policies, or asking Americans to expressly disown their own country before engaging in any international human rights campaigns.

.. Jews who care about Israel — many of whom revile Netanyahu and his politics — should not be excluded from progressive spaces based on their answers to such questions.

Why the American left gave up on political violence

despite what Trump has claimed, repeatedly, in his public statements since the tragic events there, the willingness to employ organized violence to achieve political goals remains a signature quality of only one side. And it’s not the left.

.. Extremism on the left is real. It can be seen in attempts to stifle the free speech of conservative speakers on university campuses (as at Middlebury and Berkeley); in the belligerent attitudes toward corporations and capitalism expressed, for instance, by some fringes of the Occupy Wall Street crowd and anti-globalization protesters; and among anti-Zionist movements that peddle conspiracy theories (such as the contention that Jews control U.S. foreign policy) to delegitimize Israel.

.. organized and strategic violence and incitement embraced by right-wing extremists, whose leaders profess faith in the necessity of the fight. Nothing the left can do today even comes close to that — and hasn’t for decades.

.. Labor unions battled constantly with railroad barons, industrial tycoons and mining bosses during the Gilded Age. Even while outnumbered and outgunned, usually by private armies that enjoyed the backing of law enforcement and state militias, workers fought in bloody clashes that left dozens dead on battlefields such as Chicago’s Haymarket Square (1886) and West Virginia’s Blair Mountain (1921).

.. for many younger activists who came of age in the postwar era, violence remained a key strategy — even a way of life.

  • Inspired by the Black Panthers’ embrace of violence for self-defense, and
  • enraged by the escalating war in Vietnam,
  • antiwar protesters from New Left organizations such as Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) sought to “bring the war home” to end the fighting abroad.
  • This concept culminated in the rioting during the 1968 Democratic convention and on university campuses.
  • Radical offshoots including the Weather Underground and the Symbionese Liberation Army took things even further: The former bombed government buildings, and the latter committed homicide, robbery and, famously, kidnapping.

But since the 1960s, left-wing movements in the United States (and in the West writ large) have gradually turned away from violence. There are three main reasons for this.

  1. The first is practical: It backfired terribly.
    • The Vietnam War protesters initially believed that their country was beyond redemption, so a revolution was imperative. This The Vietnam War protesters initially believed that their country was beyond redemption, so a revolution was imperative. This alienated the general public, helped unify a deeply divided conservative movement and emboldened Richard Nixon’s “silent majority.” Violence proved counterproductive to ending the war; if anything, it helped prolong it. and emboldened Richard Nixon’s “silent majority.” Violence proved counterproductive to ending the war; if anything, it helped prolong it.
    • Mark Rudd, a leader of the Weather Underground, sounded an unequivocal mea culpa. “Much of what the Weathermen did had the opposite effect of what we intended,” he conceded. “. . . We isolated ourselves from our friends and allies as we helped split the larger antiwar movement around the issue of violence. In general, we played into the hands of the FBI. . . . We might as well have been on their payroll.”
  2. The left’s second reason for rejecting violence was even simpler: There were better ways to get things done. The civil rights and feminist movements showed that nonviolent protest could achieve tangible political goals.
    • it was not based only on ethical principles of Christian brotherly love but also on shrewd political calculations.
    • The lesson: There was no point in challenging the legitimacy of a government that enabled them to accomplish many, albeit not all, of their goals through the democratic process.
    • the modern left, which coalesced around George McGovern’s quixotic 1972 presidential run, effectively represented a gathering of fugitives.
      • African Americans,
      • Hispanics,
      • women,
      • gay men and lesbians,
      • Native Americans, and
      • workers:
    • These long-ostracized groups, which came to replace the New Deal coalition anchored by the white working class, were the very peoples against whom violence had been done for so long.
  3. Their painful histories made them instinctively averse to, and intolerant of, political violence. Those who had survived lynchings, beatings, bombings, sexual violence, forced removals and economic exploitation were least disposed to employ them in return.
    • Antifa is mostly anarchist in nature; its members are suspicious and dismissive of the left’s embrace of government institutions. More important, it is loosely banded, disorganized and low scale. Brawling on campuses, throwing rocks or vandalizing property is reprehensible and illegal. But it is incomparable to the scope and breadth of organized violence demonstrated by the extreme right.

