openpolitics.com

think that that’s in part because look
04:41
I’d be open to somebody making the
04:44
argument that Donald Trump is singularly
04:46
unsuited for this moment the problem is
04:49
is that most of the people that are
04:52
making that case including David Frum
04:54
who you just quoted or including Pete
04:55
Waner have been making the case that
04:57
Donald Trump is singularly unsuited for
04:59
office from before the time he was even
05:01
elected so it becomes kind of difficult
05:04
to separate out the uniqueness of their
05:06
argument in this case versus their
05:08
general view that the man should never
05:10
have been elected at all that just I
05:13
mean and that’s that’s I think and I’ve
05:16
made this case many times that for the
05:18
kind of Trump haters out there after a
05:20
while your repetition begins to weaken
05:23
your argument now holmen’s point I think
05:26
is very good are we making mistakes on a
05:29
daily daily occurrence in the middle of
05:31
this oh you bet you we are and one day
05:33
there’s gonna be a post-mortem that is
05:36
gonna be really ugly but I would argue
05:37
that that post mortem is going to be one
05:40
that looks at a lot of mistakes that
05:42
were made by a lot of administrations on
05:44
the road to coronavirus you know whether
05:47
it was prior administrations it didn’t
05:49
adequately restock her stockpiles
05:51
whether it’s health agencies that over
05:54
30 years have claimed to be preparing
05:56
for pandemics and yet seem to have no
05:57
plan when this came out sure this is
06:00
gonna require complete retooling of the
06:03
way we look at these things but to say
06:05
that it’s all incumbent upon one person
06:07
is just ridiculous back to the
06:09
coronavirus back to the substance of
06:10
what we’re dealing with right now is one
06:12
more frankly one more Trump question
06:16
we’ve got I quoted David Frum and Pete
06:20
Waner of course as you know I could have
06:21
quoted any number of dozens and dozens
06:23
of people but David Frum and Pete Waner
06:26
both worked in the administration of
06:28
George W Bush three and a half years ago
06:31
before Donald Trump three or four years
06:33
ago before he declared his candidacy for
06:35
president you and I would have thought
06:37
of David Fromm and Pete Waner as broad
06:40
speaking to put a crudely
06:43
on our side limited government free
06:47
markets Republican candidates overall
06:50
tend to be better for that than
06:51
Democratic candidates and now we have it
06:55
reminds me again and again of the OJ
06:59
Simpson trial where we had the jury and
07:02
those of us watching on television
07:04
looking at exactly the same set of facts
07:07
and coming to utterly opposed
07:11
conclusions what accounts for this I
07:14
mean this but this has been happening
07:17
again since a minute he wrote a whole
07:19
book I wrote a whole hook on it and you
07:21
know I make these examples it is
07:23
astonishing to me and this is my
07:25
favorite one that you continue to hear
07:27
people say today that Donald Trump is
07:30
some sort of autocrat or tyrant or a
07:32
dictator in the making because I’m sorry
07:35
when you stop back and you look at what
07:36
his administration has actually done on
07:39
a day-to-day basis and we forget the
07:41
president’s press moments forget the
07:44
things he puts on Twitter look at what’s
07:46
happened at the cabinet level at the
07:47
agency level one of the biggest
07:49
deregulations in the history of the
07:52
country if not the biggest a giant tax
07:54
cut okay you can’t become an autocrat by
07:58
cutting the size of your government by a
08:00
third okay I mean everything that they
08:02
have done is designed to take power away
08:05
from the federal government to devolve
08:07
it out to the states to make things more
08:10
free in the country but that’s an
08:13
example of what you’re saying and so now
08:14
we’re getting it here in the context of
08:16
the virus which is you know Donald Trump
08:19
is suitably you know uniquely inept or
08:22
uniquely unqualified for this moment I
08:25
mean I guess a question I would have for
08:27
a lot of these people is what exactly
08:29
would they be doing differently at this
08:31
moment and I think that guess it’s a big
08:34
questions about shutdown no shutdown but
08:36
again is that on Donald Trump or on this
08:39
kind of mass of so-called experts and
08:41
health community which is all over the
08:43
map itself on what the way is supposed
08:45
to be forward all right
08:47
the big takeaway here’s Kim Strauss all
08:51
on March 19th
08:52
this is just great because I get
08:54
I get to I get to ask you what you meant
08:56
about this or that of course I read your
08:58
column all the time now I get to talk to
08:59
you about it
09:00
that’s bad though Pierre it means I
09:02
wasn’t clear enough the first time no I
09:04
just asked you to elaborate here I’m
09:08
quoting you here’s the lesson of the
09:10
virus so far relying solely on
09:12
government bureaucracy is insane to the
09:17
extent America is weathering this moment
09:19
it is in norton enormous part thanks to
09:21
the strength and Genuity and flexibility
09:24
of our thriving competitive capitalist
09:28
players close quote
09:30
explain that well look to me whatever
09:34
you criticism you want a level of the
09:36
Trump administration the single most
09:38
important thing they did at the very
