openpolitics.com

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41:31

whole mask thing apparently I was like

41:33

really arguing you shouldn’t wear a mask

41:35

or you’re a [ __ ] god it’s but that’s

41:38

also the problem with sound bites on

41:40

Twitter yeah it’s

41:41

you know it exists it’s the content

41:44

factory and you know anybody that

41:46

creates content you know then that goes

41:50

out into the world and look they’re

41:51

looking for for eyeballs to and that’s

41:54

why I always feel like like I take [ __ ]

41:58

but I can’t complain about it because

41:59

that’s part of the guy right that’s part

42:03

of the game that’s what I do for living

42:04

so like when people say let it go

42:06

correctness it’s overwhelming I just say

42:08

like amen it’s just other people pushing

42:12

back and getting to say their [ __ ] and

42:13

that’s exactly what they should be doing

42:16

the internet and it’s democratized you

42:19

know outraged and there’s more speech

42:23

now than there’s ever been before in the

42:25

history of the world like we all know

42:26

you know it’s like that what’s the movie

42:28

with the Mel Gibson where he knows what

42:32

women what would you think Yeah right

42:34

so yeah ESP Twitter and the Internet is

42:38

just we all have developed the ESP and

42:39

now we know what everybody is thinking

42:41

it’s all every day we’re just bombarded

42:44

by what everybody’s saying well you’re

42:46

also bombarded by the people that spend

42:47

the most time doing it because there’s a

42:50

lot of mentally unwell people that spend

42:52

their entire day camp down on Twitter

42:54

having arguments and if you want to

42:57

venture into that world and risk your

42:59

consciousness and your health your met

43:01

your literal mental health by

43:03

communicating in this really crude

43:05

manner with text messages and you know

43:08

arguing over semantics with people that

43:10

you don’t even know it’s it’s a terrible

43:12

way to exist are you on Twitter do you

43:15

have a Twitter account but I don’t read

43:16

it it goes you know I post things on

43:20

inner on Instagram they go to Twitter

43:22

occasionally I’ll post things on Twitter

43:23

but I don’t read it it’s just too toxic

43:26

man I get it you know and I know when I

43:29

[ __ ] up and I know when people are mad

43:31

at me when it’s legit and valid and I

43:33

know when they’re mad at me for nonsense

43:35

and I I’m my worst self critic so I

43:38

don’t need other people yelling at me I

43:40

know what I did wrong and stay clear

43:42

healthy I think that’s the only approach

43:44

you can have in this environment I think

43:46

it’s a healthy way to look at it and you

43:48

know I always try and keep myself like

43:50

you figure when when people are coming

43:52

at it there’s probably to be something

43:54

constructive in there

43:55

sometimes energy to like find it and

43:57

sometimes I’m just like I really can

43:59

used yeah sometimes you can’t do it but

44:01

yeah there’s value in criticism it’s

44:03

very important but not too much it’s

44:05

like anything else like you there’s

44:07

value in a little bit of snake venom you

44:09

develop a tolerance but if you get a big

44:11

fat dose you’re dead and it’s in in many

44:14

ways it’s the same with interacting with

44:16

people that are upset with you there’s

44:17

gonna people people that are upset with

44:19

everybody for no reason no matter what

44:21

the story is in the news even if it’s

44:22

clear-cut to you and I there’s going to

44:24

be someone who has a violent opposition

44:25

to that idea it doesn’t mean they’re

44:27

right it doesn’t mean you’re right it

44:29

just means people have a lot of

44:31

different [ __ ] ways of looking at the

44:32

world and if you want to exist in

44:34

conflict in perpetuity stay on Twitter

44:37

and stay on Twitter all day long and

44:38

just argue with people I don’t want to

44:41

do that you know and again it’s not that

44:43

I don’t have any room for improvement

44:45

it’s not that I don’t appreciate or

44:47

accept or recognize the value of

44:48

criticism because I definitely do it’s

44:50

that it’s not healthy it’s not healthy

44:53

for me it’s not it could directly affect

44:55

the kind of content I put out it’s not

44:57

good that’s what I was upset do you feel

45:00

like one of the hardest thing to do is

45:02

to maintain your kind of creative

45:06

barometer so that you don’t let those

45:10

kinds of things when you feel like

45:13

they’re not constructive pulling it too

45:15

far to the outrage world where some

45:18

other things like to maintain that and

45:21

that’s why I think it’s good like what

45:22

you do in terms of Congress is like you

45:22

you do in terms of Congress is like you

45:24

basically say you know I’m gonna do long

45:27

form because that you know feels like at

45:31

least from my perspective the healthiest

45:33

form

45:34

yeah it’s conversation but is even in

45:37

that case people will take long-form

45:40

edit things out of context and then it

45:42

becomes the same problem that we have on

45:45

Twitter and with everything else you get

45:46

these little sound bites so there’s

45:48

little video clips and you don’t

45:50

understand the full context of the

45:52

conversation or what was actually said

45:54

and then people get outraged at that

45:56

it’s you know it’s we are living in a

45:59

very strange time and I believe it’s an

46:01

adolescent stage of communication and I

46:03

think it’s going to give our

46:04

frustrations for this are going to give

46:06

birth to a better full

46:08

and I think one of the things that

46:09

podcasts what it’s in response to the

46:13

popularity of the long-form is in

46:15

response to people being upset with like

46:18

these traditional late-night talk show

46:20

things where there’s a window here with

46:22

one guy on the right and a window here

46:23

with a guy on the left and there’s a

46:24

person in the center and they’re yelling

46:25

at each other and then you cut to

46:26

commercial and you don’t really feel

46:27

like things got resolved so the response

46:30

to that where people gravitate it’s

46:32

three is theater yeah I think he’s was

46:37

it hard for you you know when we came up

46:39

his comments it was also at that point

46:42

like it was sort of a gladiatorial

46:43

environment you know and I remember you

46:45

know the Boston scene you know was

46:48

always like that’s a tough scene yeah

46:50

he’d come up and it was kind of

46:53

gladiatorial and but you had that

46:55

