openpolitics.com

One-State Solution with Jeff Halper & Update From Bethlehem w/ Yumna Patel

19:53
you know israel is uh israel uh
19:57
you know look israel stuck it’s it’s
19:59
stuck and it isn’t stuck in the sense
20:01
uh it’s stuck in that there is no
20:03
political
20:05
solution i mean what yumna and the
20:07
palestinians talk about liberation
20:09
is obviously unacceptable to zionism
20:12
and to and to israel israel has the
20:16
opposite
20:16
point of view and that is of course that
20:19
because zionism we have to understand
20:21
this is really important for everything
20:22
to understand what’s happening
20:24
yesterday um is that zionism was a
20:27
settler colonial movement
20:30
you know this isn’t the conflict when
20:32
you talk about we always talk about the
20:34
israeli palestinian conflict
20:36
with the israeli every it’s not a
20:37
conflict conflict has two sides
20:40
and they’re roughly symmetrical when
20:42
they fight with each other and the way
20:43
you get out of a conflict is you
20:45
compromise
20:46
and negotiate and you find some kind of
20:48
of a peace
20:50
but settler colonialism like zionism is
20:54
uh is unilateral there are there are no
20:57
natives there are no palestinians they
20:59
have no rights
21:00
israel until today has never recognized
21:03
the existence of the palestinian people
21:05
let alone their national rights
21:06
and the whole point of zionism the whole
21:09
point of the last 125 years
21:11
has been to judaize palestine
21:14
in other words to transform an arab
21:17
country into a jewish country
21:19
transform palestine into the land of
21:21
israel and that’s
21:22
that’s that goes all the way through so
21:24
there is no political process
21:27
there’s no uh you know when people are
21:29
saying okay now what
21:31
you know with the ceasefire can we now
21:33
renew negotiations what about the true
21:35
state idea where does biden come in
21:37
all that you know israel is has no
21:39
interest in any of that
21:41
so what is what’s israel’s plan israel’s
21:44
plan
21:45
is a low-intensity conflict
21:48
low-intensity warfare in other words the
21:51
idea being
21:52
already sorry one second can you i think
21:54
you’re touching the la
21:55
your laptop or something i just want to
21:57
make the sound as good as possible
21:58
okay keep going you’re jewish so you
22:01
move your hands it’s not your fault okay
22:03
just one more sentence simply the idea
22:06
that we can manage the palestinians
22:08
that they’re manageable you know the
22:10
conflict can be at a low
22:12
at a very low level that really doesn’t
22:14
affect israelis
22:16
personal security uh and once in a while
22:18
there’ll be a flare-up
22:20
like in gaza okay but but that that’s
22:23
tolerable i mean israel lost
22:25
the palestinians lost 260 people
22:27
something like that
22:28
the israeli side lost 10 which is
22:31
completely acceptable
22:33
if you want to put it in that in that
22:34
sense for israelis
22:36
and so they have no motivation to get
22:38
into political negotiations there’s no
22:40
international pressure for political
22:41
negotiations
22:43
and it can’t get into political
22:44
negotiations because it wants the entire
22:47
country it has nothing to negotiate
22:49
and that’s the situation that we all
22:51
have to begin to deal with i think
22:54
and so what is okay uh you know anything
22:57
you want to add on that by the way
22:58
sorry no i mean i’ve just been nodding
23:01
my head the whole time because i
23:03
i mean first of all it’s interesting to
23:04
me to see um
23:06
you know the perspectives from someone
23:08
inside israel but yeah
23:10
everything that that jeff has said is
23:13
completely
23:14
completely true and is something that
23:15
people need to to keep in mind when
23:18
when framing what’s happening and when
23:20
when approaching the the situation
23:22
here yeah um yeah i mean
23:25
it’s it’s interesting that what you said
23:26
jeff where it’s like
23:28
and let me i’m sorry i cut you off right
23:30
as you were rounding up your fin you’re
23:32
like your final point so you want can
23:33
you say that again since i cut it off to
23:35
try to get the sound better were you
23:36
basically saying
23:37
um they want to manage them can you just
23:39
say that again
23:41
yeah that israel israel’s strategy is
23:45
to manage the palestinians in other
23:46
words to keep
23:49
the conflict if you want to say a
23:50
conflict
23:52
under the radar the deal i think between
23:55
israel and europe and the west and
23:57
the international community is that
24:01
as long as israel keeps the lid on as
24:04
long as it doesn’t disrupt the region
24:07
as long as it doesn’t lead to wars all
24:08
the time as long as it keeps things more
24:10
or less manageable
24:13
it’s fine in other words biden or the
24:16
europeans or
24:17
nobody wants to expend the political
24:20
capital
24:21
they would have to expend in order to
24:23
really force israel
24:25
back and i mean the whole idea of a
24:26
two-state solution is ridiculous
24:28
right it’s always been ridiculous
24:30
nobody’s gonna
24:31
expend that capital you see and israel
24:33
knows it and israel knows there’ll be no
24:35
sanctions it can violate human rights
24:38
and international law with impunity
24:40
because it knows there’s no sanctions
24:42
because the only
24:43
instrument of sanctions that the
24:44
international community has is a
24:46
security council
24:47
and the united states isn’t going to
24:48
allow that we saw that the united states
24:50
vetoed three
24:51
security council resolutions trying to
24:53
end this uh
24:54
thing this last week so israel’s in a
24:57
kind of a safe zone
24:58
it can do anything it wants to to the
25:01
palestinians basically
25:03
and continuous its process as long as
25:07
again it keeps it manageable it isn’t to
25:09
doesn’t appear too oppressive
25:11
that’s where it crossed the line last
25:13
week that it didn’t mean to cross
25:15
i don’t think israel anticipated the
25:17
hamas attack
25:19
so that was that was a miscalculation it
25:22
crossed that line but usually
25:24
it stops before that line so it keeps
25:26
everything kind of simmering
25:28
at an acceptable level so the
25:30
international community doesn’t feel
25:31
that it has to
25:32
intervene right and so the acceptable
25:35
level is your more kind of mundane
25:38
violence that is standard
25:41
um in other words just so people know
25:43
and i’m i’m i’m sure that people
25:44
watching this stream know but it’s not
25:46
jeff isn’t saying like there isn’t
25:48
violence and it’s
25:49
everything is like you know tutti frutti
25:51
or whatever uh
25:52
everything is cool until these things
25:55
happen it’s like there’s constant
25:56
consistent
25:57
violence and then it just becomes
25:59
newsworthy
26:01
international newsworthy violence of
26:02
course it’s always
26:04
should be international newsworthy
26:05
violence but it’s you know chomsky talks
26:07
about it yes but
26:08
worthy but as long as israel keeps it
26:12
within the framework of
26:13
terrorism right in other words israel
26:16
has criminalized palestinian resistance
26:20
you know so that it’s no law it’s not a
26:21
resistance it’s not a liberation
26:23
movement
26:24
right as luna calls it which it is it’s
26:26
not a liberation movement
26:28
it’s a uh you know because what settler
26:32
colonialism does
26:33
people i i just wrote a book by the way
26:35
if i want to yes which i am israel
26:38
liberating palestine
26:40
where i really get it because settler
26:41
colonialism is a very powerful analysis
26:45
that’s in the academic community but it
26:48
hasn’t quite yet gotten
26:49
out to the wider public because it
26:51
sounds very academic right it is
26:52
epidemic
26:53
yeah basically what settler colonialism
26:56
says
26:57
is that um uh is that
27:00
uh you know again it’s it’s a zero sum
27:04
it’s a zero zero-sum sort of a sort of a
27:06
thing so that
27:07
um the uh
27:11
you know it’s not a conflict and that’s
27:13
where really going back to what i was
27:15
talking about before
27:16
if you understand the settler colonial
27:18
idea you’ll understand
27:20
that that it’s its goal is not only to
27:23
judaize
27:24
and and make this country jewish
27:27
but that be perceived as jewish you see
27:30
so when you’re sitting in new york
27:32
or london or wherever you are and you
27:34
think of israel
27:35
when you think of this part of the world
27:37
you think of israel and israel is jewish
27:40
and now we’re just in the eurovision
27:42
phone
27:43
eurovision song contest you see so
27:47
israel
27:47
is i mean israel is in the eurovision
27:49
song contest not palestine
27:51
oh yeah right see so that you begin to
27:53
normalize things
27:54
and then when you have palestinian
27:56
resistance there’s no context
