Joe Rogan: We are Living in a Time of Adolescent Communication

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41:31
whole mask thing apparently I was like
41:33
really arguing you shouldn’t wear a mask
41:35
or you’re a [ __ ] god it’s but that’s
41:38
also the problem with sound bites on
41:40
Twitter yeah it’s
41:41
you know it exists it’s the content
41:44
factory and you know anybody that
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creates content you know then that goes
41:50
out into the world and look they’re
41:51
looking for for eyeballs to and that’s
41:54
why I always feel like like I take [ __ ]
41:58
but I can’t complain about it because
41:59
that’s part of the guy right that’s part
42:03
of the game that’s what I do for living
42:04
so like when people say let it go
42:06
correctness it’s overwhelming I just say
42:08
like amen it’s just other people pushing
42:12
back and getting to say their [ __ ] and
42:13
that’s exactly what they should be doing
42:16
the internet and it’s democratized you
42:19
know outraged and there’s more speech
42:23
now than there’s ever been before in the
42:25
history of the world like we all know
42:26
you know it’s like that what’s the movie
42:28
with the Mel Gibson where he knows what
42:32
women what would you think Yeah right
42:34
so yeah ESP Twitter and the Internet is
42:38
just we all have developed the ESP and
42:39
now we know what everybody is thinking
42:41
it’s all every day we’re just bombarded
42:44
by what everybody’s saying well you’re
42:46
also bombarded by the people that spend
42:47
the most time doing it because there’s a
42:50
lot of mentally unwell people that spend
42:52
their entire day camp down on Twitter
42:54
having arguments and if you want to
42:57
venture into that world and risk your
42:59
consciousness and your health your met
43:01
your literal mental health by
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communicating in this really crude
43:05
manner with text messages and you know
43:08
arguing over semantics with people that
43:10
you don’t even know it’s it’s a terrible
43:12
way to exist are you on Twitter do you
43:15
have a Twitter account but I don’t read
43:16
it it goes you know I post things on
43:20
inner on Instagram they go to Twitter
43:22
occasionally I’ll post things on Twitter
43:23
but I don’t read it it’s just too toxic
43:26
man I get it you know and I know when I
43:29
[ __ ] up and I know when people are mad
43:31
at me when it’s legit and valid and I
43:33
know when they’re mad at me for nonsense
43:35
and I I’m my worst self critic so I
43:38
don’t need other people yelling at me I
43:40
know what I did wrong and stay clear
43:42
healthy I think that’s the only approach
43:44
you can have in this environment I think
43:46
it’s a healthy way to look at it and you
43:48
know I always try and keep myself like
43:50
you figure when when people are coming
43:52
at it there’s probably to be something
43:54
constructive in there
43:55
sometimes energy to like find it and
43:57
sometimes I’m just like I really can
43:59
used yeah sometimes you can’t do it but
44:01
yeah there’s value in criticism it’s
44:03
very important but not too much it’s
44:05
like anything else like you there’s
44:07
value in a little bit of snake venom you
44:09
develop a tolerance but if you get a big
44:11
fat dose you’re dead and it’s in in many
44:14
ways it’s the same with interacting with
44:16
people that are upset with you there’s
44:17
gonna people people that are upset with
44:19
everybody for no reason no matter what
44:21
the story is in the news even if it’s
44:22
clear-cut to you and I there’s going to
44:24
be someone who has a violent opposition
44:25
to that idea it doesn’t mean they’re
44:27
right it doesn’t mean you’re right it
44:29
just means people have a lot of
44:31
different [ __ ] ways of looking at the
44:32
world and if you want to exist in
44:34
conflict in perpetuity stay on Twitter
44:37
and stay on Twitter all day long and
44:38
just argue with people I don’t want to
44:41
do that you know and again it’s not that
44:43
I don’t have any room for improvement
44:45
it’s not that I don’t appreciate or
44:47
accept or recognize the value of
44:48
criticism because I definitely do it’s
44:50
that it’s not healthy it’s not healthy
44:53
for me it’s not it could directly affect
44:55
the kind of content I put out it’s not
44:57
good that’s what I was upset do you feel
45:00
like one of the hardest thing to do is
45:02
to maintain your kind of creative
45:06
barometer so that you don’t let those
45:10
kinds of things when you feel like
45:13
they’re not constructive pulling it too
45:15
far to the outrage world where some
45:18
other things like to maintain that and
45:21
that’s why I think it’s good like what
45:22
you do in terms of Congress is like you
45:22
you do in terms of Congress is like you
45:24
basically say you know I’m gonna do long
45:27
form because that you know feels like at
45:31
least from my perspective the healthiest
45:33
form
45:34
yeah it’s conversation but is even in
45:37
that case people will take long-form
45:40
edit things out of context and then it
45:42
becomes the same problem that we have on
45:45
Twitter and with everything else you get
45:46
these little sound bites so there’s
45:48
little video clips and you don’t
45:50
understand the full context of the
45:52
conversation or what was actually said
45:54
and then people get outraged at that
45:56
it’s you know it’s we are living in a
45:59
very strange time and I believe it’s an
46:01
adolescent stage of communication and I
46:03
think it’s going to give our
46:04
frustrations for this are going to give
46:06
birth to a better full
46:08
and I think one of the things that
46:09
podcasts what it’s in response to the
46:13
popularity of the long-form is in