audience and you develop kind of that

46:57

thick skin is it hard to then make that

46:59

switch in your mind to this different

47:03

form that’s so much more considered so

47:06

much less about conquering the stage

47:11

yeah it is about being open and is that

47:15

something that for you what was the

47:19

switch for you from those two forms

47:22

because that’s and that’s an interesting

47:23

switch well in the beginning there

47:26

wasn’t very good switch you know it’s

47:28

like one of the reasons why the early

47:29

episode sucked it’s like I didn’t know

47:31

what I was doing and I didn’t think

47:32

anybody was listening it was just for

47:34

fun and there was a lot of just hanging

47:36

out with comics and just doing what

47:37

comics do if we were at a diner

47:39

somewhere just talking [ __ ] and making

47:41

each other laugh but we were doing it

47:43

and videotaping it and then along the

47:45

way I started interviewing actual

47:47

interesting people and talking to them

47:49

and having conversations and not you

47:51

know I don’t you know I there’s a place

47:53

for comedy and then I don’t I make a

47:56

really big point in never trying to

47:59

force comedy into places where it

48:01

doesn’t belong that’s I do that also

48:04

with the UFC when I do commentary I’m

48:05

never funny there’s no reason to be it’s

48:07

not what my job is you know and then

48:09

when I’m doing a conversation with

48:11

someone I just try to talk I don’t try

48:14

to be a comic I don’t try I just I’m a

48:16

human I want I want to know what they’re

48:18

talking about and I want to I want to

48:20

get them to expand upon their

48:22

ideas as best they can and I want to be

48:24

engaged that’s what I’m trying to do so

48:27

it wasn’t that it wasn’t that was a big

48:30

transition it was that I had to learn

48:31

how to do this thing

48:33

that I didn’t I think was a skill I

48:34

thought that like being on the radio or

48:37

podcasting you know was just talking

48:39

that’s what I thought it so you’re just

48:40

talking and then I realize no no you’re

48:42

talking in a way that people want to

48:45

listen you’re making it entertaining

48:47

you’re keeping your ego in check you’re

48:49

you’re moving the conversation along way

48:51

not being overbearing you’re not letting

48:54

people ramble too much where it’s boring

48:56

you you got to figure out how to juice

48:57

things up and push them and massage them

48:59

and move him around it’s a skill and I

49:02

didn’t think it was a skill and you know

49:04

and like I said that’s one of the

49:06

reasons when my early episodes suck so

49:07

bad there wasn’t given any consideration

49:10

to the fact that people were listening

49:11

it was just fun we’re just doing it for

49:14

ourselves and then along the way and in

49:17

this house he also speaks to the value

49:19

of criticism I read a bunch of criticism

49:21

about what was wrong with the podcast

49:23

you know that I talk we talk over each

49:26

other I talk too much whatever it was

49:28

and I took it to heart and I would think

49:30

about it I’ll go okay I gotta consider

49:32

that people are listening to this this

49:34

isn’t just what I want to say it’s what

49:36

I want people to hear I know how I want

49:38

it just like stand up you wanted the

49:40

joke to easily enter into a person’s

49:42

mind so it’s so well written and so

49:45

perfectly timed that the audience goes

49:47

John Stewart’s got this I’m just gonna

49:49

sit back and let him take my thoughts on

49:51

a ride and that’s that’s what really

49:53

good stand-up is I mean it’s one of the

49:55

reason why dave was able to do that 8:46

49:58

special that way where he has this long

50:02

drawn-out story with so many important

50:06

points and a few laughs thrown in there

50:08

but so engaged and it’s he’s so you just

50:12

go with him you just let him take you

50:14

just let him take you and that’s that’s

50:16

everything whether it’s someone giving a

50:19

speech or you know I mean even like just

50:24

almost every conversation that we have

50:26

it’s there’s a skill to it that we’re

50:28

not taught I mean you know what it’s

50:30

like to talk to someone where they’re

50:31

not even really talking to you they’re

50:33

just kind of waiting for

50:35

them to talk they’re waiting for you to

50:36

finish so they can talk about themselves

50:37

that’s that’s a real problem with people

50:40

and communicating and I had to learn how

50:42

to I learn how to be a better

50:44

communicator really it also had to be

50:46

authentically you because there is now

50:49

like I think the best measure sometimes

50:52

of art or a standard for those things is

50:55

when you you hear things or see things

50:57

that are uniquely that person like

50:59

nobody could have delivered 8:46 good

51:03

day right line perfect yeah it just

51:06

authentically uniquely in your voice

51:10

that you develop authentically uniquely

51:12

and that’s a hard thing to develop it’s

51:13

funny because I feel like that’s what

51:16

stand-up helped to do for me hmm us when

51:19

you do that in front of our eyes even

51:21

I’ll give like boss as an example you

51:22

know when we’d be working next you do

51:24

that that run of mixes like in the

51:26

framingham and the other ones you know

51:27

we go to the the one in Central Boston

51:31

first and I can remember I hadn’t played

51:36

the room before and I was I was a young

51:37

comic and I just don’t let her and I

51:39

think I’ve gotten like a big break and

51:41

so the guys at Nick’s booked me on that

51:44

run to be a headliner my first run on

51:48

those next properties so I came into

51:50

Nicks and they were just gonna throw me

51:53

up on stage and what they did was so

51:57

such a learning experience because you

51:58

kind of think like I’m on Letterman I’m

52:00

just gonna walk into this place I’m

52:01

coming up from your top bed a comedy I’m

52:04

gonna [ __ ] strut my stuff and Nicks

52:06

and they threw up before me I think it

52:10

was Lenny Clarke Kenny Robertson and

52:14

swinging and I walked in the room and it

52:19

was like Dresden like they had so blown

52:23

that room out with brilliance and then

52:25

it was like and from New York a

52:27

Letterman guy John Stehr and it was it

52:32

was like they were clubbing a baby seal

52:35

I was just but man they did that to

52:39

everybody it but so like wonderfully

52:42

humbling yeah he is it makes you realize

52:44

in the moment like all right

52:46

I’ve got a [ __ ] ton of work to do yes

52:48

like okay just murder it brilliant [ __ ]