09:39
beginning was a philosophical decision
09:42
which is that they were not going to
09:43
attempt to deal with this on their own
09:45
they were going to embrace the private
09:47
sector and move forward in a
09:48
public-private partnership in dealing
09:51
with this brilliant because that is
09:53
exactly the way forward in this country
09:56
and it always has been federal
09:57
government when do we ever expect the
09:59
federal government to turn on a dime and
10:01
handle a major project I mean you cannot
10:04
reconcile that idea in your head with
10:06
for instance the DMB okay which is what
10:10
most of us think of in terms of
10:11
government so you turn to act as you can
10:13
and what’s unique about this partnership
10:15
is that you have players out there
10:17
wanting to do stuff and then the
10:18
government’s role is to get out of their
10:20
way right and so it was a CDC that
10:23
completely messed up that original
10:25
testing regimen it was we go into that a
10:28
little bit because that that gets laid
10:31
at Trump’s that Trump gets blamed for
10:34
that again and again and again that’s
10:35
still going on but just explain what
10:36
actually happened with yeah so what
10:40
happened is the CDC the the the World
10:42
Health Organization had its own way of
10:45
going forward with testing but lots of
10:47
different countries over the time have
10:49
always had different regimens testing
10:52
regimens the CDC has traditionally and
10:54
in this case it did it again decided it
10:56
wanted to come up with its own testing
10:58
regimen because it wanted to exert some
11:00
quality control over that the problem
11:02
was is that when all the scientists went
11:05
and did it
11:05
they must
11:06
it didn’t work and it delayed us for a
11:09
couple of weeks they then turned to the
11:11
private sector which got you know
11:13
luckily we had some incredible actors
11:16
out there who’ve been working on this
11:17
already themselves and they were able to
11:19
stand up an effective testing regimen in
11:21
a little less than a week
11:22
thank you private sector but you see
11:24
that replicated whether it’s on the
11:26
ventilator front whether it’s on
11:27
personal protection equipment whether
11:29
it’s on the vaccines that are getting
11:31
pushed forward I mean we have an amazing
11:34
resource the United States and just one
11:36
last thing on this it is astonishing to
11:38
me even as we are watching this and also
11:41
all of these corporations paying
11:43
employees even though they’ve got no
11:45
money coming in you know giving them
11:47
leave like we hear these stories of
11:49
small businesses bending over backwards
11:51
to make sure they’re not laying people
11:52
off at the same time we have Bernie
11:55
Sanders giving a farewell or drop out of
11:57
the race speech this week in which he
12:00
was unrelentingly horrid to the
12:02
corporate community and suggested
12:03
everything wrong in the United States is
12:05
laid at its feet amazing
12:09
Kim so big takeaway private sector is
12:13
saving us amazing let’s discuss a couple
12:15
of threats to the private sector that
12:20
the current crisis may be posing and one
12:23
is in one way or another if it happens
12:26
it’ll happen in a subtle way it’ll
12:27
happen press conference by press
12:29
conference probably a shift from
12:33
decision-making by the democratically
12:35
elected office holders to the unelected
12:39
public health officials and so there
12:43
have been moments when people have said
12:46
in conversations I’ve overheard the
12:50
Acting President of the United States is
12:52
doctor pouchy Donald Trump’s instincts
12:55
were clearly against shutting down the
12:57
economy but the experts talked him into
13:00
it
13:00
well actually by the way let’s start
13:02
with that with the threshold question
13:05
are you satisfied that the public health
13:08
experts did a serious and rigorous job
13:11
of weighing the costs of shutting down
13:14
the economy and throwing we now know
13:17
today’s figure is six point six million
13:19
Americans out of work and all that all
13:24
the pathologies that go with
13:26
unemployment that they did a serious and
13:28
adequate job of weighing those costs
13:30
against the benefits of the lives they
13:32
believed we could save by shutting down
13:36
the economy did they do that right of
13:38
course they didn’t but you know what in
13:40
fairness it’s not their job to do that
13:43
right I mean look public health
13:44
officials exist to worry about public
13:46
health and we have them and they’re
13:48
meant to be one part of a broader
13:51
government in which the president is
13:53
soliciting and getting the views of a
13:55
whole range of different experts and
13:57
that clearly didn’t happen here and you
13:59
know I blame a little bit the media I
14:01
blame Democrats who immediately came out
14:04
of the box with his mantra you need to
14:06
listen to the scientists you need to
14:08
listen to the scientists okay we do need
14:10
to listen to the scientists but we also
14:11
need to listen to the economists who are
14:13
talking about what the balance of all of
14:15
this will be in and and what they
14:17
similar devastation by the way to health
14:20
will be of people who are homeless who
14:23
can’t feed their kids who are having
14:25
mental health issues because of all of
14:27