46:15
response to people being upset with like
46:18
these traditional late-night talk show
46:20
things where there’s a window here with
46:22
one guy on the right and a window here
46:23
with a guy on the left and there’s a
46:24
person in the center and they’re yelling
46:25
at each other and then you cut to
46:26
commercial and you don’t really feel
46:27
like things got resolved so the response
46:30
to that where people gravitate it’s
46:32
three is theater yeah I think he’s was
46:37
it hard for you you know when we came up
46:39
his comments it was also at that point
46:42
like it was sort of a gladiatorial
46:43
environment you know and I remember you
46:45
know the Boston scene you know was
46:48
always like that’s a tough scene yeah
46:50
he’d come up and it was kind of
46:53
gladiatorial and but you had that
46:55
audience and you develop kind of that
46:57
thick skin is it hard to then make that
46:59
switch in your mind to this different
47:03
form that’s so much more considered so
47:06
much less about conquering the stage
47:11
yeah it is about being open and is that
47:15
something that for you what was the
47:19
switch for you from those two forms
47:22
because that’s and that’s an interesting
47:23
switch well in the beginning there
47:26
wasn’t very good switch you know it’s
47:28
like one of the reasons why the early
47:29
episode sucked it’s like I didn’t know
47:31
what I was doing and I didn’t think
47:32
anybody was listening it was just for
47:34
fun and there was a lot of just hanging
47:36
out with comics and just doing what
47:37
comics do if we were at a diner
47:39
somewhere just talking [ __ ] and making
47:41
each other laugh but we were doing it
47:43
and videotaping it and then along the
47:45
way I started interviewing actual
47:47
interesting people and talking to them
47:49
and having conversations and not you
47:51
know I don’t you know I there’s a place
47:53
for comedy and then I don’t I make a
47:56
really big point in never trying to
47:59
force comedy into places where it
48:01
doesn’t belong that’s I do that also
48:04
with the UFC when I do commentary I’m
48:05
never funny there’s no reason to be it’s
48:07
not what my job is you know and then
48:09
when I’m doing a conversation with
48:11
someone I just try to talk I don’t try
48:14
to be a comic I don’t try I just I’m a
48:16
human I want I want to know what they’re
48:18
talking about and I want to I want to
48:20
get them to expand upon their
48:22
ideas as best they can and I want to be
48:24
engaged that’s what I’m trying to do so
48:27
it wasn’t that it wasn’t that was a big
48:30
transition it was that I had to learn
48:31
how to do this thing
48:33
that I didn’t I think was a skill I
48:34
thought that like being on the radio or
48:37
podcasting you know was just talking
48:39
that’s what I thought it so you’re just
48:40
talking and then I realize no no you’re
48:42
talking in a way that people want to
48:45
listen you’re making it entertaining
48:47
you’re keeping your ego in check you’re
48:49
you’re moving the conversation along way
48:51
not being overbearing you’re not letting
48:54
people ramble too much where it’s boring
48:56
you you got to figure out how to juice
48:57
things up and push them and massage them
48:59
and move him around it’s a skill and I
49:02
didn’t think it was a skill and you know
49:04
and like I said that’s one of the
49:06
reasons when my early episodes suck so
49:07
bad there wasn’t given any consideration
49:10
to the fact that people were listening
49:11
it was just fun we’re just doing it for
49:14
ourselves and then along the way and in
49:17
this house he also speaks to the value
49:19
of criticism I read a bunch of criticism
49:21
about what was wrong with the podcast
49:23
you know that I talk we talk over each
49:26
other I talk too much whatever it was
49:28
and I took it to heart and I would think
49:30
about it I’ll go okay I gotta consider
49:32
that people are listening to this this
49:34
isn’t just what I want to say it’s what
49:36
I want people to hear I know how I want
49:38
it just like stand up you wanted the
49:40
joke to easily enter into a person’s
49:42
mind so it’s so well written and so
49:45
perfectly timed that the audience goes
49:47
John Stewart’s got this I’m just gonna
49:49
sit back and let him take my thoughts on
49:51
a ride and that’s that’s what really
49:53
good stand-up is I mean it’s one of the
49:55
reason why dave was able to do that 8:46
49:58
special that way where he has this long
50:02
drawn-out story with so many important
50:06
points and a few laughs thrown in there
50:08
but so engaged and it’s he’s so you just
50:12
go with him you just let him take you
50:14
just let him take you and that’s that’s
50:16
everything whether it’s someone giving a
50:19
speech or you know I mean even like just
50:24
almost every conversation that we have
50:26
it’s there’s a skill to it that we’re
50:28
not taught I mean you know what it’s
50:30
like to talk to someone where they’re
50:31
not even really talking to you they’re
50:33
just kind of waiting for
50:35
them to talk they’re waiting for you to
50:36
finish so they can talk about themselves
50:37
that’s that’s a real problem with people
50:40
and communicating and I had to learn how
50:42
to I learn how to be a better
50:44
communicator really it also had to be
50:46
authentically you because there is now
50:49
like I think the best measure sometimes
50:52
of art or a standard for those things is
50:55
when you you hear things or see things
50:57
that are uniquely that person like
50:59
nobody could have delivered 8:46 good
51:03
day right line perfect yeah it just
51:06
authentically uniquely in your voice
51:10
that you develop authentically uniquely
51:12
and that’s a hard thing to develop it’s
51:13