27:59
because there’s no there’s no politic
28:01
you’ve de-politicized you see
28:03
so palestinian resistance comes out as
28:06
violence
28:08
see hamas throwing rocks israel has a
28:10
right to defend itself
28:11
that makes sense if you have no
28:14
political context
28:16
if israel’s a normal country of israel’s
28:18
nebraska
28:20
we’re all hanging around in omaha having
28:22
a cup of coffee and all of a sudden
28:23
people from kansas start throwing
28:25
rockets at us
28:26
you’re right that’s you know it’s crazy
28:29
it’s it’s just
28:30
violence out of nowhere but if you have
28:33
this political perspective that yuma
28:35
certainly is trying in and palestinians
28:37
are trying and i’m trying to introduce
28:40
that goes back to the idea of celebr why
28:42
center colonialism because
28:44
that tells you the logic of what’s
28:46
happening
28:47
unless you get the logic you can’t
28:49
understand each particular event
28:51
try to explain every event by itself
28:53
doesn’t make any sense to people
28:55
that’s that’s always been our problem
28:58
we’ve never given people a really good
29:00
coherent framework
29:02
on which they can begin to approach this
29:04
whole issue
29:05
and begin to understand the palestinian
29:07
logical resistance
29:09
but israel has done that very well you
29:11
see husba
29:13
which is propaganda is very good and
29:15
they prevent
29:16
present a very compelling you know
29:19
case that makes sense yeah
29:23
um and have your opinion
29:26
have your um i want to ask both of you
29:29
has your have your perspectives on this
29:31
changed
29:31
like recently um i know you’ve been
29:34
there jeff
29:35
since the for decades um
29:38
by the way jeff’s training is as an
29:40
anthropologist and i remember you saying
29:41
jeff when i first
29:42
when i interviewed you years and years
29:44
ago you wanted to go work somewhere as
29:46
an anthropologist but you didn’t want to
29:48
go
29:49
you kind of felt like israel as
29:51
problematic as it
29:52
was it was different you know it’s funny
29:55
i i should let you put explain it but
29:58
the way i
29:58
remember thinking of it when you told me
30:01
to me you were like i don’t want to go
30:02
to kenya
30:03
um and be like a white jewish guy in
30:05
kenya
30:06
um but if i israel i can be a jewish
30:09
white jewish guy in israel
30:11
and like you were at least potentially
30:14
infiltrating
30:15
that’s how i viewed it you probably what
30:17
i call myself in my book
30:18
is a settler who refuses okay yeah
30:22
and that’s that’s there’s a certain
30:25
status in there
30:26
it’s a political place a space that i
30:29
can begin to work out of with my
30:30
palestinian
30:32
colleagues that’s not a space i would
30:34
have had in kenya i would have been yeah
30:36
a settler for you know
30:39
with no context whatsoever right
30:43
um and and yoona you obviously are have
30:46
different identification and role but um
30:49
what did what made you want to go to
30:51
report in this region and has your view
30:54
changed
30:54
since being there yeah and i’d first
30:57
just like to comment on
30:58
what jeff just said and i think it’s a
31:00
huge issue at least with what i’ve been
31:02
seeing in
31:02
the discourse specifically maybe
31:04
surrounding certain israeli
31:06
like members of the israeli left or
31:09
people who consider themselves to be
31:11
you know liberal zionists even is that
31:15
people in those circles cannot come to
31:19
terms with zionism as a subtle or
31:22
colonial ideology and cannot come to the
31:24
terms
31:24
with themselves being settlers and
31:28
come to the terms with the fact that
31:30
they have also
31:32
um contributed in some way or they have
31:35
benefited from the system of oppression
31:37
that has
31:38
dispossessed and continued to dispossess
31:40
palestinians so
31:41
i just think it’s um really great that
31:44
you know jeff is you know taking that
31:47
position and acknowledging that and i
31:49
think that’s something that
31:50
if at least within um those certain
31:53
you know progressive or liberal circles
31:55
that that’s what needs to happen if we
31:57
want to move the needle forward but
31:58
anyways in in
32:00
response to what you were asking about
32:01
me i mean i was always interested in
32:03
palestine
32:04
since i was young i grew up in a muslim
32:06
household so it was interesting
32:07
sort of my journey to palestine i think
32:09
was a little different i always always
32:11
learned about palestine in jerusalem and
32:13
al-aqsa specifically just from a
32:15
religious perspective because
32:16
obviously it’s very important to muslims
32:18
it’s the third holiest site in islam
32:20
i have lots of palestinian friends
32:22
growing up so i knew what palestine
32:24
palestine was i knew that i cared about
32:26
it i knew
32:27
that what was that there were great
32:29
injustices that were happening in
32:30
palestine
32:31
but i only truly um sort of came to
32:34
terms with
32:35
first of all that i should care i
32:37
shouldn’t care about this
32:40
as a religious issue i should care about
32:41
this you know as a human rights issue
32:43
and as a political issue
32:44
um when i took my first trip to
32:46
palestine when i was in college and then
32:48
you know continued to come back here
32:49
subsequently after that
32:51
um and i think that
32:54
just speaks to kind of the current
32:56
moment that we’ve been seeing um
32:58
sort of with the censorship of of people
33:01
um who are speaking up about palestine
33:03
on social media
33:04
um censorship within the industry within
33:07
you know the journalism industry of
33:08
anyone who um
33:10
takes a stance on palestine is
33:13
is is suppressed to some degree in
33:15
another you you know you risk you
33:16
losing your job um and i think it’s
33:20
my journey to palestine is what also
33:22
journeyed um influenced my journey
33:25
in in journalism and into journalism and
33:28
um we were always taught you know in in
33:30
journalism school and
33:31
sort of within the industry of you know
33:33
you can never take a stance you can
33:35
never state your opinion you can never
33:36
sort of take a moral stance on an issue
33:38
because somehow
33:40
that um negatively affects
33:44
you know might negatively affect your
33:45
journalism but i think that
33:47
um in issues like this it’s you know
33:50
actually the opposite
33:51
um you know taking a stance on palestine
33:54
actually
33:55
um you know supporting you know
33:57
palestinian human rights and and the
33:59
palestinian freedom for liberation
34:01
um makes you can can make you a better
34:05
journalist and
34:06
and help you um look at everything you
34:10
know all different subjects not just
34:11
palestine with with a more critical lens
34:13
a more critical lens than one that we’re
34:16
taught to look at things with
34:20
did you guys see i don’t know if you saw
34:21
this but there was a something going
34:22
kind of viral
34:23
uh i’m looking for the actual tweet but
34:25
there is a
34:27
um uh cnn correspondent jerusalem
34:31
i guess cnn jerusalem based
34:33
correspondent um
34:34
posted hadas gold did you see this hold
34:37
on let me
34:38
um let me just share this uh
34:41
she share she tweeted this out um
34:44
her baby cousin going to the army yeah
34:46
so uh and i tweeted
34:48
the this should be your chiron but still
34:49
hear her here she is hadas gold
34:52
sienna’s jerusalem correspondent send me
34:53
tacos okay i don’t know how
34:55
they would last um depend it probably
34:58
wouldn’t even get through the uh
34:59
you know you couldn’t even send them
35:00
from gaza definitely could not send them
35:02
from gaza okay
35:03
so if you’re not in gaza send her tacos
35:06
um
35:07
and then she had tweeted my baby cousin
35:09
entered the israeli army today
35:11
and it has um a
35:15
it looks kind of like an elf i don’t
35:17
know how to describe it but uh it’s i
35:19
guess her baby cousin
35:20
in a in her all green outfit looking
35:22
kind of like a disney character
35:25
um and so there’s some pushback for that
35:28
for i mean kind of obvious reasons but
35:30
and then there was some push back to the
35:31
pushback because people were saying it
35:33
was
35:34
anti-semitic to uh and pushing the dual
35:37
loyalty
35:38
uh trope which i did see someone and
35:40
talk about in the chat so let’s let’s
35:41
not do the dual loyalty thing by the way
35:43
guys we can get to that in a second
35:45
um but the problem here is and it but
35:48
because
35:49
it does become complicated because like
35:52
service is compulsory right or you can
35:54
be refused that can go to jail which
35:56
like much praise to people do that but
35:59
the issue here is that like
36:00
kids did there you go so oh we’re gonna
36:03
have to we’re gonna have
36:04
but i don’t think you put it on a cake