this or the people right now I would
14:29
give this all the people who aren’t
14:30
going in and getting mammograms or
14:32
colonoscopies and we were potentially
14:34
missing other cancers a few that are
14:37
being delayed right none of this is
14:39
necessarily good overall for health so
14:41
yes we’re making a dent on one type of
14:43
fatality out there but at what cost
14:46
every other way that’s my one concern I
14:48
think the other concern but I really
14:49
have about this is when let’s say you
14:52
take the advice listen to the experts
14:54
why these particular experts you know
14:57
and I’m not again in any way diminishing
15:00
doctor foul here dr. Burks or or any of
15:02
the people that are working this
15:03
accomplished people full of goodwill
15:05
will stipulate that yeah but they it
15:08
also happens for you they just happen to
15:09
be there at this time it doesn’t
15:11
necessarily mean they are the most
15:13
qualified people or there aren’t other
15:15
experts out there that are similarly
15:17
like have a lot to supply here and maybe
15:21
a different view and so I think the
15:23
president’s obligation really needs to
15:25
be just step back and listen to everyone
15:29
and then make the decisions
15:31
so in questions of national security and
15:35
I’m thinking this through a fumble
15:39
because I’m the the thought is occurring
15:40
to me if as I speak in questions of
15:43
national security it’s the job of the
15:45
National Security Council to hold
15:46
debates right and and if necessary to
15:50
get the Secretary of Defense and the
15:52
Secretary of State in the Situation Room
15:55
to thrash it out in front of the
15:57
president no such debates have been held
15:59
among public health officials in the
16:01
current crisis that’s my fear right I
16:04
mean you know we have guys right out
16:07
there and you’re John Ian’s etus I think
16:10
under his name the right way you know an
16:13
amazing sort of look at the numbers sort
16:15
of person and he’s got a very different
16:17
view of all of this I haven’t really
16:20
seen anything either by the way that
16:21
suggests that that he isn’t onto
16:24
something or that his view isn’t as
16:26
valid as those that are being voiced in
16:27
the White House so in my perfect world
16:30
in the coming weeks we begin to have
16:33
that debate within the White House the
16:35
president would be soliciting the views
16:37
of experts across the country and not
16:39
just from the infectious disease area
16:42
but from a wide range of health and
16:45
public health disciplines because they
16:48
would all have very different here’s
16:50
another threat to the private sector to
16:53
the kind of vigorous private action that
16:56
you champion from the current crisis now
17:00
quoting William Galston in the Wall
17:01
Street Journal I do is read The Wall
17:02
Street Journal antic so here’s Galston
17:07
writing a couple of days ago quote no
17:10
Senate Republican not one voted against
17:14
the 2.2 trillion trillion dollar rescue
17:17
bill an unprecedented expansion of
17:20
government’s cost and reach close quote
17:23
and I recall the brief press conference
17:27
that Majority Leader McConnell gave
17:30
after they voted to move that 2.2
17:32
trillion package to the President’s desk
17:35
and Majority Leader McConnell was
17:37
crowing that the Senate had gone from
17:40
the bitterness of impeachment to the
17:43
common cause of this rescuing the
17:47
economy and of course you can get every
17:50
senator to vote for giving away billions
17:52
of other people’s money this feels too
17:55
good to those guys they’re going to want
17:57
to do it again is that not a danger it’s
17:59
a huge danger I mean as I pointed out in
18:01
the in the aftermath of that vote you
18:05
had all of these senators running around
18:06
saying oh look a hundred billion dollars
18:08
for hospitals and look we’re sending
18:10
this much money to individuals at home
18:13
and breaking out all of these little
18:15
categories what nobody was pointing out
18:17
was a single biggest category in that
18:19
bill six hundred billion if I recall
18:21
from your column more than six hundred
18:23
billion dollars went to government
18:24
itself and by the way that’s not even
18:26
counting the money that also went to
18:27
state governments as well too that’s
18:30
just the federal government’s payday so
18:33
you know they walked away with the
18:35
biggest slice of this pie and you know
18:37
that was partly Democrats demanding
18:40
saying you know we knew where the money
18:43
needed to go here look anybody did where
18:45
did we need we were having a beginning
18:47
of a liquidity crisis we needed money to
18:49
get to corporations and to small
18:51
businesses to thereby encourage them to
18:54
keep their employees on the payroll and
18:56
the spare us from having more people go
18:58
to government for help that’s a simple
19:01
simple concept but Democrats the price
19:03
of this was you know you got to give us
19:07
money for the food stamps turbo-charged
19:10
unemployment insurance
19:11
you should see the money that just flew
19:13
to every department in government and it
19:17
was very funny we’re not NASA God not
19:18
now all under this sort of vague term
19:21
like for the purpose of preparing and
19:23
dealing with coronavirus NASA gets sixty
19:26
million dollars you’re like sixty
19:27
million dollars but you’re like why for