funny because I feel like that’s what
51:16
stand-up helped to do for me hmm us when
51:19
you do that in front of our eyes even
51:21
I’ll give like boss as an example you
51:22
know when we’d be working next you do
51:24
that that run of mixes like in the
51:26
framingham and the other ones you know
51:27
we go to the the one in Central Boston
51:31
first and I can remember I hadn’t played
51:36
the room before and I was I was a young
51:37
comic and I just don’t let her and I
51:39
think I’ve gotten like a big break and
51:41
so the guys at Nick’s booked me on that
51:44
run to be a headliner my first run on
51:48
those next properties so I came into
51:50
Nicks and they were just gonna throw me
51:53
up on stage and what they did was so
51:57
such a learning experience because you
51:58
kind of think like I’m on Letterman I’m
52:00
just gonna walk into this place I’m
52:01
coming up from your top bed a comedy I’m
52:04
gonna [ __ ] strut my stuff and Nicks
52:06
and they threw up before me I think it
52:10
was Lenny Clarke Kenny Robertson and
52:14
swinging and I walked in the room and it
52:19
was like Dresden like they had so blown
52:23
that room out with brilliance and then
52:25
it was like and from New York a
52:27
Letterman guy John Stehr and it was it
52:32
was like they were clubbing a baby seal
52:35
I was just but man they did that to
52:39
everybody it but so like wonderfully
52:42
humbling yeah he is it makes you realize
52:44
in the moment like all right
52:46
I’ve got a [ __ ] ton of work to do yes
52:48
like okay just murder it brilliant [ __ ]
52:52
and you’re just like that boy yeah if
52:56
you want to be humbled that the Boston
52:59
comedy scene in the late 80s in the
53:01
early 90s that was the place to be it
53:04
was a great place to develop too though
53:05
because it lets you know I mean you
53:08
never want to be overconfidence one of
53:09
the worst things you could be in
53:10
anything and you never want to be lazy
53:12
if you’re especially when you’re
53:14
delivering something to people that are
53:16
actually paying to see you talk right
53:19
like man there’s such a such a important
53:23
connection that you have to those people
53:25
it has got it you’ve got to do the work
53:28
it’s got to be your best version and if
53:31
you’re not doing that and they know
53:33
you’re not doing that they get angry at
53:34
you it’s like it’s the anger that an
53:37
audience has towards a comic that’s
53:38
bombing is very difficult to describe
53:41
you know like they’re mad they can do
53:43
that too they can talk to like why the
53:45
[ __ ] are you talking like if you’re not
53:48
on in you know there’s real valuable
53:50
lessons to that as a crack coming up
53:52
that you do apply to whether it’s
53:54
podcast and you’re hosting any kind of a
53:56
show ya know there’s a fertility to it
53:58
and if you don’t stay on top of it you
54:00
know the energy that room is is a bear
54:03
that will get up and walk out of the
54:04
room if you’re not careful but it’s
54:07
interesting also though now so you’re
54:08
known now stand up when you’re down
54:11
versus stand up when you’re not there’s
54:13
also a difference because you walk into
54:16
a room when they know you and there is
54:18
you know you don’t have to be as sharp
54:22
if you don’t want to because they’re and
54:23
that’s a discipline as well yeah I mean
54:26
that you’re not coasting on maybe some
54:29
goodwill that they had for you based on
54:32
something else that’s very dangerous
54:33
that’s one of the reasons why the Comedy
54:35
Store is so important because when I go
54:37
there it’s not my crowd it’s my crowd
54:39
and you know Anthony Jeselnik crowd and
54:43
Ali Wong’s crowd and like there’s a lot
54:45
of people there coming to see everybody
54:47
and so and you’re going on after all
54:49
these murderers so it’s when you’re when
54:52
you’re in that kind of an environment
54:53
you sort of have to dot your i’s and
54:55
cross your T’s you got to do the work
54:57
right are you still really involved like
54:59
because for me you know once I did
55:02
started the show and once I had kids
55:04
like I’ll really get to the clubs
55:06
anymore so it almost feels like old
55:09
timers day when I show up showed up he’s
55:13
good you know but I wish I I wish I
55:17
could get out there more and every night
55:18
it would be you know you’re like 8
55:19
o’clock I’m like I should I should just
55:21
drive up to the city and go work the
55:23
cellar and then my wife will be like
55:25
bachelor in paradise is on all right
55:27
yeah yeah well the way I had been
55:31
setting it up at the store was all my
55:33
sets would be after 10 o’clock for the
55:35
most part except rarely rarely I would
55:38
do an 8 o’clock show so everybody would
55:40
be in bed so I’d leave my house and my
55:42
set wouldn’t be probably until 11:00 so
55:45
I’d leave my house and everybody’d be
55:46
asleep and it was perfect and I just and
55:49
I that’s also my favorite time to write
55:51
to I would come home from the store and
55:53
everybody’d be asleep fire up a joint
55:55
and sit in front of laptop and come up
55:57
with some ideas and it’s I had it down
55:59
to a science before the the lockdown
56:01
right has the lockdown mess your
56:06
creature I don’t know I mean I mean my
56:10
comedy routine it certainly has I don’t
56:12
know I mean I’m doing my first shows
56:14
this weekend in Houston I don’t know
56:15
what the [ __ ] gonna happen I don’t
56:17
know if I know how to do it anymore
56:18
that’s gonna be very strange like you
56:23
couldn’t go more into the belly of the
56:24
beast like right juicy yeah like it’s
56:26
like being on the surface of being like
56:28
it’s off your charts with this thing
56:29
yeah I’m gonna go on stage with two
56:30
bottles of Lysol and just you know girls