36:06
right you didn’t give
36:08
or if you put them on cakes but like it
36:10
is it’s it’s i mean
36:12
the issue here is that she celebrated it
36:15
i think personally
36:17
um i’m actually not exactly sure how to
36:19
talk about it because as
36:20
adam johnson from the show pointed out
36:22
on twitter you know
36:24
his standard is like if people are you
36:27
kind of have to
36:28
look at people then from the u.s when
36:31
they have relatives
36:32
who are serving anyway that’s
36:35
that’s another kind of side issue but i
36:38
thought it was interesting but
36:40
um yeah you know yeah i think the
36:43
interesting thing also because we saw
36:45
with
36:45
you know ap violet firing
36:48
emily wilder right for her
36:52
involvement in sjp when or you know
36:55
tweeting about
36:57
things relating to palestine et cetera
36:59
when she was in college it’s like
37:01
um so many and we saw you know with
37:04
cnn’s firing of mark lamont hill and
37:05
reyes aslan and all these other people
37:07
who have spoken
37:08
up about palestine well it’s like
37:09
objectivity
37:11
or is is only an issue
37:14
um when it when it comes to palestine or
37:16
conflicts of interest
37:18
seem to only be an issue when it comes
37:20
to people speaking about palestine human
37:21
rights it’s not a conflict of interest
37:23
that cnn’s jerusalem correspondent is
37:26
celebrating the fact that
37:27
she has family members in the idf it’s
37:29
not a conflict of interest for the new
37:30
york times that all of their bureau
37:32
chiefs
37:33
live in a house of palestinians who were
37:36
live in the a stolen house of
37:38
palestinians who were kicked out during
37:39
the neckbah
37:40
right that’s not a conflict of interest
37:42
and that you know several
37:44
new york bureau chiefs or you know
37:45
correspondents in the region have
37:47
children in the israeli army like those
37:49
aren’t conflicts of interest but it’s
37:50
suddenly a conflict of interest when
37:52
someone
37:53
um has the audacity to speak up
37:56
for the basic human rights of
37:59
palestinians
38:00
and obviously we know that this double
38:01
standard exists everybody who’s been
38:03
talking about palestine anyone who’s
38:05
been somewhat involved in you know
38:08
the palestinian cause knows that knows
38:11
this as a fact
38:12
this has been a reality for so many
38:14
years but it’s just
38:16
it continued i mean i guess i
38:19
just because of how ridiculous it is i
38:21
guess they just dumbfounded every single
38:22
time
38:23
by the way to something yumna was
38:26
talking about before
38:28
on the israeli news uh
38:31
spokespeople for the israeli government
38:33
were very proud of the fact that yes
38:36
they turned to twitter and facebook
38:39
and instagram and other social media
38:42
to get pro or what they called it
38:45
anti-israeli propaganda
38:47
removed right so you know this isn’t
38:50
just something i mean yuma you
38:52
are sort of the victim of it and you
38:54
really didn’t know it was hap but in
38:55
fact i mean the israeli government says
38:57
this
38:57
yes we actually turned to these
39:00
companies
39:01
and they said twitter removed 89
39:04
of the content that israel asked them to
39:07
remove that had to do with palestine
39:09
89 and instagram 80 some percent
39:14
so that that’s it isn’t that there’s
39:16
algorithms out there
39:18
or there’s some whatever yeah what’s
39:20
happening is the israeli government is
39:22
in contact with
39:24
uh these companies that you know the two
39:26
people that are on the facebook
39:29
committee that decides on uh on what
39:32
should be up on facebook or not our
39:33
israelis
39:34
so that you know there’s a rare very
39:37
conscious
39:38
political tie between the israeli
39:41
government
39:42
and these companies okay
39:46
um i also wanted to ask you guys about
39:49
um
39:51
uh well jeff this is actually i can i
39:53
can ask just so you have a question i
39:54
would like
39:55
actually i’d like to ask both of you i i
39:57
you may find this silly
39:58
but the other day i made fun of deborah
40:00
messing um
40:02
because she posted some very stupid
40:04
tweets
40:05
but i actually think it would be a good
40:07
idea and
40:08
max blumenthal and i kind of had a
40:10
really and leslie lee had a lot of fun
40:13
uh like debunking some of her talk of
40:16
the talking points that she was
40:17
obviously spreading
40:18
but we didn’t but there’s actually i
40:19
think really serious things to get into
40:22
um really serious your talking points
40:24
that we should
40:25
get into um yeah
40:29
you guys would be willing to do that um
40:33
one second sorry where is this it’s by
40:36
this
40:36
stand what does it stand together some
40:39
organization that’s like
40:40
stand with us stand with us probably
40:43
that’s a very
40:44
yeah they’re very right-wing yeah
40:46
supported by the jewish establishment
40:48
right yeah so they’re really i mean
40:50
they’re really good at this stuff right
40:52
like god i hate
40:53
i hate that there’s stuff that makes me
40:55
sound like an anti-semite
40:57
but they are they’re good they’re this
40:58
has nothing to do with being jewish or
41:00
anything
41:00
this has to in fact you know you know
41:02
the person who really like woke me up to
41:04
the fact that jews are not responsible
41:05
for
41:06
israel which doesn’t mean we shouldn’t
41:07
be saying not in our name and stuff
41:09
because they obviously tried to
41:10
weaponize us but was ali abu nima he was
41:13
like jews are not
41:14
is israelis like right so um
41:18
yes so one second i’m just trying to
41:20
find while you’re looking at this client
41:21
another point of course yes uh because
41:24
we’re gonna
41:25
talk a little bit about the one state
41:26
idea and that is you know
41:29
and this is where i we have to go beyond
41:31
talking about liberation
41:32
liberation is important i mean the the
41:35
title of my book is liberating palestine
41:38
it is liberal but the question is what
41:39
do we mean by liberation right
41:41
and the palestinians have to define
41:45
in the end what the struggle is what
41:47
liberation means
41:49
and we have to follow the palestinians i
41:51
mean we
41:52
critical israelis and of course the
41:54
international community that can be
41:56
mobilized by them
41:57
and until today there isn’t a strong
42:01
coherent
42:02
voice about where are we going there’s
42:04
no leadership coming from the
42:06
palestinians
42:06
and that’s a problem so i’m involved
42:10
with a palestinian-led initiative that’s
42:12
just beginning to get off the ground
42:15
it’s called the one democratic state
42:17
campaign
42:18
and i tried to have a palestinian
42:20
counterpart on the show i just want
42:22
people to know
42:22
but he’s sick yeah right
42:26
i’m leveling uh centering come on i mean
42:30
that won’t be a problem they’ll be happy
42:31
they’re happy to come on but you can see
42:34
under my
42:34
name it’s a onestatecampaign.org is our
42:37
website
42:38
and one of the things we’ve done over
42:39
the last couple of years palestinians
42:41
and israelis together
42:43
is to really formulate a very detailed
42:46
and i think a very solid
42:48
10-point political program now whether
42:51
this is the political program or not
42:53
that’s i mean i’m not trying to say that
42:55
this is the solution
42:56
but what i’m trying to say is that this
42:58
has to be done this work has to be done
43:01
there has to be political work led by
43:03
palestinians
43:04
to define what is our political program
43:07
because without a political program
43:09
without an end game
43:10
right everybody’s left hanging we can’t
43:14
represent palestinians
43:16
now i can’t tell them one state two
43:18
states ten states do this do that it’s
43:20
not my role and certainly not your role
43:22
katie
43:23
in new york we can support the
43:24
palestinians but they have to be the
43:27
ones to lead
43:28
and this is an attempt to try to begin
43:31
to begin that process
43:32
so beyond resistance i mean you know
43:36
it’s a mixed bag because you one of the
43:38
famous slogans coming out of palestine
43:40
you see it on the wall
43:41
all over is is to exist is to resist
43:45
which is a nice idea but you then you
43:47
begin to say wait a minute is that it
43:50
yeah what about what’s beyond resistance
43:52
what are we resisting
43:53
for what are we bds’ing for
43:57
we have a whole bds campaign that isn’t
43:59
that political
44:00
the three elements of bds are not a
44:02
political program
44:04
so everybody’s you know not buying
44:06
hewlett-packard
44:08
but what are we bds’ing for what’s the
44:10
end game
44:11
in this fight against apartheid in south
44:13
africa there was
44:15
always an endgame there was one person
44:17
one vote
44:18
everybody knew that that was what we
44:20