19:30
what cause
19:31
so in the end Democrats demanded it but
19:34
Republicans willingly rolled over for it
19:37
because they like big government too
19:39
many of them and nobody wanted to seem
19:41
to be the spoil sport at this spending
19:43
sorry alright um the politics of it all
19:47
this is it’s may seem crass to say so in
19:51
the middle of what still feels like a
19:52
crisis but it is the fact that we have
19:55
an election in seven months yes
19:58
years William Galston again president
20:00
Trump had planned to organize his
20:02
campaign around two themes a strong
20:05
economy and a critique of the Democratic
20:08
Party for allegedly embracing socialism
20:10
that gives away Galston allegedly anyway
20:13
for allegedly creating socialism in
20:15
today’s radically transformed
20:18
circumstances neither of those themes is
20:20
likely to work the economy’s in a
20:23
recession and Republicans themselves
20:25
just voted for this gigantic budget
20:30
busting bill where did the politics of
20:33
this shape out yeah well if you look at
20:36
those two themes I think they’re gonna
20:38
obviously have to be modulated although
20:41
I think that there is there are
20:44
corollaries to them that you are likely
20:46
to see the Trump administration adopt
20:48
look with any luck we are going to come
20:50
out of the other side of this at some
20:52
point and the economy is going to start
20:54
back up again everyone’s having a debate
20:56
are we going to have a u-shaped curve on
20:59
the way back up a v-shaped curve the
21:01
bigger point is is that we’re going to
21:02
have a chance to rebuild I think what
21:04
you’re going to see the Trump
21:06
administration start to do is shift to
21:08
arguing that you need a sort of
21:11
conservative Trump like person in office
21:14
to maintain that that we’re at a risky
21:18
time period Democrats have just
21:20
demonstrated their own view of
21:21
governance which is to just throw more
21:23
money at it and
21:24
bash on the private sector we especially
21:27
right now cannot afford to have that
21:29
happen we will not come out of this for
21:31
a long time if they are elected to the
21:33
presidency in November that’s going to
21:35
be one of their arguments compelling
21:38
well I think it’s gonna partly depend on
21:41
look I mean it’s just simply the case
21:43
that the way people feel about their
21:46
pocketbooks plays a great deal into an
21:48
election so how bad is this how much is
21:51
the response that we put out they’re
21:53
gonna stem the losses how quick is the
21:55
recovery we just don’t have the answers
21:57
to that yet hmm
21:59
the journalists the question of
22:02
journalism I’ll come back to the
22:07
journalists and coronavirus in a moment
22:09
but first here’s something that nobody
22:11
it just it just disappeared the story
22:14
disappeared and you know where I’m going
22:17
with a subsequent to the investigation
22:18
of the FBI’s requests to the FISA Court
22:21
connected to the Russia matter the
22:25
Department of Justice’s Inspector
22:27
General inspected more than two dozen
22:30
other FBI wiretap applications the I G’s
22:34
office went in and essentially at random
22:37
pulled together 29 that had nothing to
22:39
do with a Russia matter just to see how
22:42
the FBI was submitting these things and
22:45
the IG s conclusion there were quote
22:48
apparent errors or inadequately
22:50
supported facts
22:51
close quote in every single one and as
22:57
they say the IG the Inspector General of
22:59
the Department of Justice issued that
23:01
report in late March as you and I speak
23:02
this is 1012 days ago it got this
23:07
biggest story in a few newspapers and
23:09
it’s gone what do you make of that well
23:13
I would like to point out we at the
23:14
editorial page The Wall Street Journal
23:16
did a big editorial on it because always
23:19
in all ways except the op-ed page go
23:22
ahead no but because this is a huge deal
23:25
right a hundred percent failure rate
23:29
okay and it’s important because it puts
23:31
the lie to guys like Comey hoops for the
23:34
past years have said oh you know what
23:37
you can’t bash on the FBI it’s nothing
23:40
but a bunch of people we are straight up
23:41
you know these applications are the most
23:43
serious things we do all the time you
23:46
know when the results in December came
23:48
out of the I geez Russia report he said
23:51
well I guess we were a little sloppy
23:52
well now we find out that apparently the
23:56
FBI is general attitude is that they
23:58
don’t need to follow any of the rules
23:59
and that we’ve got nobody watching the
24:02
shop you know and if the IG randomly
24:05
chose 29 applications and every one of
24:08
them was violating what are known as the
24:10
woods files procedures which are meant
24:12
to be the central mechanism by which you
24:15
keep the FBI on the straight and narrow
24:17
and make sure these applications are
24:19
what are known what that’s supposed to
24:21
be scrupulously accurate they don’t care
24:24
and then the other aspect of that idea
24:26
reporters they also found out that the
24:28
internal mechanisms that the FBI and
24:30
Department of Justice are spent supposed
24:32
to maintain to guarantee this are a joke
24:35
nobody looks at the results of the
24:37
reports that they do nobody goes back to
24:40
the individuals who filed the
24:42
applications and said hey you made