56:33
do that thing when they spray perfume
56:34
and they walk through it I do that with
56:37
Lysol on stage I mean I think it’s
56:42
really critical to strengthen your
56:44
immune system and I do a lot of things
56:45
to do that and I think that’s something
56:47
that people need to really concentrate
56:48
on and I really wish that our elected
56:50
officials were talking more about that
56:52
and having speeches with doctors and
56:55
doing the office you never shall Obama
56:58
tried to do like try to put kale in
57:01
something and everybody was like what
57:02
I’m sorry go back to tater tots
57:08
yeah I mean just the science on vitamin
57:12
supplementation and how critical it is
57:14
for your immune system particularly
57:15
vitamin D that is that could literally
57:17
save lives and that knowledge is not
57:20
secret that knowledge is out there you
57:22
did those those episodes on the game
57:24
changers the James was and that was it
57:28
was fascinating it was because I watched
57:30
that movie and you know nutrition is
57:33
also like diet is such an important part
57:35
of what we do to ourselves that we that
57:38
we don’t think and especially in a time
57:39
of kovat where so many people like to
57:43
say like when you see what this does the
57:45
people with type 1 diabetes are four
57:47
with other kinds of you know conditions
57:51
that might be caused from either poor
57:53
diet or lack of access to know healthier
57:56
options and things like that you realize
57:58
like [ __ ] we put ourselves in a very
58:01
vulnerable position
58:02
yeah very vulnerable yeah we Andrew
58:05
Schultz had a really good point he said
58:07
this this pandemic highlighted the
58:10
vulnerabilities both in our economic
58:11
system and in our health system like the
58:15
way we are as human beings the what
58:17
who’s vulnerable the obese people people
58:20
with diabetes older folks I mean it
58:22
highlights all these issues where you
58:25
know we we really need to concentrate on
58:28
for the future if you want more people
58:29
to survive this there is there are
58:32
strategies that can be implemented and
58:34
we really we really need to talk to
58:36
people about just being normal stuff
58:38
being D hiding well hydrated making sure
58:41
you’re not dehydrated well rested teach
58:44
people meditation techniques is not hard
58:46
to learn some breathing exercises that
58:48
have been actually proven to increase
58:51
your immune function it’s not hard to
58:53
teach people about vitamin D and
58:55
supplementing it if you can’t go outside
58:56
so how do you get people then to take
58:59
action because here’s the other thing
59:01
you remember like those lives are hard
59:02
yeah you’re dealing when you’re talking
59:04
about like we talked about earlier like
59:06
economic inequality you know it’s hard
59:10
to go into an area where they feel like
59:12
[ __ ] I don’t know where my next meal is
59:13
coming from and be like so here’s what
59:16
we’re gonna do we’re just gonna sit and
59:17
breathe quiet these five minutes and I
59:19
know
59:20
it’s a really difficult it’s like
59:23
hierarchy of needs you know yeah how do
59:26
you how do you work into the idea that
59:30
those types of theories are actually
59:33
important to the betterment of like and
59:36
the stability of the larger part of
59:38
their life when they’re fighting so hard
59:40
just to stay afloat yeah it’s a that’s
59:43
an interesting point and I think what
59:46
you have to do is it has to be first of
59:48
all told by people who are doing it
59:51
successfully so people that are doing it
59:54
that like maybe were struggling with
59:55
their immune system and turned it around
59:58
and got healthier like those people are
60:00
the ones that the people that are in a
60:01
bad position right now they really
60:03
respond to when it comes to you live
60:05
there’s an emotional connection with if
60:07
you see some guide is in the cover of
60:08
Men’s Health magazine he’s ripped and he
60:10
starts talking about fitness you like
60:11
get the [ __ ] out of here I can’t relate
60:13
to you I’m never gonna look like that
60:14
but if you see someone who is in the
60:16
situation that you’re in currently and
60:19
they turned it around
60:21
well that me but listen I’ve been
60:24
working out my whole life I’ve never
60:25
stopped okay but if someone is fat I’m
60:29
talking from their perspective and they
60:30
see some guy who’s really thin and
60:33
chiseled then it’s not going to make
60:34
sense to them that they could ever be
60:36
like that but if they see someone
60:38
there’s a lot of really fantastic photos
60:40
and and and Instagram and Facebook pages
60:43
online where you can get inspiration
60:45
from someone who actually stuck to a
60:47
diet actually stuck to an exercise
60:49
routine and then speaks really well
60:51
about how much it improved the way they
60:54
feel their emotions their depression all
60:56
the aspects of their life and that’s I
60:58
think one of the more like David Goggins
61:00
is a great example that I use him all
61:02
the time because he’s this incredibly
61:04
inspirational guy who was a Navy SEAL
61:07
and at one point in time he’s 300 pounds
61:09
he was drinking milkshakes and he puts
61:10
those pictures of himself on Instagram
61:12
all the time just to let people know hey
61:15
I’m not some alien I’m a person who was
61:18
weak just like you I was lazy I got fat
61:21
and then I figured out how to train my
61:23
mind to be disciplined and I’d figured
61:25
out how to be happier and I think that
61:27
that’s really important for people to
61:29
see that it’s we’re not in a static
61:31
State we’re all in a constant state of
61:34
him
61:34
provement and growth hopefully or
61:35
deterioration if you’re not careful but