The left has successfully integrated into most political, economic and cultural facets of the country, but members of the extreme right say they have been

  • devastated by the economic effects of globalization,
  • disempowered by multiculturalism and
  • disenfranchised by the election of the nation’s first African American president.

.. Organized militias that are well armed, well trained and well networked have seen a particular spike since the beginning of the Obama presidency.

.. “Sovereign citizens” are armed to the teeth and willing to challenge officials, as they did in last year’s armed standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon. Many such militiamen have killed or injured local police.

.. They pose a greater threat than the Islamic State or al-Qaeda, according to a 2016 U.S. government report: “Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001,

  • far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while
  • radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent).”

A Very British Radical

Now, though, in the imminent British election called by an overconfident Theresa May, a different sort of Trumpian figure is closer to victory than anyone expected. This is Jeremy Corbyn, the radical backbencher turned Labour leader, whose campaign was supposed to be a joke but now finds itself, like Trump’s before it, just a “normal-sized polling error” away from a truly shocking upset.

.. the Corbyn-era Labour Party’s tendency to find itself explaining why its members, activists and sometimes politicians are merely anti-Zionist and not actually anti-Semitic, even as their critiques of Israel or global finance blur into old-fashioned anti-Semitic cliché. Especially since the intersection of left-wing anti-Zionism and Islamist Jew-baiting is probably a more substantial threat to Jewish security in Western Europe than what remains of right-wing anti-Semitism.

.. Corbyn’s inner circle has a similar minimizing tendency where the crimes of Stalinism are concerned, plus the equally inevitable far-left affinity for Latin American authoritarianism. If the specter of long-ago Vichy lurked behind Le Penism, the specter of present-day Venezuela lurks not that far in the background of Corbynism.

.. Corbyn’s fellow-traveling with the Irish Republican Army at the height of its bombing campaigns, or his habit (for which he recently offered regrets) of offering comradeship to Hezbollah and Hamas.

.. All’s fair in love and the last week of a campaign, but still it’s a little audacious, since Corbyn clearly has an old revolutionary’s soft spot for a certain kind of terrorist.

.. a Prime Minister Corbyn would probably make Brexit somewhat softer

.. this amounts to saying that it’s O.K. to elect an extremist with anti-Semitic and authoritarian and even terrorist connections if he or she just takes the official European Union line on immigration and monetary policy.

.. The entire populist phenomenon, left and right, is happening because our establishment is in need of serious unsettlement, and that can’t happen unless movements and ideas with extreme or disreputable associations are allowed into the conversation.

.. May’s attempt to reimagine conservative politics along more populist, “Red Tory” lines strikes me as a healthier response to the moment than Corbyn’s unreconstructed socialism.

A Case for Jeremy Corbyn

Of course Trump tried to make cheap political capital from the blood on London’s streets. He quoted London’s mayor, Sadiq Khan, out of context in a flurry of tweets aimed at buttressing the case for his bigotry. The president of the United States just felt like insulting a prominent Muslim.

.. all that British pomp for His Neediness.

.. competing for the favor and lucre of despots. To heck with the European Union, there’s always Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Xi Jinping. So begins the post-American century.

.. His slogan — “For the Many not the Few” — was no less effective for having been borrowed from Tony Blair.

.. the urban under-30s, is remarkable. To them he is a near Messianic figure, the righter of capitalist wrongs; the proud socialist who will nationalize the railroads, make universities free again and inject billions into the National Health Service (while somehow balancing the budget)

.. I dislike Corbyn’s anti-Americanism, his long flirtation with Hamas, his coterie’s clueless leftover Marxism and anti-Zionism, his NATO bashing, his unworkable tax-and-spend promises. He’s of that awful Cold War left that actually believed Soviet Moscow was probably not as bad as Washington.

.. After the terrorist attacks, he said “difficult conversations” were needed with Saudi Arabia: Hallelujah! He would tackle rising inequality. He would seek a soft departure from the European Union keeping Britain as close to Europe as possible. His victory — still improbable — would constitute punishment of the Tories for the disaster of Brexit. Seldom would a political comeuppance be so merited.