52:52

and you’re just like that boy yeah if

52:56

you want to be humbled that the Boston

52:59

comedy scene in the late 80s in the

53:01

early 90s that was the place to be it

53:04

was a great place to develop too though

53:05

because it lets you know I mean you

53:08

never want to be overconfidence one of

53:09

the worst things you could be in

53:10

anything and you never want to be lazy

53:12

if you’re especially when you’re

53:14

delivering something to people that are

53:16

actually paying to see you talk right

53:19

like man there’s such a such a important

53:23

connection that you have to those people

53:25

it has got it you’ve got to do the work

53:28

it’s got to be your best version and if

53:31

you’re not doing that and they know

53:33

you’re not doing that they get angry at

53:34

you it’s like it’s the anger that an

53:37

audience has towards a comic that’s

53:38

bombing is very difficult to describe

53:41

you know like they’re mad they can do

53:43

that too they can talk to like why the

53:45

[ __ ] are you talking like if you’re not

53:48

on in you know there’s real valuable

53:50

lessons to that as a crack coming up

53:52

that you do apply to whether it’s

53:54

podcast and you’re hosting any kind of a

53:56

show ya know there’s a fertility to it

53:58

and if you don’t stay on top of it you

54:00

know the energy that room is is a bear

54:03

that will get up and walk out of the

54:04

room if you’re not careful but it’s

54:07

interesting also though now so you’re

54:08

known now stand up when you’re down

54:11

versus stand up when you’re not there’s

54:13

also a difference because you walk into

54:16

a room when they know you and there is

54:18

you know you don’t have to be as sharp

54:22

if you don’t want to because they’re and

54:23

that’s a discipline as well yeah I mean

54:26

that you’re not coasting on maybe some

54:29

goodwill that they had for you based on

54:32

something else that’s very dangerous

54:33

that’s one of the reasons why the Comedy

54:35

Store is so important because when I go

54:37

there it’s not my crowd it’s my crowd

54:39

and you know Anthony Jeselnik crowd and

54:43

Ali Wong’s crowd and like there’s a lot

54:45

of people there coming to see everybody

54:47

and so and you’re going on after all

54:49

these murderers so it’s when you’re when

54:52

you’re in that kind of an environment

54:53

you sort of have to dot your i’s and

54:55

cross your T’s you got to do the work

54:57

right are you still really involved like

54:59

because for me you know once I did

55:02

started the show and once I had kids

55:04

like I’ll really get to the clubs

55:06

anymore so it almost feels like old

55:09

timers day when I show up showed up he’s

55:13

good you know but I wish I I wish I

55:17

could get out there more and every night

55:18

it would be you know you’re like 8

55:19

o’clock I’m like I should I should just

55:21

drive up to the city and go work the

55:23

cellar and then my wife will be like

55:25

bachelor in paradise is on all right

55:27

yeah yeah well the way I had been

55:31

setting it up at the store was all my

55:33

sets would be after 10 o’clock for the

55:35

most part except rarely rarely I would

55:38

do an 8 o’clock show so everybody would

55:40

be in bed so I’d leave my house and my

55:42

set wouldn’t be probably until 11:00 so

55:45

I’d leave my house and everybody’d be

55:46

asleep and it was perfect and I just and

55:49

I that’s also my favorite time to write

55:51

to I would come home from the store and

55:53

everybody’d be asleep fire up a joint

55:55

and sit in front of laptop and come up

55:57

with some ideas and it’s I had it down

55:59

to a science before the the lockdown

56:01

right has the lockdown mess your

56:06

creature I don’t know I mean I mean my

56:10

comedy routine it certainly has I don’t

56:12

know I mean I’m doing my first shows

56:14

this weekend in Houston I don’t know

56:15

what the [ __ ] gonna happen I don’t

56:17

know if I know how to do it anymore

56:18

that’s gonna be very strange like you

56:23

couldn’t go more into the belly of the

56:24

beast like right juicy yeah like it’s

56:26

like being on the surface of being like

56:28

it’s off your charts with this thing

56:29

yeah I’m gonna go on stage with two

56:30

bottles of Lysol and just you know girls

56:33

do that thing when they spray perfume

56:34

and they walk through it I do that with

56:37

Lysol on stage I mean I think it’s

56:42

really critical to strengthen your

56:44

immune system and I do a lot of things

56:45

to do that and I think that’s something

56:47

that people need to really concentrate

56:48

on and I really wish that our elected

56:50

officials were talking more about that

56:52

and having speeches with doctors and

56:55

doing the office you never shall Obama

56:58

tried to do like try to put kale in

57:01

something and everybody was like what

57:02

I’m sorry go back to tater tots

57:08

yeah I mean just the science on vitamin

57:12

supplementation and how critical it is

57:14

for your immune system particularly

57:15

vitamin D that is that could literally

57:17

save lives and that knowledge is not

57:20

secret that knowledge is out there you

57:22

did those those episodes on the game

57:24

changers the James was and that was it

57:28

was fascinating it was because I watched

57:30

that movie and you know nutrition is

57:33

also like diet is such an important part

57:35

of what we do to ourselves that we that

57:38

we don’t think and especially in a time

57:39

of kovat where so many people like to

57:43

say like when you see what this does the

57:45

people with type 1 diabetes are four