were fighting for and the clerk would
44:22
come to mandela with all kinds of ideas
44:24
power sharing and three seats of
44:27
government and this and that
44:28
and mandela would always say no this is
44:31
our and everybody knew that this is what
44:33
we were doing
44:33
we don’t have that with palestine we
44:36
know the two-state solution is gone
44:38
but we don’t have a replacement and so i
44:41
think this
44:41
is one of the things that we’re trying
44:43
to do is work with palestinians
44:45
because unless there’s a palestinian
44:47
buy-in right to a political program and
44:49
i think
44:50
one democratic state over all of
44:52
historic palestine
44:54
with the uh with the return of refugees
44:58
of course
44:59
is the only it’s the only way out
45:00
because the only way
45:03
you end settler colonialism is through
45:05
decolonization
45:07
so in a sense israel has almost defined
45:10
for the palestinians
45:12
what the nature of the struggle is it’s
45:14
not conflict resolution it’s not
45:15
negotiations
45:17
it’s not two states we know that we know
45:19
what it isn’t
45:20
what it is is an anti-colonial movement
45:25
right so what is that so now the
45:27
palestinians have to say what does that
45:29
mean
45:30
what are our interests what do we need
45:33
how do we decolonize zionism
45:35
and how do we liberate palestine and
45:38
those are the questions and not
45:40
enough palestinians are asking those
45:42
questions today in my view at least
45:44
i’d be interested to hear what yuma has
45:46
to say about that
45:47
without putting you on the spot yeah no
45:51
that’s fine i mean these are
45:52
conversations that i see
45:53
happening in the streets with friends
45:55
with palestinians that i talk to just in
45:57
everyday life i think
45:59
um i think that it’s definitely
46:03
i think that it’s definitely a mixed bag
46:05
i think that um
46:07
they’re definitely i don’t think in what
46:09
i’ve seen of course
46:10
i can’t speak on behalf of palestinians
46:12
but in terms of what i’ve witnessed in
46:13
my reporting and speaking to people
46:15
that there is isn’t one singular
46:18
consensus
46:19
sort of on um one state solution
46:22
two-state solution etc
46:24
um but just if we’re talking about the
46:27
discourse surrounding the
46:29
one state solution just in the past
46:31
whatever five years that i’ve been here
46:34
i’ve seen actual changes from friends
46:37
from colleagues people who once
46:39
you know would nev didn’t support that
46:41
idea or were once you know sort of still
46:42
supporting the two-state solution or
46:44
something similar to that
46:45
have now sort of come moved forward to
46:48
say actually you know i don’t really
46:50
think that there’s any other viable
46:52
sort of solution other than the
46:53
one-state solution i still think that
46:56
again from what i’ve seen um it’s not
46:58
something that’s it’s not a conversation
46:59
that’s being had
47:01
in like in the palestinian mainstream in
47:03
the palestinian states i think it’s a
47:05
conversation that’s been
47:07
had a lot in palestinian academic
47:09
circles um
47:11
and you know liberal progressive your
47:13
progressive palestinian circles online
47:15
etc
47:16
but um something that a lot of people
47:18
don’t really realize is that oftentimes
47:20
the
47:21
the discourse that we see amongst you
47:23
know palestinian scholars and academics
47:25
online is very different than
47:27
the discourse that’s happening in the
47:28
streets and the camps and the cities and
47:29
the towns et cetera
47:31
so i think that it’s um
47:34
it’s it’s a concept that’s being
47:36
discussed more and more
47:37
since i’ve been here but yeah i think
47:40
it’s safe to say that
47:41
it still hasn’t really um completely you
47:44
know permeated
47:45
the mainstream and i think i i
47:47
understand where
47:49
where jeff is coming from i understand
47:52
that sort of need and it’s something
47:53
that palestinians talk about all the
47:55
time it’s like okay once we achieve
47:56
liberation then what it’s something it
47:58
was literally having this conversation
48:01
with people the other day um with some
48:03
with a group of friends and you know
48:05
mostly young palestinians
48:07
and they were they were talking about
48:08
the fact that you know okay well what
48:10
happens next if we do manage to achieve
48:12
liberation if we do manage to
48:14
sort of keep this momentum with these
48:16
uprisings and this movement going
48:17
forward what happens next we saw what
48:19
happened
48:20
in egypt we saw what happened in tunisia
48:22
we saw what happened essentially in the
48:23
arab spring with all the surrounding
48:25
countries and
48:26
um you know that didn’t necessarily have
48:29
maybe like one unified plan in place
48:33
um which which made way for you know the
48:35
current situation that we see
48:37
in in the region so those conversations
48:40
are being had
48:41
um i don’t think that i don’t think it’s
48:44
um at a lack for lack of trying i guess
48:47
at least amongst palestinians
48:48
specifically young palestinians
48:50
and i think more and more um as time
48:53
goes on as we see
48:54
international solidarity continue to
48:57
grow as we see
48:58
um movements and and sort of these
49:01
uprisings you could say that we’ve seen
49:02
in the past two weeks as they they
49:04
continue to happen
49:05
um these conversations will continue to
49:07
grow but so long as
49:09
i i get just from what i’ve i’ve seen i
49:11
get why
49:13
it’s hard you know to move past the
49:16
ex existence’s resistance for example or
49:19
the
49:19
the resistance phase of things because
49:22
that is so
49:23
very much the reality that palestinians
49:25
are entrenched in
49:26
i’m not saying that people are incapable
49:29
of you know thinking about the future
49:31
they very much are and those
49:32
conversations are very much being had
49:34
but um i think it’s completely
49:36
understandable to see
49:38
why um maybe our people are focused on
49:40
the here and now they’re focused on
49:41
the bds of now they’re focused on the
49:44
liberation of now because
49:45
they’re um ex you know
49:49
the attempt to totally
49:53
you know that the ongoing ethnic
49:55
cleansing of
49:56
of them as a people is very imminent and
49:58
it’s a constant threat
50:00
so yeah it’s hard to like work on a
50:02
charter
50:03
when you’re trying to avoid like rubble
50:06
and being bombed and like being like
50:09
shot well
50:10
you know being killed like while you’re
50:11
in your car you know i get that
50:13
as well right yeah and
50:16
anything else that you want to share
50:18
with us yuma about um
50:20
just things that i think i asked you
50:21
this last time like what you wanted to
50:23
make sure people
50:24
knew and you very helpfully provided the
50:26
context of like how we got here
50:29
um just anything else you wanted to let
50:31
people know about what it’s like living
50:33
there um do peop by the way i have a
50:35
question do people think that you’re
50:37
palestinian when they interact with you
50:40
uh
50:40
um i think that i don’t know are you
50:42
asking about if palestinians think i’m
50:44
palestinian or like non-palestinians
50:46
i mean both i think sometimes
50:49
palestinians
50:50
just because um i guess uh
50:53
because i speak arabic i think to a
50:56
relatively
50:57
um like well degree i think i speak
51:00
arabic quite well so sometimes people
51:02
might think that i have some sort of
51:04
arab background which i don’t and um so
51:06
i think people might think that oh maybe
51:08
your dad’s palestinian your mom’s spouse
51:09
needs something like that that’s
51:10
obviously it’s not the case
51:12
and then also for non-palestinians um
51:15
i think people just people might just
51:18
assume like oh well there’s
51:20
brown yeah exactly like especially for
51:22
white people they’re like oh well
51:23
there’s this brown person
51:24
like in palestine so she’s probably
51:26
palestinian right yeah
51:28
so yeah but your accent is like when
51:30
they hear your accent it’s like oh
51:32
you’re
51:32
you didn’t grow up grow you didn’t grow
51:34
up in palestine yeah i think sometimes
51:36
people might
51:37
think i’ve i’ve gotten here because
51:39
there’s so many palestinians right that
51:40
have dual citizenship right palestinian
51:42
americans and so people
51:44
might think i’m sort of fall into that
51:46
category
51:47
um yeah yeah
51:51
um but yeah so i’m just always
51:53
interested like in how people are
51:55
perceived where they are
51:56
um like uh do people ever think you’re
51:59
palestinian then they find that you’re
52:01
not like do palestinians think that
52:02
you’re palestinian then they find that
52:03
you’re not
52:04
dude like jews think you’re palestinian
52:06
then they find that you’re not
52:07