24:44
errors what’s up with this there’s no
24:46
consequences for anybody no
24:47
accountability and and the media doesn’t
24:50
want to talk about this because it
24:51
reminds them of the Russia story which
24:54
was a humiliating experience for both
24:56
them and the Democratic Party do they
24:58
feel humiliated well they should they
25:02
should feel humiliated because they got
25:04
it a hundred percent wrong they put the
25:06
country through torture for three years
25:08
on the basis of their own hatred of a
25:10
candidate not on the basis of any facts
25:12
so a quick little summary the media got
25:17
the Russia matter entirely wrong all
25:20
these months later not a shred of
25:23
evidence has turned up that now justice
25:26
Cavanaugh was justly accused by
25:29
Christine Blasi Ford not a shred of
25:31
evidence of which I’m aware that that
25:33
was anything other than a fabrication
25:35
from beginning to end
25:37
and what else and now we have the IG
25:40
report making unambiguous that the FBI
25:43
has been sloppy in one of its most
25:46
solemn duties
25:49
correct correct and the press has no
25:52
interest in any of that well I think
25:54
it’s really wise though that you bring
25:56
it up because it reminds us Peter I mean
25:59
look the press does this all the time we
26:01
are in the middle of the corona virus
26:03
you know everything all day long 24
26:05
hours seven days a week but it that’s
26:09
going to fade and people are going to
26:11
remember that there are other issues
26:13
that do matter in in the running of a
26:16
country and in elections and remember we
26:19
still have the Durham report to come out
26:21
at some point – that has not disappeared
26:24
and and I keep reminding people as well
26:27
that my belief my understanding is that
26:29
he is very conscious of not wanting to
26:32
go too far into an active election
26:35
period with his results he wants to get
26:37
that out so I’d wager that’s still gonna
26:39
come out sooner rather than later this
26:42
spring summer at the latest I think so I
26:44
would I would I would imagine he’d like
26:46
to have it done before the conventions
26:48
because that’s is often viewed as an
26:50
official starting gun for an election so
26:52
there’s a huge story coming of cacao on
26:56
the corona virus itself journalism even
26:58
on the corona virus I was thinking this
27:00
over here can I just give you a couple
27:03
of questions just questions off the top
27:05
of my head so dr. Fowler has been saying
27:10
that this thing is more lethal than the
27:12
flu and it turns out as best I
27:16
understand and I’ve talked to some
27:17
physician friends here at Stanford he
27:20
cannot know that he cannot know that the
27:24
lethality rate is a ratio it’s the
27:26
number of people who died if I did buy
27:28
something and you can’t know that it’s
27:31
more lethal than the flu until you have
27:33
much more widespread testing of people
27:36
who are infected so there he is saying
27:39
something that he can’t know in front of
27:42
a room full of reporters and no
27:44
reporters respectful I mean I’ve lived I
27:46
have to confess I have other things to
27:48
do I haven’t listened to every minute of
27:50
those White House briefings but you know
27:52
I dip in from time to time as you do and
27:55
the tenor is aggressive toward the
27:58
president aggressive toward pence and
28:00
fawning toward dr.
28:02
Algie and the public health
28:05
professionals even when there’s an
28:07
effete question seems to me obvious
28:08
respectful pertinent and unasked or this
28:12
question of there’s a new book out by a
28:14
couple of Princeton economists you’re a
28:17
Princeton woman the deccan
28:19
husband-and-wife team and they’ve done a
28:22
study I haven’t read the book but I read
28:24
the review in The New Yorker
28:25
and they asked what is the cause of
28:28
these deaths of despair and it’s not
28:31
related to age and it’s not related to
28:33
race and it’s not related to region it’s
28:36
a result of unemployment where people
28:39
are unemployed they abuse alcohol they
28:43
abuse drugs you get domestic violence
28:45
and you get suicide
28:47
well if serious economists such as those
28:51
that Princeton are studying this matter
28:54
and running studies and quantifying it
28:56
why aren’t we getting some modelling
28:58
about the the likely health effects of
29:02
throwing 7 million Americans out of work
29:05
that at least parallels the modeling
29:08
we’re getting every hour it seems on the
29:11
coronavirus now that’s again that
29:14
strikes me as pertinent respectful
29:16
obvious and unasked what is going on
29:20
with American journalism ya know every
29:25
day I watch those and it’s so
29:26
frustrating to me because I wish I were
29:28
there to get to raise my questions to
29:31
ask of these people here’s another one
29:33
that I think falls into that same
29:34
category but and you have probably
29:37
noticed this as well but everyone seems
29:40
to have a different term up there and
29:42
and I mean above among the scientists
29:46
about what it is exactly the endgame is
29:48
here what are we trying to accomplish
29:50
you know is it to slow the spread
29:52
because that’s very different from
29:55
stopping the spread ok are we attempting
29:58
to eliminate this all together and then
30:01
trace any new little case of it and go
30:04