57:47

with other kinds of you know conditions

57:51

that might be caused from either poor

57:53

diet or lack of access to know healthier

57:56

options and things like that you realize

57:58

like [ __ ] we put ourselves in a very

58:01

vulnerable position

58:02

yeah very vulnerable yeah we Andrew

58:05

Schultz had a really good point he said

58:07

this this pandemic highlighted the

58:10

vulnerabilities both in our economic

58:11

system and in our health system like the

58:15

way we are as human beings the what

58:17

who’s vulnerable the obese people people

58:20

with diabetes older folks I mean it

58:22

highlights all these issues where you

58:25

know we we really need to concentrate on

58:28

for the future if you want more people

58:29

to survive this there is there are

58:32

strategies that can be implemented and

58:34

we really we really need to talk to

58:36

people about just being normal stuff

58:38

being D hiding well hydrated making sure

58:41

you’re not dehydrated well rested teach

58:44

people meditation techniques is not hard

58:46

to learn some breathing exercises that

58:48

have been actually proven to increase

58:51

your immune function it’s not hard to

58:53

teach people about vitamin D and

58:55

supplementing it if you can’t go outside

58:56

so how do you get people then to take

58:59

action because here’s the other thing

59:01

you remember like those lives are hard

59:02

yeah you’re dealing when you’re talking

59:04

about like we talked about earlier like

59:06

economic inequality you know it’s hard

59:10

to go into an area where they feel like

59:12

[ __ ] I don’t know where my next meal is

59:13

coming from and be like so here’s what

59:16

we’re gonna do we’re just gonna sit and

59:17

breathe quiet these five minutes and I

59:19

know

59:20

it’s a really difficult it’s like

59:23

hierarchy of needs you know yeah how do

59:26

you how do you work into the idea that

59:30

those types of theories are actually

59:33

important to the betterment of like and

59:36

the stability of the larger part of

59:38

their life when they’re fighting so hard

59:40

just to stay afloat yeah it’s a that’s

59:43

an interesting point and I think what

59:46

you have to do is it has to be first of

59:48

all told by people who are doing it

59:51

successfully so people that are doing it

59:54

that like maybe were struggling with

59:55

their immune system and turned it around

59:58

and got healthier like those people are

60:00

the ones that the people that are in a

60:01

bad position right now they really

60:03

respond to when it comes to you live

60:05

there’s an emotional connection with if

60:07

you see some guide is in the cover of

60:08

Men’s Health magazine he’s ripped and he

60:10

starts talking about fitness you like

60:11

get the [ __ ] out of here I can’t relate

60:13

to you I’m never gonna look like that

60:14

but if you see someone who is in the

60:16

situation that you’re in currently and

60:19

they turned it around

60:21

well that me but listen I’ve been

60:24

working out my whole life I’ve never

60:25

stopped okay but if someone is fat I’m

60:29

talking from their perspective and they

60:30

see some guy who’s really thin and

60:33

chiseled then it’s not going to make

60:34

sense to them that they could ever be

60:36

like that but if they see someone

60:38

there’s a lot of really fantastic photos

60:40

and and and Instagram and Facebook pages

60:43

online where you can get inspiration

60:45

from someone who actually stuck to a

60:47

diet actually stuck to an exercise

60:49

routine and then speaks really well

60:51

about how much it improved the way they

60:54

feel their emotions their depression all

60:56

the aspects of their life and that’s I

60:58

think one of the more like David Goggins

61:00

is a great example that I use him all

61:02

the time because he’s this incredibly

61:04

inspirational guy who was a Navy SEAL

61:07

and at one point in time he’s 300 pounds

61:09

he was drinking milkshakes and he puts

61:10

those pictures of himself on Instagram

61:12

all the time just to let people know hey

61:15

I’m not some alien I’m a person who was

61:18

weak just like you I was lazy I got fat

61:21

and then I figured out how to train my

61:23

mind to be disciplined and I’d figured

61:25

out how to be happier and I think that

61:27

that’s really important for people to

61:29

see that it’s we’re not in a static

61:31

State we’re all in a constant state of

61:34

him

61:34

provement and growth hopefully or

61:35

deterioration if you’re not careful but

61:38

does that you know the thing that I

61:40

worry about those sometimes is similarly

61:43

to economic distress does it make a

61:47

person’s health

61:49

be a function of their virtue does it

61:52

does it take something that is beyond a

61:54

lot of people’s control that isn’t that

61:57

a little bit of like a matter if you

61:59

just pull your pants up you could do it

62:02

like no it’s not it’s known it is the

62:04

way I know what you’re saying but it’s

62:06

not it’s I did this and I can show you

62:09

how I did it and maybe you can do it too

62:11

that’s what it is we don’t have to look

62:12

at every success is somehow or another

62:14

thumbing in the face of people who can’t

62:16

achieve a similar goal but there are

62:20

enough people out there that can that we

62:23

should concentrate on that because I

62:24

think it’ll have a significant

62:25

improvement on the overall health of us

62:27

again as a community and I think this is

62:30

really how we have to look at the United

62:33

States and human beings on earth in

62:35