any interesting like stories coming from
52:10
there
52:11
i mean i think that i think i’ve had
52:13
both
52:14
right um i think also just like
52:18
um appearance and obviously like race
52:21
and
52:21
skin color play a role in and everything
52:24
um
52:25
but yeah so when i when i speak arabic
52:27
um people kind of assume that maybe i
52:29
have some sort of you know palestinian
52:31
or arab maybe not necessarily
52:33
palestinians or maybe any sort of arab
52:35
influence
52:36
i don’t uh my parents are indian by way
52:39
of south africa so
52:40
that’s yeah yeah you’re like that’s my
52:42
connection it’s the whole apartheid
52:44
thing
52:44
yeah i mean that’s if you wanted a
52:46
connection to palestine it’s the fact
52:48
that my parents grew up in apartheid
52:49
south africa and they were very active
52:51
in in you know in their youth in
52:54
in the resistance movement in in south
52:56
africa so
52:57
i guess that’s the the strongest
52:59
connection right yeah what
53:01
what do they what do they think of this
53:03
your parents if i mask
53:05
it’s it’s interest obviously i mean
53:08
they have their whole personal approach
53:11
obviously
53:12
because their daughter is living here as
53:15
a political
53:16
human rights situation they’ve always
53:19
it’s never been a question growing up
53:21
like i said it’s literally never been a
53:23
question
53:23
of that you know we should support
53:25
palestinian human rights
53:27
and what’s happening uh the oppression
53:30
of palestinians what’s happening in
53:31
palestine is wrong
53:33
um and from the time we were young they
53:35
always compared it you know i said
53:36
i grew up sort of learning about it from
53:38
a religious perspective but because my
53:40
parents have that background um they
53:42
were very much
53:43
sort of vocal about that also in our
53:45
household and and why it was important
53:47
to um to draw those parallels between
53:50
the apartheid you know that they lived
53:51
under and what was happening in
53:52
palestine so i grew up in a family that
53:54
was
53:54
um you know uh very vocal
53:58
about that but then also on a personal
54:00
level i think it’s it’s hard for them
54:01
because they knew
54:02
what it was like to live under you know
54:04
oppressive apartheid regimes and
54:07
um what it meant to to move in those
54:10
those spaces obviously i’m not
54:12
palestinian and so there’s so much
54:13
privilege that comes with being
54:15
an american like a foreign journalist
54:16
but yeah on a personal level i think
54:18
they worry sometimes but they get it
54:20
they get why i’m here
54:22
um and anytime they question you know
54:24
why
54:25
you know oh maybe why do you like why do
54:27
you still want to stay there why do you
54:29
want to be there
54:30
um i always just tell them well you know
54:32
i grew up
54:33
with two parents who i literally grew up
54:36
hearing stories about
54:37
them resisting the apartheid regime in
54:39
south africa
54:40
and that’s those are the stories that i
54:42
i grew up hearing and those are
54:44
the the role models that i had so i
54:46
think
54:48
that the apple doesn’t fall far from the
54:50
tree
54:52
yeah um and yeah anything else i mean i
54:54
know that you you’ve been really
54:55
generous with your time
54:57
um and and just anything else you want
54:59
to make sure people know about like i
55:00
appreciated what you were saying about
55:02
how you know the academic
55:03
online consensus doesn’t necessarily
55:06
represent the you know not non-academic
55:09
consensus
55:10
um anything else that you want make sure
55:13
people know about that you experience
55:14
while you’re there yeah i mean
55:17
obviously i can take this it’s not just
55:20
this is
55:20
just a shameless plug for mondoys but
55:22
genuinely it’s
55:24
um it’s good obviously to to diversify
55:27
um you know your your sources for for
55:29
news and for happening for
55:31
for learning about what’s happening on
55:33
the ground in palestine and there are
55:35
an array of different voices coming out
55:37
of palestine and it’s great to seek
55:39
those out on places like mondo ice um
55:41
places like electronic intifada middle
55:43
east i imu all these different
55:46
organizations that are doing um really
55:48
great work and telling all different
55:50
kinds of palestinian stories
55:51
um that might that you might not
55:54
necessarily
55:55
be getting online and i guess what i
55:56
would would finish with
55:58
is that um i think we’re definitely
56:01
we’ve seen
56:02
we’re living in a moment now we’ve
56:03
definitely seen this huge moment that’s
56:05
happened over the past couple weeks and
56:07
i would encourage people
56:08
um no matter you know the different
56:10
smear campaigns that we’re already
56:12
seeing to come out and
56:13
the the different threats and um
56:17
and restrictions and um censorship that
56:19
we’re seeing i would still encourage
56:21
people to to continue to speak out and
56:23
to continue to push the narrative and
56:25
and shift uh the narrative as as we move
56:27
forward and
56:29
and to continue to to amplify
56:31
palestinian voices
56:32
as you know as we continue to to move
56:35
forward
56:36
yes and i’m having a bunch more of those
56:37
on by the way
56:39
so uh bringing back some old uh
56:42
standards ali abu nima’s coming back on
56:44
um
56:45
and i’m also uh having bringing on
56:47
people who i have not had on before
56:50
so i’ll be doing more earlier streams
56:51
like this so yes
56:53
definitely i didn’t mean to ask you to
56:56
like you know on behalf of palestinians
56:58
no yeah not one but yeah yeah you’re
57:00
just saying that you’re just suggest
57:01
giving encouraging people to do that
57:03
which i i personally like
57:04
even as someone who’s lived here for so
57:06
long i’ve lived in this community for so
57:08
long i’ve
57:08
i’ve been reporting on palestine for so
57:10
long and i i still
57:12
um the best thing that i continue to do
57:15
for myself is
57:16
to to continue to educate myself and
57:18
continue to learn
57:19
um and and follow the lead of the people
57:22
around me so
57:24
yeah okay and yeah and and keep us
57:27
uh in the loop you should come up uh oh
57:30
i do want to get miko palette do you
57:32
guys know him
57:33
he’s like the son of some israeli like
57:36
butcher
57:36
not butcher really i mean i’m being a
57:38
little he’s the son of some israeli
57:40
general or something
57:41
and he’s like super critical anyway yeah
57:44
we’ll do that
57:45
his father the general was also critical
57:47
he was a communist
57:48
oh wow let’s get him both on is he not
57:51
alive anyway
57:51
was more critical than the sun you know
57:54
what forget it i don’t want this
57:55
the sun i want the father is the father
57:56
alive i’ve died a number of years ago
57:58
all right i’ll take the sun
57:59
i’ll take the sun only because the
58:01
father’s not alive only because the
58:02
communist
58:03
more hardcore critic not a lot around
58:05
you’re lucky mikko
58:07
no uh or michael um and uh oh yuma’s
58:10
last appearance on the katie helper show
58:11
blew my mind what what what
58:13
about it by the way see i’m really
58:15
taking down the fourth wall
58:17
was it the way she just totally took um
58:20
attack the
58:21
you went after some talking points you
58:22
definitely did a great job you did the
58:24
israel cares about civilians and hamas
58:26
doesn’t
58:28
talking point you also said something
58:29
really interesting about the
58:31
problematic nature of the civilians
58:33
discourse and then noor erica came on i
58:35
don’t know if you saw it after but it
58:36
was like a really amazing
58:38
segue because jeff um yuma was talking
58:40
about
58:41
the you know how it’s like they have to
58:44
be
58:44
children you know we have to talk and
58:46
understandably we’re gonna we people
58:48
will mention when they’re children who
58:49
are killed
58:50
but it’s almost like the discourse has
58:51
become
58:53
but for the children and the elderly um
58:56
it’s not it’s not really that sad what’s
58:59
happening to palestinians because there
59:00
is this you know
59:02
implicit kind of um implicit
59:05
uh representation or assumption that
59:07
palestinians are kind of like by default
59:10
like terrorists and so you have to find
59:12
the the not you know the non-men
59:16
victims of it and then right after you
59:19
noor erakat came on i
59:20
i offered my related condolences but
59:23
we’d never spoken before
59:24
about her her cousin who was a young
59:26
palestinian man who had been killed
59:28
and then she went on to talk about
59:30
because you had mentioned that family
59:32
15 um who were her friends
59:35
family members at that point people
59:37
thought that 15 had been killed it’s
59:39
actually been
59:40
now we know 22 22. okay so even one up
59:44
from 21.