out and extinguish that because if
30:07
that’s the case we’re gonna be locked
30:09
down for a very very long time and we
30:11
won’t have an economy at the end of it
30:12
or if we’re gonna slow the spread slow
30:15
the curve lower the curve flatten
30:17
whatever you want to call it let’s be
30:20
honest that if you were taking that
30:21
approach a lot more people are still
30:23
gonna get this just over a longer period
30:26
of time in which case why aren’t we
30:29
opening up some of these lockers I mean
30:31
I just think that there are some really
30:33
fundamental questions that the
30:35
scientific crew up there does not get
30:37
asked so so ok I guess there’s no
30:40
surprise that Peter Robinson and chemist
30:42
Rasul are in violent agreement but but
30:47
there is the larger question is these
30:50
guys have shut down the American he
30:52
can’t I don’t know what stories you’re
30:54
hearing in Alaska
30:55
but here I live in an older house we had
30:58
some trouble with the kitchen and I had
30:59
a plumber in the other day and it turns
31:00
out that kitchen sinks are considered
31:03
essential but he had three guys show up
31:06
for work the same day it was a gas line
31:09
that needed to be repaired and some
31:12
bureaucrat in City Hall had decided to
31:14
yank the permit because after all that
31:16
was non-essential so three guys went
31:19
home that day without getting paid this
31:21
is happening over and over and over
31:24
again a vast scale they have done
31:27
something grave and shutting down the
31:29
economy and they still can’t explain to
31:32
us quite what they think they’re doing
31:34
it for and I don’t understand why
31:36
journalists aren’t on their feet asking
31:39
ouchy to clear this up what what is what
31:42
what is the failure of American
31:44
journalism well would it doesn’t seem as
31:47
though bill Safire or Scotty Reston of
31:50
the old days in the New York Times would
31:52
have pushed these guys for answers well
31:55
they would have asked the tough
31:56
questions but they would have asked the
31:57
tough questions of those who are
31:59
actually driving this show which is what
32:01
you’re saying about the kind of public
32:04
health officials who are standing up
32:06
there on the stage look I mean this is
32:08
one of the jokes of journalism these
32:09
days is that they pretend to be tough by
32:14
being mean to Donald Trump as if there
32:17
is any effort involved in that
32:19
whatsoever
32:21
and and is doing so they kind of hide
32:25
beneath this this lack of willingness or
32:29
lack of bravery to ask some really hard
32:31
questions also because they don’t want
32:34
anything the other promise they don’t
32:36
want anything to impede any narrative
32:39
that looks as though it’s bad for Donald
32:41
Trump or that allows them to beat on
32:44
Donald Trump so that’s what happened
32:46
with the Russia thing right I mean look
32:49
it wouldn’t have been very hard to
32:50
unravel or even to just poke holes in
32:53
the ludicrousness of the ideas that they
32:55
were promoting right but it was so much
32:57
more important to them that it be true
33:00
in some way that they were willing to
33:02
spend two and a half years making things
33:04
up and that’s what’s weird
33:06
at today too and unfortunately when you
33:09
don’t have a functioning press when you
33:10
don’t have a press it does its job it is
33:12
bad for the country and so you know
33:14
people love to pile on the press I feel
33:16
find it more of a tragedy than I do
33:18
anything else
33:19
it’s because it hurts all of us in the
33:21
end hmm a few last questions Kim you’re
33:26
not only working at home but you’ve got
33:28
three kids to keep an eye on at home so
33:30
I won’t thank you for your time how does
33:33
this end we’ve even in New York which as
33:37
it seems to be the hardest hit we the
33:40
the the peak either has or has already
33:43
taken place or appears to be taking
33:45
place quite soon and a matter of days
33:47
not weeks who gets to go back to work
33:51
and when and who’s going to decide all
33:53
this that actually strikes me as a
33:55
pretty complicated sequencing problem
33:58
who gets to go first how do we sort this
34:02
out right well also who do we convince
34:05
to go first I think that that’s an even
34:07
bigger problem and it’s why you know in
34:10
some ways they’re crazy mr. president I
34:12
volunteer right now well but what I mean
34:16
is from look we live in a federalist
34:18
system and you know what everyone keeps
34:21
asking that the president when he’s
34:23
going to open the economy it’s not up to
34:25
Donald Trump to open the economy okay
34:27
every one of these governors and mayor’s
34:30
have made their own decisions and will
34:31
continue to make their own decisions
34:33
that being said I do think the federal
34:35
government is going to play a crucial
34:36
role in this regard it’s gonna have to
34:39
push people by putting out very clear
34:42
guidance about what it suggests being
34:44
done because it’s gonna take a little
34:46
bit of a prod to get some of these
34:49
governors to agree to move you know
34:52
there’s look we’re talking about
34:53
politics in the end here
34:54
okay I’m not in any way suggesting these
34:57
officials don’t care about the people in
34:59
their state and their economies but
35:01
right now it’s safer to be in lockdown
35:04
than not okay so from a political
35:08