general we have to look at each other as

62:37

a bunch of people that could very well

62:39

be neighbors we’re community and if

62:41

you’re my friend and you were fat and

62:43

you were willing to listen and I used to

62:46

be fat too and I can tell you hey man

62:48

this is what I did I stopped drinking

62:50

soda was there are people that are I

62:53

mean I understand the point there and

62:56

I’m okay I’m an advocate for plant-based

62:58

stuff I think that’s it’s a healthy way

63:00

to do it

63:01

but obviously eating is such a personal

63:03

experience that I hesitate to ever

63:05

impart that in any other way but I just

63:10

feel like sometimes for people it’s

63:15

almost more debilitating for that

63:18

mentality of this is how you doing just

63:21

gotta get your [ __ ] together and go

63:23

through this way I do think you have to

63:25

present more options but know that it’s

63:28

maybe more complicated and people can be

63:31

overweight or whatever and be healthy

63:33

it’s not necessarily you know something

63:38

that’s corrosive to them but well it is

63:40

though being overweight is necessarily

63:43

corrosive it’s not healthy for anybody

63:44

it’s less healthy

63:47

and being at an optimal weight that’s

63:50

what’s important it gives you some sort

63:52

of a burden

63:53

whether that burden is sustainable is

63:55

debatable maybe for some people it is

63:57

for some people it isn’t look some

63:58

people can smoke until they’re 90 and

64:00

they’re fine

64:01

other people pancreatic cancer like

64:03

Hicks and died in their 30s it it

64:06

depends

64:07

wildly on the person but the idea that

64:10

you can be fat and you can be healthy I

64:12

think is a dangerous narrative because

64:14

you’re telling people listen don’t

64:16

improve you don’t have to you can be

64:19

healthy and be obese at the same time

64:21

but the medical science does not really

64:24

support that the more weight you lose up

64:28

to a certain point you know but when you

64:30

if you get to a healthy body mass your

64:32

body works better it’s really simple it

64:34

doesn’t tax your immune system as much

64:36

doesn’t tax your heart as much it’s

64:38

better for you it’s better for your

64:40

joints it doesn’t mean that we should

64:44

ignore people that are overweight and

64:46

you know and pretend that you know that

64:49

they’re they’re not worthy or they’re

64:51

not they’re not good folks I have a very

64:55

emotional because I feel protective

64:58

you’re nice over people and I I just

65:01

yeah I think you sweetheart it’s great

65:04

that’s a good thing no it is it’s the

65:07

the reason why you’re thinking like this

65:09

because we’re talking right we’re

65:12

talking about people doing well and you

65:13

like [ __ ] what about the people can’t do

65:15

well let’s reach out to them and offer

65:17

them an olive branch and yeah I get it

65:18

man I guess you’re right you’re right

65:20

look I have very good friends that are

65:22

morbidly obese and they don’t want to

65:24

listen and there’s nothing I can do I

65:26

just hug them when I see them and you

65:27

know I hope that one day they come to

65:29

grips with it and they change but they

65:31

don’t have to you know you you live this

65:33

life for a certain amount of time and if

65:35

you want to live it eating cake and

65:36

drinking beer that’s you you do whatever

65:39

you want we’re all on the end in the end

65:41

we’re all gonna be in the ground it’s

65:42

all pointless conversation sort out

65:50

optimistically take in this country and

65:52

turning it around and a very fatalistic

65:55

officer

65:56

well that’s true the end in the end

65:57

we’re all dying

65:58

that’s how that story ends we’re all

66:00

dead so the the story with what I don’t

66:04

want people to do is suffer and I want

66:05

people to feel better while they’re

66:06

alive and I think that’s something

66:08

that’s missed in the message of health

66:10

improvement like you will actually have

66:12

a better experience on earth and it’ll

66:15

help you mitigate stress it’ll help you

66:17

it’ll help you have better relationships

66:19

because you won’t be burdened down with

66:21

a lot of like anxiety and stress that

66:23

literally comes from a physical release

66:25

of energy I look at the body like a

66:27

battery and I think that some people’s

66:29

batteries just overflowing with

66:31

corrosive material because they never

66:33

exert it

66:34

they never blow it out a battery a

66:35

battery is a bad analogy but there’s

66:37

there’s a certain amount of physical

66:39

requirement I think your body has to has

66:42

and if you don’t give that that body

66:44

that physical exertion it doesn’t feel

66:46

good we’re we’ve evolved to hunt and

66:49

gather and build homes and survive from

66:52

predators and we carry around all the

66:54

burdens in our body of this past and

66:57

there’s no getting around that and you

66:59

could either deny it and just deal with

67:01

all the tension or you can exert your

67:03

energy find some way to calm your mind

67:06

and live a life that’s better let me ask

67:10

you a question egg because now this is

67:11

I’m wondering because you’re talking

67:14

about sort of evolving to a place where

67:17

your body and like when you had James on

67:19

and he was talking about babies do you

67:23

have moral qualms about meat or do you

67:26

not like you said well you know we’re

67:28

hunters and and that like is that ever

67:30

an issue for you or is it purely a

67:32

health issue or there’s both things

67:35

there’s a health issue there is a moral