59:45
um and so yeah those were that was
59:49
i i think that people really don’t get
59:52
like if if we
59:53
if people saw photos of like families
59:56
and i don’t want to do
59:57
i’m not like pitting um israelis and
60:00
palestinians against each other or jews
60:02
and arabs
60:04
and muslims uh i know that these are not
60:06
interchangeable but anyway
60:08
the point is like if those were israeli
60:11
jewish people
60:12
and the whole family had been wiped out
60:15
like 21 members of a family have been
60:17
wiped out it would have been
60:18
like non-stop headline news
60:22
and yeah yeah
60:26
and i mean it would have been like the
60:28
you know the retaliation would have been
60:33
like unprecedented but that didn’t
60:35
really happen so
60:37
i think nora said it perfectly said
60:39
palestinians have to be the perfect
60:41
victims
60:42
you know palestinians are expected to
60:44
lay down and die that’s
60:45
what she said you know what i’ve
60:47
experienced so much in
60:49
in my reporting as well even when just
60:50
reporting on palestinian children that
60:52
are killed for example in the west bank
60:54
like literal children 16 14
60:56
15 years old um the second
61:00
that the army claims that they were
61:03
throwing stones or that they were
61:05
participating in a protest
61:07
as if it’s i mean in the army’s eyes and
61:09
israel says it’s justification
61:11
for their killing right but also somehow
61:14
in the media and in
61:18
just public discourse around palestine
61:20
it’s like yeah palestinians really are
61:22
expected to be perfect victims they’re
61:23
literally expected to
61:24
to lay down and die if if a 16 year old
61:27
was
61:28
was shot and killed throwing stones
61:30
people are trained to ask well why was
61:32
he throwing stones
61:34
not why was a child throwing stones seen
61:38
as so much of a threat that they had to
61:39
be killed
61:40
you know yeah
61:44
yeah it’s like yeah i mean i’ve seen
61:45
that it’s disgusting people like well
61:47
yeah it’s complicated though because he
61:48
was throwing stones like really
61:51
and again it’s like even if they there
61:54
was were not settler colonialism clearly
61:56
like
61:58
throwing stones is not um a death you
62:01
know punishable by
62:02
capital punishment but like the fact
62:04
that it’s in
62:06
the context that it’s in like the
62:08
context is never really described
62:10
so it just seems like out of the blue um
62:13
you know this is why we can’t have nice
62:14
things yeah
62:16
as opposed to yeah so i mean i’m always
62:19
surprised i’m not saying this to be like
62:21
to
62:21
to you know whatever the non-right-wing
62:24
version of the term virtue signaling is
62:26
but like i’m always
62:27
amazed that there isn’t more violence
62:31
like from the people who are
62:36
resisting
62:40
yeah but that’s yeah um all right well
62:43
thank you
62:44
jeff and i are going to talk more about
62:45
the one state thing you’re of course
62:46
welcome
62:47
but i know it’s late there and um we’ll
62:50
probably bore you with our help or on
62:51
helper stories i’m just kidding
62:52
but um yeah thanks for having me yeah
62:55
it’s great talking to you it’s great
62:56
talking to you yes yes
62:57
you’re our west bank you’re our west
62:58
bank well you are non-palestinian west
63:01
bank stringer so we’re going to have it
63:02
in best banks during our time i hope so
63:05
yeah okay
63:06
thank you guys thanks bye bye nice to
63:08
meet you
63:10
all right so let’s see oh great having
63:13
discussions give me hope by the way
63:14
everyone share this
63:16
share um this stream you can support on
63:19
patreon and i’m going to do a fundraiser
63:21
soon but honestly the more important
63:22
thing now
63:23
excuse me is to just share the stream so
63:25
people know that we’re talking about
63:26
these things because they’re pretty
63:27
important
63:28
and jeff can i ask you some more
63:30
questions of course
63:31
all right so i did i wanted to ask you
63:34
and i think it’s a it’s an interesting
63:36
and uncomfortable thing to talk about
63:37
right because it’s like
63:39
we want to take the lead from
63:41
palestinians
63:43
i just want to be honest about something
63:45
i keep hearing
63:47
that i used to just like dismiss and i
63:49
kind of still do but i realize it’s not
63:50
effective if we want to actually like
63:53
reach people so there and it’s funny i
63:56
said this to norman finkelstein
63:58
who’s become like a weekly feature of
63:59
the show and i should have you guys on
64:01
too and also you and
64:02
noora but i said something to him about
64:04
how people are like oh well if you know
64:06
if
64:07
if it becomes a one state then hamas is
64:09
going to be in power
64:10
and they will like throw the gays and
64:13
women from the rooftops which i think is
64:15
a bit hyperbolic obviously
64:17
um but people do really think that or
64:19
they think something along those lines
64:21
and then you know there
64:23
some people really think that genuinely
64:24
some people um are cynically saying that
64:27
knowing it’s not really going to happen
64:28
but
64:29
when i brought this up to finkelstein he
64:30
was like well you know
64:32
it would i’m not going to my norm
64:33
impersonation it would be
64:36
he basically said that he that it’s not
64:39
it’s not the south africa situation
64:40
right it isn’t this one person one vote
64:43
framing as of yet but i don’t even know
64:46
like
64:46
shouldn’t we just step back and i want
64:49
to both step back and let palestinians
64:51
take the lead and i also don’t know what
64:52
to say when people freak out about it
64:54
because i kind of casually was like well
64:56
if they have to leave
64:57
the jews have to leave is that something
65:00
that has to be accepted
65:01
like either implicitly or explicitly
65:04
before if we’re going to be honest about
65:06
the potential um one state
65:10
well you know we we simplify uh
65:14
palestinians a lot i mean that’s what
65:16
humanity was always talking about as
65:17
well
65:18
and nora you know first of all hamas is
65:21
a
65:22
is a is a political party isn’t the
65:24
terrorist organization like biden and
65:26
the us
65:27
claims it is so you know and uh and it’s
65:30
very complex they have
65:32
uh like every political party they have
65:34
they have a military wing they have a
65:35
political wing there
65:36
there’s this agreement all right one
65:38
second i just want to par i just want to
65:39
clarify i wasn’t adopting the framing of
65:41
hamas being this okay i just want people
65:44
to know that i was
65:44
quoting people yeah but you know there
65:47
was back in i think 2006
65:50
all the you know where are the
65:51
palestinian leaders today a lot of
65:53
most of them are either dead or they’re
65:55
in prison
65:57
and we have to keep that in mind as well
65:59
um
66:00
so in about 2006
66:03
palestinians in prison from all the
66:06
different factions
66:07
from the left and the right from the uh
66:10
the pflp all the way across the hamas
66:13
and the islamic jihad
66:15
all got together in prison the leaders
66:18
and came up with what’s called the
66:20
prisoner’s document that you can look up
66:22
online
66:23
and hamas signed on to it and it’s a
66:26
two-state idea it’s a very moderate
66:28
document saying that if israel really
66:31
agrees to withdraw
66:33
from the west bank east jerusalem and
66:35
gaza the 22
66:37
we will recognize we might not recognize
66:39
israel hamas didn’t go so far to say
66:41
they’ll recognize israel because they
66:43
don’t want to legitimize colonialism