61:38
does that you know the thing that I
61:40
worry about those sometimes is similarly
61:43
to economic distress does it make a
61:47
person’s health
61:49
be a function of their virtue does it
61:52
does it take something that is beyond a
61:54
lot of people’s control that isn’t that
61:57
a little bit of like a matter if you
61:59
just pull your pants up you could do it
62:02
like no it’s not it’s known it is the
62:04
way I know what you’re saying but it’s
62:06
not it’s I did this and I can show you
62:09
how I did it and maybe you can do it too
62:11
that’s what it is we don’t have to look
62:12
at every success is somehow or another
62:14
thumbing in the face of people who can’t
62:16
achieve a similar goal but there are
62:20
enough people out there that can that we
62:23
should concentrate on that because I
62:24
think it’ll have a significant
62:25
improvement on the overall health of us
62:27
again as a community and I think this is
62:30
really how we have to look at the United
62:33
States and human beings on earth in
62:35
general we have to look at each other as
62:37
a bunch of people that could very well
62:39
be neighbors we’re community and if
62:41
you’re my friend and you were fat and
62:43
you were willing to listen and I used to
62:46
be fat too and I can tell you hey man
62:48
this is what I did I stopped drinking
62:50
soda was there are people that are I
62:53
mean I understand the point there and
62:56
I’m okay I’m an advocate for plant-based
62:58
stuff I think that’s it’s a healthy way
63:00
to do it
63:01
but obviously eating is such a personal
63:03
experience that I hesitate to ever
63:05
impart that in any other way but I just
63:10
feel like sometimes for people it’s
63:15
almost more debilitating for that
63:18
mentality of this is how you doing just
63:21
gotta get your [ __ ] together and go
63:23
through this way I do think you have to
63:25
present more options but know that it’s
63:28
maybe more complicated and people can be
63:31
overweight or whatever and be healthy
63:33
it’s not necessarily you know something
63:38
that’s corrosive to them but well it is
63:40
though being overweight is necessarily
63:43
corrosive it’s not healthy for anybody
63:44
it’s less healthy
63:47
and being at an optimal weight that’s
63:50
what’s important it gives you some sort
63:52
of a burden
63:53
whether that burden is sustainable is
63:55
debatable maybe for some people it is
63:57
for some people it isn’t look some
63:58
people can smoke until they’re 90 and
64:00
they’re fine
64:01
other people pancreatic cancer like
64:03
Hicks and died in their 30s it it
64:06
depends
64:07
wildly on the person but the idea that
64:10
you can be fat and you can be healthy I
64:12
think is a dangerous narrative because
64:14
you’re telling people listen don’t
64:16
improve you don’t have to you can be
64:19
healthy and be obese at the same time
64:21
but the medical science does not really
64:24
support that the more weight you lose up
64:28
to a certain point you know but when you
64:30
if you get to a healthy body mass your
64:32
body works better it’s really simple it
64:34
doesn’t tax your immune system as much
64:36
doesn’t tax your heart as much it’s
64:38
better for you it’s better for your
64:40
joints it doesn’t mean that we should
64:44
ignore people that are overweight and
64:46
you know and pretend that you know that
64:49
they’re they’re not worthy or they’re
64:51
not they’re not good folks I have a very
64:55
emotional because I feel protective
64:58
you’re nice over people and I I just
65:01
yeah I think you sweetheart it’s great
65:04
that’s a good thing no it is it’s the
65:07
the reason why you’re thinking like this
65:09
because we’re talking right we’re
65:12
talking about people doing well and you
65:13
like [ __ ] what about the people can’t do
65:15
well let’s reach out to them and offer
65:17
them an olive branch and yeah I get it
65:18
man I guess you’re right you’re right
65:20
look I have very good friends that are
65:22
morbidly obese and they don’t want to
65:24
listen and there’s nothing I can do I
65:26
just hug them when I see them and you
65:27
know I hope that one day they come to
65:29
grips with it and they change but they
65:31
don’t have to you know you you live this
65:33
life for a certain amount of time and if
65:35
you want to live it eating cake and
65:36
drinking beer that’s you you do whatever
65:39
you want we’re all on the end in the end
65:41
we’re all gonna be in the ground it’s
65:42
all pointless conversation sort out
65:50
optimistically take in this country and
65:52
turning it around and a very fatalistic
65:55
officer
65:56
well that’s true the end in the end
65:57
we’re all dying
65:58
that’s how that story ends we’re all
66:00
dead so the the story with what I don’t
66:04
want people to do is suffer and I want
66:05
people to feel better while they’re
66:06
alive and I think that’s something
66:08
that’s missed in the message of health
66:10
improvement like you will actually have
66:12
a better experience on earth and it’ll
66:15
help you mitigate stress it’ll help you
66:17
it’ll help you have better relationships
66:19
because you won’t be burdened down with
66:21
a lot of like anxiety and stress that
66:23
literally comes from a physical release
66:25
of energy I look at the body like a
66:27
battery and I think that some people’s
66:29
batteries just overflowing with
66:31
corrosive material because they never
66:33
exert it
66:34
they never blow it out a battery a
66:35
battery is a bad analogy but there’s
66:37
there’s a certain amount of physical
66:39
requirement I think your body has to has
66:42
and if you don’t give that that body
66:44
that physical exertion it doesn’t feel
66:46
good we’re we’ve evolved to hunt and
66:49
gather and build homes and survive from