67:37

qualms with factory farming there’s not

67:39

a moral qualms qualms with health with

67:41

hunting because I I know the reality of

67:43

the life of a deer if you don’t kill

67:46

that deer it’s gonna die a horrible

67:48

death from a wolf or a coyote or a

67:50

mountain lion or whatever the [ __ ] gets

67:52

ahold of it

67:53

it’s got Ruiz to death it’s going you

67:55

can either die quickly by the hand of a

67:57

person you respect that life and it’ll

67:59

nurture your body and the bodies of your

68:01

family our problem is a disconnection

68:03

more than anything and let me tell you

68:05

something when the kovat lockdown

68:06

happened I got more requests from

68:08

friends and more requests for

68:09

information about hunting and gun

68:11

ownership how do I

68:12

protect myself and how do I feed myself

68:13

and how do I grow food those were three

68:15

really big questions that I kept getting

68:17

from people it’s fine I have such a

68:19

different perspective on it in terms of

68:22

just the the relationship between myself

68:28

and I didn’t house a big meat-eater was

68:30

a big like deli guy pastrami and corned

68:32

beef and all that my wife got into

68:35

rescue and these types of things and we

68:37

ended over the farm with pigs and goats

68:40

and sheep and things like that and it

68:44

became untenable for me to make that

68:47

decision you know that that sort of that

68:50

decision of I think you’ll be better off

68:53

if I kill you and then it became it was

68:58

something I could no longer manage once

69:01

I knew the process of it and that it was

69:05

a hard it’s been a very hard process for

69:09

me it’s only been about four or five

69:10

years how was your health I mean I’m an

69:14

old Jew so baseline pretty much we don’t

69:20

age well to begin with how old do you

69:23

know John we age a bit like avocados

69:25

when you leave them out

69:26

yeah I’m 57 I’m 52 so or in similar

69:32

boats similar boat you know but I mean

69:36

it’s hard to know I feel good you know

69:39

if you look at markers like cholesterol

69:41

or blood pressure those things it’s

69:44

better but like you say I don’t I don’t

69:48

know enough about how the body processes

69:52

to know if I’m I feel better the numbers

69:56

say I’m better but you know genetics I’m

70:00

sure plays a part in it as well but the

70:03

funny thing is like I don’t even think

70:06

about it anymore

70:06

like it just don’t even think about it

70:08

anymore well let’s get into a custom and

70:12

once your gut biome changes you know you

70:14

really get accustomed to whatever you’re

70:16

eating good or bad unfortunately and

70:18

that’s one of the reasons why people

70:19

have such a hard time quitting sugar and

70:20

bread and pasta and things along those

70:22

lines so your body just craves it that’s

70:24

what it wants we start eating healthier

70:26

food your body does great that can go

70:28

off of meat and still be incredibly

70:30

unhealthy like you know you can be vegan

70:32

and just exist on Lay’s potato chips

70:35

yeah and so it is you know and it’s a

70:38

tougher Road and the world is certainly

70:41

not it’s not built for that and it

70:44

certainly feels a little bit of a

70:49

narrower lane that you have to do and I

70:52

also think it’s an incredibly emotional

70:54

topic yeah like very little that’s as

70:56

emotional and personal as what people

71:00

put in their bodies and how they eat and

71:01

what they do and I’m always very

71:03

respectful because I also I got no leg

71:05

to stand on man I like this is what I’m

71:07

doing it feels better for me but I I

71:11

always say like but it’s such a personal

71:16

and individual choice than you

71:18

everybody’s got to do for themselves

71:20

the only thing I would say is like I do

71:22

think it’s important for people to get

71:24

educated on it to read up on like you

71:27

say factory farming well what might be

71:30

the you know nutritional boss of it or

71:33

what are some of the things that are in

71:35

it or what maybe is it going to do to

71:37

our community when you know we use so

71:40

many antibiotics mm-hmm and the meat

71:42

production ah you know that’s the only

71:45

thing I say is like try and educate

71:47

yourself to how your meal gets to your

71:50

table that’s why I’m a huge advocate for

71:53

like local farming and agriculture

71:55

because those are the people they’re

71:57

just growing their food and they’re

71:58

bringing it to your table I find that

72:00

incredible but but I also don’t I try

72:04

not to take a position of judgment on

72:07

people because I feel like that’s unfair

72:09

but I think that’s very wise of you and

72:11

I think that there’s a lot of people

72:13

that share your position on animal death

72:15

and I think that’s one of the more

72:16

promising aspects of laboratory created

72:18

meat as long as it can be done in a way

72:19

that’s actually going to be healthy for

72:21

us it seems like there’s some real

72:23

science behind that and they’re very

72:25

very close to releasing that a large

72:27

scale so it would be actual meat that

72:29

doesn’t come with death which is really

72:31

fascinating oh really yeah yeah you’re

72:34

talking about like the the the one that

72:36

they had I saw like it’s a tank

72:37

and he pulls out it’s like $20,000 for a

72:40

chicken breast they did that yeah it was

72:42

really expensive at one point in time

72:44

but they’ve gotten it down to a burger

72:46

now like they can actually make a burger

72:48

out of this stuff and they feel like as

72:51