66:46
i mean there’s a logic to that as well
66:48
but they’re willing to
66:49
to live at peace with israel sign an
66:51
agreement with israel
66:52
um and uh so basically hamas has and
66:56
they’ve repeated that many times over
66:58
the years that hamas basically accepted
67:00
the two-state idea
67:01
it’s israel and the international
67:03
communities pushed them
67:04
uh you know to in a sense to where they
67:07
are but another important thing to
67:08
remember is that the palestinians were
67:10
always the most secular
67:12
of all the arab populations the very
67:15
you know why you have to say well what
67:17
is hamas why hamas
67:19
i mean hamas came out because
67:22
you know the fatah who was the
67:25
revolutionary leadership
67:26
mainly under arafat gave into israel
67:31
in 1980 you know fatah and the plo
67:34
began as an anti-colonial organization
67:37
in the in the middle 60s
67:39
in 1988 they gave up the anti-colonial
67:42
struggle
67:43
accepted the two-state idea recognized
67:45
the state of israel
67:47
and then got into this whole ridiculous
67:48
austral peace process
67:50
so hamas has remained all these years
67:54
the
67:54
only effective in in jihad as well
67:57
islamic jihad
67:58
the only effective palestinian
68:00
organizations that still have an
68:02
anti-colonial idea that we have to
68:04
decolonize palestine
68:06
not that we have to throw all the jews
68:08
into the sea that isn’t
68:09
what they say right but that we have to
68:12
have
68:12
uh you know equal rights and i mean and
68:15
it’s true it’s not a secular idea that’s
68:17
that’s the problem i’m
68:18
also i don’t i’m not crazy about it he’s
68:20
allowed fundamentalism i mean don’t i’m
68:22
not a hamas supporter
68:24
in any way because i don’t think any
68:26
religious fundamentalism is the way to
68:27
go
68:28
but in a sense that’s you know that’s
68:31
the um
68:32
the default position that israel has
68:34
left the palestinians with because
68:36
israel will not deal with the pa with
68:38
the palestinian authority it won’t deal
68:40
with the boss it won’t deal with the plo
68:41
it won’t deal with the secular
68:43
right it only deal with
68:46
hamas hamas is the only political party
68:49
that israel
68:50
israel is the one that’s empowered hamas
68:52
right israel in a sense created hamas
68:54
as a counterweight to the to the plo
68:58
and and today if hamas is really the
69:00
leader
69:01
it’s not that the palestinians also
69:03
become religious
69:04
or they’re all into al-aqsa as a
69:07
religious
69:08
kind of thing al-aqsa is a much bigger
69:10
symbol than simply religion
69:12
um but but that but that
69:15
israel has left the field open only for
69:18
hamas
69:19
and and islamic jihad and so it’s
69:22
there’s a distortion so i think
69:23
in a situation where there’s where where
69:26
a decolonization process takes place and
69:29
we begin to really think about the
69:30
future and we start to talk to each
69:32
other
69:33
and move towards decolonization other
69:36
forces i mean hamas will be a
69:38
voice but other forces will come into
69:41
the fore as well and and so
69:42
we can’t make hamas these spokes
69:46
sure person of the palestinian people
69:49
right but also can’t we i guess this is
69:51
the thing that i don’t know exactly
69:54
it’s not really up to us when i say us i
69:57
mean you guys there right i mean it’s
69:59
like unfortunately
70:00
or for better for worse it’s like we
70:02
can’t really
70:03
we have to just wait kind of wait and
70:05
see what happens because
70:08
well you know there’s two ways you can
70:10
go yeah you know that that’s
70:12
in south africa uh you know eunuch could
70:15
party tell us better than me but
70:17
in south africa the whites did not
70:20
participate obviously in the dismantling
70:22
of apartheid
70:24
that was a black struggle the ancient
70:26
struggle yeah
70:27
there were some whites that helped yeah
70:29
but it was amazing i didn’t know that
70:30
there was such a high up jewish white
70:31
guy in the ncaa
70:32
and there was a it was a fairly high
70:34
jewish you know of
70:36
nelson mandela the five white members of
70:39
nelson mandela’s first government they
70:40
were all jews of course
70:43
but that aside um
70:46
um you know
70:50
it was only when the international
70:53
community and
70:54
internal opposition forced to collect
70:56
made the collapse of apartheid
70:58
forced a transition that then the whites
71:01
began to get involved
71:02
right and they did play a certain role
71:06
especially in keeping the economy white
71:08
in a sense
71:09
here that the same thing is true is
71:11
going to happen the israeli public the
71:12
israeli jewish public is not going to be
71:14
an active partner they’re never going to
71:15
agree
71:16
to liberation of palestine or
71:19
decolonization or anything
71:21
so we have to kind of work around them
71:23
in a sense
71:24
the question is when do they come into
71:26
the picture
71:27
once the israeli apartheid system
71:30
collapses
71:32
will israeli jews come in at that point
71:35
like they did in south africa
71:36
like the whites of south africa and help
71:39
rebuild the new country
71:41
or is that rebuilding gonna have to be
71:44
done by palestinians and the israelis
71:46
are going to be
71:46
sullen and sit in the corner and just
71:48
get whatever they get
71:50
you know at what point i don’t know the
71:51
answer to that
71:53
but the point is that the the very the
71:56
the
71:56
the thrust of liberation the first
71:59
the initial you know uh impetus towards
72:03
liberation the vision of liberation the
72:05
plan of liberation maybe even the
72:06
constitution
72:08
that would develop is gonna have to be
72:10
done by palestinians
72:11
now that’s where somebody like like i
72:14
could you know me can help
72:15
because being an israeli but being a
72:18
critical
72:19
anti-colonial israeli there aren’t a lot
72:21
of us but there weren’t that many whites
72:23
in south africa that work in the agency
72:25
as well
72:25
what we can do is we can act as kind of
72:27
a bridge because i know where the
72:29
israeli mind is
72:30
i know where most my neighbors are you
72:33
see so i can be
72:35
in this process talking with
72:37
palestinians as we’re beginning to
72:39
to form a vision of what the future
72:42
would be like
72:43
in a way i can represent my israeli
72:46
brethren or fellow countrymen whatever
72:49
you want to call them
72:51
in a way that they that they wouldn’t
72:52
want to be represented they don’t agree
72:54
to be represented but
72:56
in a sense that ensures that
72:59
that whatever liberation concept there
73:02
has to it has to be inclusive
73:04
yeah you know we’re not in algeria yeah
73:07
the israelis are not leaving right so
73:10
the
73:10
and the palestinians know that and they
73:12
have to bite that bullet
73:14
and come up with a liberation plan that
73:16
gives them their liberation
73:18
and their sovereignty and access to the
73:20
entire country and everything else
73:22
but also with mechanisms of living with
73:24
israelis
73:26
in in with equal rights and
73:29
uh that’s you know not going to be easy
73:33
but
73:34
but it has to be a palestinian-led
73:36
process
73:37
and it’s not going to be algeria just
73:39
because of the numbers
73:40
um by virtue of the i mean for starters
73:43
yeah like in south africa as well you
73:45
know it was the same thing i mean there
73:47
are some
73:47
i have the united states as a settler
73:49
colonial country
73:51
said like communism wins in a way
73:54
yeah the sudden state becomes so strong