66:52
predators and we carry around all the
66:54
burdens in our body of this past and
66:57
there’s no getting around that and you
66:59
could either deny it and just deal with
67:01
all the tension or you can exert your
67:03
energy find some way to calm your mind
67:06
and live a life that’s better let me ask
67:10
you a question egg because now this is
67:11
I’m wondering because you’re talking
67:14
about sort of evolving to a place where
67:17
your body and like when you had James on
67:19
and he was talking about babies do you
67:23
have moral qualms about meat or do you
67:26
not like you said well you know we’re
67:28
hunters and and that like is that ever
67:30
an issue for you or is it purely a
67:32
health issue or there’s both things
67:35
there’s a health issue there is a moral
67:37
qualms with factory farming there’s not
67:39
a moral qualms qualms with health with
67:41
hunting because I I know the reality of
67:43
the life of a deer if you don’t kill
67:46
that deer it’s gonna die a horrible
67:48
death from a wolf or a coyote or a
67:50
mountain lion or whatever the [ __ ] gets
67:52
ahold of it
67:53
it’s got Ruiz to death it’s going you
67:55
can either die quickly by the hand of a
67:57
person you respect that life and it’ll
67:59
nurture your body and the bodies of your
68:01
family our problem is a disconnection
68:03
more than anything and let me tell you
68:05
something when the kovat lockdown
68:06
happened I got more requests from
68:08
friends and more requests for
68:09
information about hunting and gun
68:11
ownership how do I
68:12
protect myself and how do I feed myself
68:13
and how do I grow food those were three
68:15
really big questions that I kept getting
68:17
from people it’s fine I have such a
68:19
different perspective on it in terms of
68:22
just the the relationship between myself
68:28
and I didn’t house a big meat-eater was
68:30
a big like deli guy pastrami and corned
68:32
beef and all that my wife got into
68:35
rescue and these types of things and we
68:37
ended over the farm with pigs and goats
68:40
and sheep and things like that and it
68:44
became untenable for me to make that
68:47
decision you know that that sort of that
68:50
decision of I think you’ll be better off
68:53
if I kill you and then it became it was
68:58
something I could no longer manage once
69:01
I knew the process of it and that it was
69:05
a hard it’s been a very hard process for
69:09
me it’s only been about four or five
69:10
years how was your health I mean I’m an
69:14
old Jew so baseline pretty much we don’t
69:20
age well to begin with how old do you
69:23
know John we age a bit like avocados
69:25
when you leave them out
69:26
yeah I’m 57 I’m 52 so or in similar
69:32
boats similar boat you know but I mean
69:36
it’s hard to know I feel good you know
69:39
if you look at markers like cholesterol
69:41
or blood pressure those things it’s
69:44
better but like you say I don’t I don’t
69:48
know enough about how the body processes
69:52
to know if I’m I feel better the numbers
69:56
say I’m better but you know genetics I’m
70:00
sure plays a part in it as well but the
70:03
funny thing is like I don’t even think
70:06
about it anymore
70:06
like it just don’t even think about it
70:08
anymore well let’s get into a custom and
70:12
once your gut biome changes you know you
70:14
really get accustomed to whatever you’re
70:16
eating good or bad unfortunately and
70:18
that’s one of the reasons why people
70:19
have such a hard time quitting sugar and
70:20
bread and pasta and things along those
70:22
lines so your body just craves it that’s
70:24
what it wants we start eating healthier
70:26
food your body does great that can go
70:28
off of meat and still be incredibly
70:30
unhealthy like you know you can be vegan
70:32
and just exist on Lay’s potato chips
70:35
yeah and so it is you know and it’s a
70:38
tougher Road and the world is certainly
70:41
not it’s not built for that and it
70:44
certainly feels a little bit of a
70:49
narrower lane that you have to do and I
70:52
also think it’s an incredibly emotional
70:54
topic yeah like very little that’s as
70:56
emotional and personal as what people
71:00
put in their bodies and how they eat and
71:01
what they do and I’m always very
71:03
respectful because I also I got no leg
71:05
to stand on man I like this is what I’m
71:07
doing it feels better for me but I I
71:11
always say like but it’s such a personal
71:16
and individual choice than you
71:18
everybody’s got to do for themselves
71:20
the only thing I would say is like I do
71:22
think it’s important for people to get
71:24
educated on it to read up on like you
71:27
say factory farming well what might be
71:30
the you know nutritional boss of it or
71:33
what are some of the things that are in
71:35
it or what maybe is it going to do to
71:37
our community when you know we use so
71:40
many antibiotics mm-hmm and the meat
71:42
production ah you know that’s the only
71:45
thing I say is like try and educate
71:47
yourself to how your meal gets to your
71:50
table that’s why I’m a huge advocate for
71:53
like local farming and agriculture
71:55
because those are the people they’re
71:57
just growing their food and they’re
71:58
bringing it to your table I find that
72:00
incredible but but I also don’t I try
72:04
not to take a position of judgment on
72:07
people because I feel like that’s unfair
72:09
but I think that’s very wise of you and
72:11
I think that there’s a lot of people
72:13
that share your position on animal death
72:15
and I think that’s one of the more
72:16
promising aspects of laboratory created
72:18
meat as long as it can be done in a way
72:19
that’s actually going to be healthy for
72:21
us it seems like there’s some real
72:23
science behind that and they’re very
72:25