this if this technology improves they

72:53

essentially flesh when it’s not a would

72:57

you if you could if you could still have

73:00

the the part of me that you like but it

73:03

came without death do you think you

73:05

would make that switch or is that

73:06

something that well I certainly would

73:08

with domestic animals the the difference

73:10

between that and hunting there’s there’s

73:12

a conservation aspect of it one thing

73:15

that leads to protection of wildlife

73:18

habitat is actually the money that comes

73:20

from hunting tags and hunting equipment

73:23

there’s that there’s also the the type

73:28

of relationship you have with your food

73:31

when you actually work very hard and

73:34

hunt it and kill it is very different

73:36

than buying food from a store and I

73:40

would say similar in a similar way

73:42

growing food when you go to Whole Foods

73:45

sometimes you really got to stop that

73:47

you know there’s there’s a lot that goes

73:48

into the trip the whole yeah it’s a good

73:52

parking spot that’s right yeah I get it

73:55

growing your own food in your backyard

73:57

is very satisfying to and I would say to

74:00

people like that’s a microcosm I guess

74:03

it’s a very micro form of what it feels

74:05

like to hunt an animal and then eat it

74:07

and feed your family for you know if I

74:08

shoot an elk I eat it literally for a

74:11

year so one animal death equals like a

74:14

year of my meals and you know there’s

74:19

also the moral high-ground position you

74:21

know I think a lot of people love to

74:24

look at the moral high ground of eating

74:27

vegetables and only eating vegetables as

74:29

being a superior way to live their life

74:31

and that’s that’s a good decision I

74:33

understand where you’re coming from I

74:35

understand that there’s people that look

74:37

at life very differently than me they

74:40

maybe don’t have the sort of fatalistic

74:42

perspective even though it’s respectful

74:44

I have a very fatalistic perspective

74:46

when it comes to just all organic

74:48

organisms competing

74:50

for resources and for life these animals

74:54

I mean I’ve run into them when they’ve

74:55

killed each other I’ve seen animals that

74:57

have been taken out by other animals

74:59

I’ve come across their bodies torn apart

75:00

by wolves in in the woods it’s a wild

75:03

wild thing out there man and I think

75:05

we’re so insulated by it in the in our

75:08

culture of today that it’s one of the

75:10

reasons why veganism and all these

75:11

things are becoming so attractive I

75:13

would hope that along with that we’re

75:15

gonna be nicer to each other that we’re

75:17

gonna be we’re gonna grow to be a kinder

75:19

human race I really I really hope you

75:21

that yeah because I think it’s about

75:24

consideration you know for me I think

75:26

was there was a certain part of

75:28

consciousness that I never ascribed to

75:31

animals to some extent I mean it’s funny

75:33

because I always thought of myself as oh

75:34

I you know I love animals I you know

75:36

always had dogs and cats you know you’d

75:38

find a bird with a broken wing just

75:39

thinking the boss and two weeks later he

75:41

flies away and you’re a girl but I never

75:44

really ascribed like individuality to

75:46

them and I think backwards the change

75:48

for me was interacting in in an

75:53

individual way when I get firm on the

75:56

font yeah you know I always tell my

75:59

brother once once we named them that’s

76:01

five yeah you watch them like their

76:04

plate though they’ll play or they and it

76:06

just changed my relationship to what I

76:12

wanted it to be with animals and it just

76:16

made it untenable in that moment for me

76:19

but I truly understand like that that is

76:23

in a really individualized personalized

76:28

experience that that that I made and

76:32

like I said I would love it for people

76:34

to make that connection because I think

76:36

it’s profound there is there is

76:38

something about that connection for

76:39

people that when they do see it you know

76:41

it’s funny I’ll talk about the pigs and

76:44

they’ll be like what you know they’re

76:48

they just eat everything you’re like no

76:49

they’re really playful they’re smart

76:51

don’t go nuts you do belly rubs yeah

76:54

it’s it’s but that was shocking I didn’t

76:56

know that they’d stop oh it’s like a

76:59

blob but beings

77:02

we’re talking about nature John and

77:04

there’s nothing natural about a farm

77:06

that’s part of the problem I mean it’s

77:07

all it’s an animal prison and they’re

77:09

domesticated because we give them food

77:11

and we kind of remove the the natural

77:13

fear that they would have of any you

77:15

know eyeball facing forward predator

77:18

which is what we are you know what their

77:21

health like what having our farm with

77:25

sheep and goats and pigs and they’re all

77:27

rescues is like having a nursing home

77:30

like you can’t believe the fragility of

77:34

factory farmed animals like they are to

77:38

be sick like pneumonia like genetically

77:43

the design to gain too much weight for

77:46

their legs it really is you know the

77:50

island of misfit took like they’ve

77:51

genetically modified or done whatever

77:53

they’ve done and and the health of these

77:57

animals that are in our food supply yeah

78:00

that our mainstay of our food supply is

78:02

really suspect

78:04

yeah that’s why nursing them yeah that’s

78:07

why I prefer hunting the when if you’re

78:09

eating an animal that’s a wild animal

78:12

you’re eating an athlete I mean they’re

78:14

they’re sinewy and thick and they’re