perspective right if you’re a governor
35:10
of a state do you really want to be the
35:12
first one that says okay hey y’all go
35:13
back to work and good luck and hope that
35:15
works
35:16
so you know especially when you have a
35:20
federal government that again has not
35:22
been clear to people about what the
35:25
endgame is here you know if we’re in a
35:28
situation where we go back and it is
35:30
expected that this is still gonna run
35:32
through society people are still gonna
35:34
be going to the hospital we’re still
35:36
gonna have outbreaks they need to start
35:38
telling everybody that now and let
35:40
people get their heads around it you
35:42
know if the if we’re gonna be in la-la
35:44
land and pretend that the real goal here
35:46
is to stamp this out people aren’t gonna
35:49
want to go back to work right right
35:52
right
35:53
the president tweeted I guess it was
35:55
earlier this week that he expects the
35:58
economy to rebound very quickly maybe
36:01
even bounce back to a higher growth rate
36:03
than we were enjoying earlier we were
36:04
led a little over 2% when the crisis hit
36:08
we’ve been at 3% a year before that I
36:11
guess had six months before that I spoke
36:13
last week though – Kevin wash former
36:16
former member of the Fed – former Fed
36:18
governor and Kevin said wrong wrong
36:22
wrong
36:22
I think it’ll take longer than most
36:24
believe again I don’t think the economy
36:28
can be turned on as quickly as it was
36:31
turned off I think that’s in general a
36:34
great benefit of the American capitalist
36:37
system people are thinking of this
36:39
economy like a light switch we can turn
36:41
it off and then we can switch it back on
36:43
it’s a living organism it has been very
36:47
very badly wounded right and it will
36:50
take time to heal
36:52
so I said Kevin what do you mean weeks
36:54
months and Kevin said quarters what do
36:58
you think no I think that there’s that’s
37:00
right I mean just like remember – well
37:03
we talked about people going back to
37:05
work reopening the economy you’re
37:09
talking about a million different
37:10
sectors of economy some of which will be
37:13
able to get back to work
37:14
maybe relatively quickly maybe in some
37:16
areas of manufacturing for instance
37:19
there are gonna nonetheless be entire
37:22
sectors of the economy and by the way
37:23
not little ones either big ones Airlines
37:27
you know
37:29
you can’t expect to have a healthy
37:31
airline that depends on half of its
37:34
income or more or from overseas travel
37:37
which no one’s going to be allowing
37:39
anytime soon okay
37:41
and then you you you reflect that from
37:44
sector sector the hotel industry the
37:46
cruise industry you know B and B’s you
37:50
know I just saw something the other day
37:52
about some of the Airbnb
37:54
you know and different kind of these
37:56
groups that allow you to book in other
38:00
people’s homes who’s gonna be using
38:01
those so this is gonna be a slow rolling
38:07
reopening and it you know it could be
38:09
quite some time before where anything
38:11
anywhere near back to normal and the
38:14
politics of that are that’s why I’m
38:18
saying we have seven months seven months
38:21
I spoke not I spoke earlier this morning
38:23
to Senator Portman Rob Portman of Ohio
38:26
Democrats likely who knows he said who
38:29
knows but Democrats likely to keep the
38:31
house because Republicans face so many
38:34
more difficult seats in the Senate than
38:36
do Democrats the Democrats need to flip
38:40
four seats in the Senate and recapture
38:43
the White House and the day after
38:45
election day we will wake up in a
38:47
different country seven months from now
38:51
can you get that economy revving again
38:53
ken yeah I think it’s it’s almost
38:56
impossible just at this very moment to
38:58
look forward and know how any of this is
39:01
gonna play out politically it’s it’s
39:03
very very difficult you know look but I
39:05
will add one other factor in here that I
39:08
think is notable because you mentioned
39:10
it earlier about what the White House’s
39:12
original plan was going to be to talk
39:15
about the economy and talk about
39:16
socialists well I would point out that
39:18
while Bernie Sanders did give a kind of
39:22
concession speech this week and kind of
39:24
dropped out he didn’t really that was
39:27
sort of fake news he says he’s going to
39:29
remain on the ballot on all continuing
39:31
primary states and continue to collect
39:34
as many delegates as he can and the
39:36
purpose of this because we already have
39:38
newspapers reporting it is that he is in
39:40
negotiations
39:41
creations with the Biden’s camp about
39:43
what aspects of his agenda Biden has to
39:46
adopt before Bernie will allow his
39:48
people to support by this isn’t over at
39:51
all
39:51
this isn’t over and he says he’ll go to
39:53
the convention so this is all about
39:55
extracting pounds of policy flesh from
39:58
Joe Biden and they’ve already put out
40:00
their list of demands
40:01
he needs to support Medicare for all he
40:03
needs to support the green New Deal
40:05
he needs to support a 50% reduction in
40:08
prison populations
40:09
he needs to support free college tuition
40:12
a complete forgiveness of all student
40:15
loan debt and it’s well it’s unlikely to
40:18
see Biden doing all about he’s gonna end
40:21
up doing some of it and that is very