very close to releasing that a large
72:27
scale so it would be actual meat that
72:29
doesn’t come with death which is really
72:31
fascinating oh really yeah yeah you’re
72:34
talking about like the the the one that
72:36
they had I saw like it’s a tank
72:37
and he pulls out it’s like $20,000 for a
72:40
chicken breast they did that yeah it was
72:42
really expensive at one point in time
72:44
but they’ve gotten it down to a burger
72:46
now like they can actually make a burger
72:48
out of this stuff and they feel like as
72:51
this if this technology improves they
72:53
essentially flesh when it’s not a would
72:57
you if you could if you could still have
73:00
the the part of me that you like but it
73:03
came without death do you think you
73:05
would make that switch or is that
73:06
something that well I certainly would
73:08
with domestic animals the the difference
73:10
between that and hunting there’s there’s
73:12
a conservation aspect of it one thing
73:15
that leads to protection of wildlife
73:18
habitat is actually the money that comes
73:20
from hunting tags and hunting equipment
73:23
there’s that there’s also the the type
73:28
of relationship you have with your food
73:31
when you actually work very hard and
73:34
hunt it and kill it is very different
73:36
than buying food from a store and I
73:40
would say similar in a similar way
73:42
growing food when you go to Whole Foods
73:45
sometimes you really got to stop that
73:47
you know there’s there’s a lot that goes
73:48
into the trip the whole yeah it’s a good
73:52
parking spot that’s right yeah I get it
73:55
growing your own food in your backyard
73:57
is very satisfying to and I would say to
74:00
people like that’s a microcosm I guess
74:03
it’s a very micro form of what it feels
74:05
like to hunt an animal and then eat it
74:07
and feed your family for you know if I
74:08
shoot an elk I eat it literally for a
74:11
year so one animal death equals like a
74:14
year of my meals and you know there’s
74:19
also the moral high-ground position you
74:21
know I think a lot of people love to
74:24
look at the moral high ground of eating
74:27
vegetables and only eating vegetables as
74:29
being a superior way to live their life
74:31
and that’s that’s a good decision I
74:33
understand where you’re coming from I
74:35
understand that there’s people that look
74:37
at life very differently than me they
74:40
maybe don’t have the sort of fatalistic
74:42
perspective even though it’s respectful
74:44
I have a very fatalistic perspective
74:46
when it comes to just all organic
74:48
organisms competing
74:50
for resources and for life these animals
74:54
I mean I’ve run into them when they’ve
74:55
killed each other I’ve seen animals that
74:57
have been taken out by other animals
74:59
I’ve come across their bodies torn apart
75:00
by wolves in in the woods it’s a wild
75:03
wild thing out there man and I think
75:05
we’re so insulated by it in the in our
75:08
culture of today that it’s one of the
75:10
reasons why veganism and all these
75:11
things are becoming so attractive I
75:13
would hope that along with that we’re
75:15
gonna be nicer to each other that we’re
75:17
gonna be we’re gonna grow to be a kinder
75:19
human race I really I really hope you
75:21
that yeah because I think it’s about
75:24
consideration you know for me I think
75:26
was there was a certain part of
75:28
consciousness that I never ascribed to
75:31
animals to some extent I mean it’s funny
75:33
because I always thought of myself as oh
75:34
I you know I love animals I you know
75:36
always had dogs and cats you know you’d
75:38
find a bird with a broken wing just
75:39
thinking the boss and two weeks later he
75:41
flies away and you’re a girl but I never
75:44
really ascribed like individuality to
75:46
them and I think backwards the change
75:48
for me was interacting in in an
75:53
individual way when I get firm on the
75:56
font yeah you know I always tell my
75:59
brother once once we named them that’s
76:01
five yeah you watch them like their
76:04
plate though they’ll play or they and it
76:06
just changed my relationship to what I
76:12
wanted it to be with animals and it just
76:16
made it untenable in that moment for me
76:19
but I truly understand like that that is
76:23
in a really individualized personalized
76:28
experience that that that I made and
76:32
like I said I would love it for people
76:34
to make that connection because I think
76:36
it’s profound there is there is
76:38
something about that connection for
76:39
people that when they do see it you know
76:41
it’s funny I’ll talk about the pigs and
76:44
they’ll be like what you know they’re
76:48
they just eat everything you’re like no
76:49
they’re really playful they’re smart
76:51
don’t go nuts you do belly rubs yeah
76:54
it’s it’s but that was shocking I didn’t
76:56
know that they’d stop oh it’s like a
76:59
blob but beings
77:02
we’re talking about nature John and
77:04
there’s nothing natural about a farm
77:06
that’s part of the problem I mean it’s
77:07
all it’s an animal prison and they’re
77:09
domesticated because we give them food
77:11
and we kind of remove the the natural
77:13
fear that they would have of any you
77:15
know eyeball facing forward predator
77:18
which is what we are you know what their
77:21
health like what having our farm with
77:25
sheep and goats and pigs and they’re all
77:27
rescues is like having a nursing home
77:30
like you can’t believe the fragility of
77:34
factory farmed animals like they are to
77:38
be sick like pneumonia like genetically
77:43
the design to gain too much weight for
77:46
their legs it really is you know the
77:50
island of misfit took like they’ve
77:51
genetically modified or done whatever
77:53
they’ve done and and the health of these
77:57
animals that are in our food supply yeah