78:16

strong and they survived and there’s so

78:19

much more nutrient-dense

78:21

when you’re when you’re talking about

78:23

factory farmed animals you’re talking

78:24

about I mean well factory fired animals

78:26

is the worst version of what human

78:29

beings are capable of they were capable

78:30

of ignoring suffering to the point we

78:32

lock them all in warehouses they’re

78:34

pissed goes down in a tunnel and fills a

78:36

small lake up and they’ve flown over

78:38

these places with drones it’s horrific

78:39

right the pig farms in particularly

78:41

they’re horrific but when you’re talking

78:44

about what you’re doing on your farm

78:47

like of course you can’t eat those

78:48

things they’re your pets that would be I

78:50

mean you’re naming them and flying them

78:52

and touching them but I extrapolate that

78:55

now so my I think what happened was I

78:57

went all right that’s in the same way

79:00

that like I love my dog but if you have

79:03

a dog I wouldn’t kill your dog running

79:06

eat because I look at dogs now in a

79:09

different way so I think I extrapolate

79:10

to the

79:13

animal kingdom in a way that different I

79:15

had it I feel like because of my wife

79:17

and she’s been she’s a much kinder

79:20

smarter version of me so because of her

79:26

kind of showing me that relationship and

79:28

experiencing myself like it’s just

79:30

changed the way that I view it and

79:33

that’s been and it kind of takes us back

79:35

around to the earlier part of the

79:37

conversation because when you think

79:38

about animal agriculture and you talk

79:39

about those hog farms where are they

79:41

located they’re located in the poorest

79:43

neighborhoods right they locate any

79:46

environmental damage that they do is

79:48

also damage that’s done to poor rural

79:52

communities that live around them now

79:55

I’m not suggesting that there’s not

79:56

economic there’s an economic incentive

79:59

and an industry around it and certainly

80:02

not you know you don’t just end

80:04

industries but reform again like it it

80:10

certainly Georgia P Bush said this he

80:14

was talking about Donald Trump because

80:15

I’m gonna support Donald Trump because

80:18

Donald Trump is the only thing standing

80:20

between America and socialism and I was

80:24

like the only thing standing between

80:26

American socialism is an inability to

80:29

meaningfully reform capitalism and it’s

80:32

more damaging effects and if we can’t do

80:35

that then the people take to the streets

80:38

I think reform like Bernie was talking

80:43

about those other guys that will save

80:45

capitalism that will save democracy by

80:48

showing that we recognize that there is

80:51

collateral damage to the systems that we

80:54

use to gain wealth and to gain power and

80:57

if we can reform those systems

81:00

meaningfully for the people who suffer

81:03

most terribly under them we save it but

81:08

if we can the best deal gets stormed

81:11

like that’s just what Kennedy say if you

81:13

make peaceful evolution impossible you

81:15

make violent revolution inevitable yeah

81:17

so we I think at some point we have to

81:20

demonstrate the

81:21

we’ll and the stamina to be able to

81:24

attack these problems and that’s why I’m

81:26

holding Joe Rogan ah yeah no I think

81:31

everyone agrees but everyone feels like

81:33

their hands are tied and again I think

81:35

that’s one of the reasons why these

81:37

protests and just this this whole

81:39

explosion after George Floyd has been so

81:43

transformative I think because people

81:45

recognize like this is a real moment of

81:47

change and of course opportunists and

81:49

looters and all kinds of other crazy

81:50

[ __ ] happened along the way but it’s it

81:53

speaks to the fact that there’s so many

81:55

people in street it’s beats it speaks to

81:57

this this like we can actually do

81:59

something now we’ve got momentum let’s

82:01

keep it moving

82:02

are you hopeful yes I’m always hopeful

82:04

I’m very optimistic even though I have a

82:06

fatalistic perspective exact same

82:10

in these terrible times how do you

82:12

remain Oakland I’m like because better

82:15

people outnumber shitty people yes a

82:17

long shot they dish that’s just the

82:20

truth there was some time powerless

82:23

sometimes we may act out of fear or

82:26

resource part whatever that is good

82:28

better people outnumber shady people by

82:31

launch and we’re in an adolescent stage

82:34

of our evolution of as a civilization

82:37

it’s growing and changing there’s never

82:39

been a civilization like us today and

82:41

we’re growing and changing to try to

82:44

suit our real sensibilities and to try

82:47

to to try to get better at this [ __ ]

82:49

thing and not just accept this old crazy

82:52

corrupt structure that’s existed forever

82:55

thank you yeah you put a little fire in

82:58

my belly like this like I really enjoyed

83:03

I’ve really enjoyed the conversation

83:05

this is man I always enjoy talking to

83:07

you I appreciate you very much and I

83:09

don’t get to see you enough all right my

83:11

friend and hopefully when this all ends

83:14

everybody can gather again at the you

83:16

know at the store and had do a good set

83:19

and talk some shared with each other and

83:20

have some fun let’s do it brother

83:22

take care my friend and good luck with

83:23

your film irresistible it’s out when now

83:28

tomorrow tomorrow please jump

83:33

thank you my brother thank you sir bye

83:34

[Applause]

83:38

[Music]

83:39

[Applause]

83:44

[Music]

English (auto-generated)