40:24
dangerous for Joe Biden if you’re trying
40:26
to get independents disaffected Trump
40:28
voters suburban housewives you know this
40:31
is a point at which he’s supposed to be
40:33
pivoting back to the middle and Bernie
40:34
made clear this week that his intention
40:37
is to make sure there’s no pivot and in
40:39
fact that Joe Biden becomes just as
40:41
unelectable as he was by the way did you
40:44
see the Babylon be headline Sanders
40:47
withdraws from race because goals of
40:49
doubling federal spending and destroying
40:51
capitalism already accomplished no I
40:55
didn’t I shouldn’t laugh laugh or cry so
40:59
I have I’ve got a closing question which
41:03
I’m lovely closing question but I can’t
41:05
close just yet do you I don’t know how
41:09
to articulate this one but Donald Trump
41:15
even people who like him can’t stand him
41:19
up to this point a lot of people the
41:22
position of many people has been oh my
41:26
goodness do we nevertheless on policy
41:28
he’s okay he’s better than the
41:31
alternatives the policy is okay and as
41:34
long as we don’t have to look at him
41:35
it’ll be all right is there some sense
41:39
maybe in which for the first time the
41:46
fate of the ordinary American is linked
41:48
to that guy as we go through this
41:51
there’s some
41:53
something this happens to some
41:55
presidents but not all to some of course
41:58
always to wartime presidents but you
42:01
begin to feel I don’t like him I don’t
42:04
but he’s my guy
42:06
he’s the country’s guy we need him to
42:08
succeed is that sort of is there some
42:11
sense in which there’s a kind of
42:12
deepening of support or beginning of
42:16
some kind of attachment to him as a
42:18
result of this crisis or am I just
42:20
talking romantic not unquantifiable
42:22
romantic nonsense no I mean look I think
42:26
the phenomenon you described is one that
42:29
you would expect to be seeing in a crowd
42:32
in a crisis right I think that as with
42:35
so many ID issues it comes down to
42:40
Donald Trump and it’s fundamentally
42:42
gonna be up to Donald Trump in that
42:45
regard as well to look I look for
42:47
instance just my own view I look at
42:48
these briefings and when I think they
42:50
first started I thought they were a good
42:51
idea it made the president look engaged
42:54
and they had things you know as they
42:56
have gone on and become a little bit
42:58
more the Donald Trump show you know and
43:02
and the drama of the fights with the
43:04
reporters that’s not what people want to
43:05
be seeing right now okay you know they
43:08
want him to get up there deliver the
43:10
news send the message that they’ve got a
43:13
handle on what’s going on and then let
43:17
the rest of the team talk and get on
43:19
with it
43:19
so I’m not quite sure he can help
43:22
himself and you know the thing about
43:24
Donald Trump is I don’t everyone says
43:26
it’s about his ego and everything I
43:28
think it’s more Donald Trump you know he
43:31
I think he thinks he’s you know fully
43:33
engaged in doing the right thing and
43:35
being there for the American people and
43:37
that sometimes a dividing line between
43:38
what Trump wants for Trump and what
43:41
Trump is trying to do for everyone else
43:43
is is is very murky okay
43:46
now we pull back from Donald Trump in
43:48
the current crisis let’s look let’s
43:51
expand our thinking raised our thinking
43:53
from weeks and quarters even two years
43:56
here’s Kim Strauss on The Wall Street
43:58
Journal on March 19th
44:00
the nation’s response to the crisis has
44:03
been made possible quote by free-market
44:06
policies that have under
44:07
written three years of economic boom and
44:09
put companies on a better footing to
44:11
confront hard times if the US is to
44:13
overcome this crisis and future ones we
44:17
need more of these animal spirits not
44:19
less that’s the takeaway of this
44:22
pandemic more animal spirits not less
44:25
are you optimistic well look here’s
44:28
something that I hope our side as you
44:31
were saying embraces we’re talking right
44:34
now about the threat of bigger
44:35
government given all of the spending
44:37
we’re talking right now about the threat
44:39
to the economy and our politics should
44:42
certain you know socialist candidates
44:46
win in November but what I see here is
44:50
also an opportunity for people to
44:52
realize the problems of government okay
44:55
I mean no one we need to make sure no
44:58
one forgets that the reason we’re
44:59
shutdown is because government shut us
45:02
down all right and we need to take a
45:04
look around I have been fascinated how
45:07
many times over the last three weeks
45:08
have we had a story about this or that
45:11
agency dismantling a regulation so that
45:14
something could proceed more quickly I
45:17
think this is an opportunity for us to
45:19
ask why they were there in the first
45:21
place and are they really serving any
45:23
purpose you know maybe we could come out
45:25
of this with a healthier view of
45:27
government and its problems and maybe
45:30
even a smaller more streamlined one if
45:33
we if we do things the right way
45:35
Kym’s Drossel don’t stay in alaska too
45:38
long
45:41
Kimberly Strasse love The Wall Street
45:43
Journal thank you thank you for uncommon
45:46
knowledge the Hoover Institution and Fox
45:49
Nation I’m Peter Robinson
45:52
[Music]
46:01
you