78:00
that our mainstay of our food supply is
78:02
really suspect
78:04
yeah that’s why nursing them yeah that’s
78:07
why I prefer hunting the when if you’re
78:09
eating an animal that’s a wild animal
78:12
you’re eating an athlete I mean they’re
78:14
they’re sinewy and thick and they’re
78:16
strong and they survived and there’s so
78:19
much more nutrient-dense
78:21
when you’re when you’re talking about
78:23
factory farmed animals you’re talking
78:24
about I mean well factory fired animals
78:26
is the worst version of what human
78:29
beings are capable of they were capable
78:30
of ignoring suffering to the point we
78:32
lock them all in warehouses they’re
78:34
pissed goes down in a tunnel and fills a
78:36
small lake up and they’ve flown over
78:38
these places with drones it’s horrific
78:39
right the pig farms in particularly
78:41
they’re horrific but when you’re talking
78:44
about what you’re doing on your farm
78:47
like of course you can’t eat those
78:48
things they’re your pets that would be I
78:50
mean you’re naming them and flying them
78:52
and touching them but I extrapolate that
78:55
now so my I think what happened was I
78:57
went all right that’s in the same way
79:00
that like I love my dog but if you have
79:03
a dog I wouldn’t kill your dog running
79:06
eat because I look at dogs now in a
79:09
different way so I think I extrapolate
79:10
to the
79:13
animal kingdom in a way that different I
79:15
had it I feel like because of my wife
79:17
and she’s been she’s a much kinder
79:20
smarter version of me so because of her
79:26
kind of showing me that relationship and
79:28
experiencing myself like it’s just
79:30
changed the way that I view it and
79:33
that’s been and it kind of takes us back
79:35
around to the earlier part of the
79:37
conversation because when you think
79:38
about animal agriculture and you talk
79:39
about those hog farms where are they
79:41
located they’re located in the poorest
79:43
neighborhoods right they locate any
79:46
environmental damage that they do is
79:48
also damage that’s done to poor rural
79:52
communities that live around them now
79:55
I’m not suggesting that there’s not
79:56
economic there’s an economic incentive
79:59
and an industry around it and certainly
80:02
not you know you don’t just end
80:04
industries but reform again like it it
80:10
certainly Georgia P Bush said this he
80:14
was talking about Donald Trump because
80:15
I’m gonna support Donald Trump because
80:18
Donald Trump is the only thing standing
80:20
between America and socialism and I was
80:24
like the only thing standing between
80:26
American socialism is an inability to
80:29
meaningfully reform capitalism and it’s
80:32
more damaging effects and if we can’t do
80:35
that then the people take to the streets
80:38
I think reform like Bernie was talking
80:43
about those other guys that will save
80:45
capitalism that will save democracy by
80:48
showing that we recognize that there is
80:51
collateral damage to the systems that we
80:54
use to gain wealth and to gain power and
80:57
if we can reform those systems
81:00
meaningfully for the people who suffer
81:03
most terribly under them we save it but
81:08
if we can the best deal gets stormed
81:11
like that’s just what Kennedy say if you
81:13
make peaceful evolution impossible you
81:15
make violent revolution inevitable yeah
81:17
so we I think at some point we have to
81:20
demonstrate the
81:21
we’ll and the stamina to be able to
81:24
attack these problems and that’s why I’m
81:26
holding Joe Rogan ah yeah no I think
81:31
everyone agrees but everyone feels like
81:33
their hands are tied and again I think
81:35
that’s one of the reasons why these
81:37
protests and just this this whole
81:39
explosion after George Floyd has been so
81:43
transformative I think because people
81:45
recognize like this is a real moment of
81:47
change and of course opportunists and
81:49
looters and all kinds of other crazy
81:50
[ __ ] happened along the way but it’s it
81:53
speaks to the fact that there’s so many
81:55
people in street it’s beats it speaks to
81:57
this this like we can actually do
81:59
something now we’ve got momentum let’s
82:01
keep it moving
82:02
are you hopeful yes I’m always hopeful
82:04
I’m very optimistic even though I have a
82:06
fatalistic perspective exact same
82:10
in these terrible times how do you
82:12
remain Oakland I’m like because better
82:15
people outnumber shitty people yes a
82:17
long shot they dish that’s just the
82:20
truth there was some time powerless
82:23
sometimes we may act out of fear or
82:26
resource part whatever that is good
82:28
better people outnumber shady people by
82:31
launch and we’re in an adolescent stage
82:34
of our evolution of as a civilization
82:37
it’s growing and changing there’s never
82:39
been a civilization like us today and
82:41
we’re growing and changing to try to
82:44
suit our real sensibilities and to try
82:47
to to try to get better at this [ __ ]
82:49
thing and not just accept this old crazy
82:52
corrupt structure that’s existed forever
82:55
thank you yeah you put a little fire in
82:58
my belly like this like I really enjoyed
83:03
I’ve really enjoyed the conversation
83:05
this is man I always enjoy talking to
83:07
you I appreciate you very much and I
83:09
don’t get to see you enough all right my
83:11
friend and hopefully when this all ends
83:14
everybody can gather again at the you
83:16
know at the store and had do a good set
83:19
and talk some shared with each other and
83:20
have some fun let’s do it brother
83:22
take care my friend and good luck with
83:23
your film irresistible it’s out when now
83:28
tomorrow tomorrow please jump
83:33
thank you my brother thank you sir bye
83:34
[Applause]
83:38
[Music]
83:39
[Applause]
83:44
[Music]