73:57
and so established
73:59
that the indigenous people just don’t
74:00
they can’t overthrow it
74:02
now the indigenous work the the the the
74:05
french colonists in algeria
74:07
even though they were in algeria for 150
74:09
years and they felt algerian worst
74:12
very small minority right in south
74:15
africa they were a fairly small minority
74:17
but they were so powerful
74:19
economically and militarily and so on
74:21
that they they couldn’t be thrown out
74:23
yeah and i think that and certainly in
74:26
the u.s the native americans
74:28
would probably love to throw out you
74:30
guys that’s right
74:31
that’s not gonna happen so sometimes the
74:34
indigenous people have to bite that
74:35
bullet and say okay now
74:37
how can we carve out a maximum
74:40
sovereignty and lands and
74:42
a cultural space and so on
74:45
within a settler colonial yeah
74:47
environment that we can’t that we can’t
74:49
prevent
74:50
it’s the orthodox jews that are i mean
74:52
they’re
74:53
making it so that but for them like
74:57
there would have to be some kind of
75:00
like reckoning with palestinians as
75:03
people
75:04
that just like i know that this is a
75:05
problematic discourse and people think
75:07
it sounds eugenicist but obviously just
75:09
looking at numbers which
75:10
this is i mean i’m not like cheapening
75:13
people to numbers but obviously that
75:15
makes a
75:15
huge difference you have like all these
75:17
people populating
75:19
like making aliyah you know the settlers
75:22
and it’s just like
75:24
right then what is true is that it won’t
75:27
be there won’t be a jewish state i mean
75:29
that’s something we have to know the
75:30
palestinians have the same problem
75:32
it’s not going to be a palestinian state
75:34
either so both peoples have that hump to
75:36
go over
75:37
but you know the palestinians will have
75:39
a majority there already
75:41
is a majority of palestinians in this
75:42
country before any refugees return
75:45
right and of course any just solution
75:48
has to allow the return of refugees
75:50
yeah there will be a large fairly large
75:53
palestinian majority in the country
75:55
but at the same time you know it
75:59
see what we’re predict what we’re
76:01
presenting as a one-state idea
76:03
isn’t a threat everybody sees as a
76:05
threat
76:07
we see it as a challenge as really
76:09
something very positive
76:10
jews and and palestinians arabs
76:13
christians muslims have lived together
76:15
for centuries
76:16
no primordial this whole idea that some
76:19
primordial
76:20
hatred isn’t true and in fact we already
76:23
lived together you know 20 percent
76:25
21 of israelis our palestinian
76:29
are are are you know palestinians
76:33
so you know and and what’s interesting
76:35
is
76:36
their frustration is you see it today is
76:38
that they want to go
76:39
into israeli society and it’s the jews
76:41
that are keeping them out
76:43
you know they want to integrate
76:45
governmental wise
76:47
negotiate get into society and they’re
76:49
being kept out so
76:51
it isn’t that they’re holding themselves
76:53
aloof we’re the ones that are keeping
76:54
them aloof right
76:55
even in the west bank you know without
76:57
minimizing at all the violence and
77:00
oppression of
77:00
occupation even on those conditions
77:05
israelis and palestinians get along
77:07
pretty well
77:08
you know i mean there’s no equality
77:11
and and everything else but they’re also
77:13
we’re not in each other’s throats all
77:15
the time so the idea that we can live
77:17
together
77:19
uh you know has been proven i think over
77:21
the last 70 years
77:23
what we have to do though is to show
77:24
that that potential for living together
77:26
can be translated
77:28
into living together as equals and not
77:30
as uh
77:32
as meron benvenisti once said is the
77:35
relations of israelis to palestinians is
77:37
a horse to a rider you know the israelis
77:40
are the are the rider and the
77:42
palestinians are the horse and there’s a
77:43
relationship we have a relationship but
77:45
it’s not
77:46
the relationship that you really want
77:48
yeah
77:50
i mean understatement yeah um but so i
77:53
wanted to
77:54
if you don’t mind i i actually think
77:56
that this is a useful um
77:58
educational um teachable moment where we
78:01
have this
78:02
i won’t i won’t say anything critical
78:04
for we again max blumenthal and leslie
78:06
lee on another show that i did we went
78:08
through
78:08
these talking points but we didn’t
78:11
actually i think it’s actually important
78:12
to maybe like go through them
78:13
somewhat seriously even though they’re
78:15
so unserious but
78:17
so this is this is this somehow this guy
78:20
named
78:20
ken or hen made it um and he’s
78:24
uh what is his name i’ll um pen you know
78:27
him oh that’s your
78:28
name right yeah here i’ll um but it’s um
78:32
can you can you guys see it and
78:36
ken mazzig is his name and he does he is
78:40
an israeli writer son of
78:42
amazig and iraqi jewish refugees mizrahi
78:45
queer
78:46
opinions in newsweek la times nbc news
78:48
and more and he does a lot of like um
78:52
you know jews in america and need your
78:54
support are jews indigenous people
78:56
experts in archaeology say yes um
78:59
you know a lot of he’s really trying to
79:01
like wokify i see
79:03
colonialism right so here’s here’s
79:05
something that he made
79:07
and it’s like a weird exchange between i
79:09
guess it’s a non-jewish person and a
79:11
jewish person
79:12
um so okay i read online i’m gonna read
79:16
this out loud so we can just respond to
79:17
them
79:18
i read online that israelis are
79:19
ethnically cleansing palestinians and
79:21
then the response is
79:22
stop taking everything you read online
79:24
for face value i think an israeli wrote
79:26
this by the way because their little
79:27
like
79:28
prepositions are are wrong it’s not at
79:30
face value stop taking everything you
79:32
read online for face value
79:34
palestinians face major many challenges
79:36
and inequalities but are not being
79:38
ethnically cleansed
79:39
however jews have been ethnically
79:41
cleansed from the rest of the middle
79:42
east
79:43
so and you were i mean that’s the op
79:46
the opposite of the truth of course
79:48
right i mean of course the palestinians
79:50
have been ethnically cleansed i mean the
79:51
read elon poppy’s book right exactly
79:53
yeah palestine which he’s a
79:56
professional historian who very
79:57
carefully documents i mean that that’s
80:00
not even
80:01
even right-wing israelis admit
80:03
ethnically i know they’re so much more
80:05
honest than the
80:06
than america yeah i know and also like i
80:08
always bring this up but it’s so funny
80:09
that benny morris who like turned
80:11
right-wing
80:11
is still like yeah it was ethnic
80:13
cleansing uh yeah
80:15
it should have been ethical could have
80:16
been more there should have been more
80:18
yeah right that’s it that’s right so
80:20
that he admits it yeah so guys this is
80:21
not a good time that’s already
80:23
that’s ridiculous it has to be ethnic
80:25
cleansing because
80:27
you know when zionism began there were
80:29
other people there
80:30
some of was it was arab it was
80:32
palestinian
80:34
so what do you how do you set up a
80:35
jewish country in an arab country
80:38
they were jews they were caring land an
80:40
ethnically population
80:42
i mean ben gurion and jabotinsky
80:45
were absolutely crystal clear on this
80:47
you don’t have to guess i mean
80:50
there’s volumes of works by zionists
80:53
that
80:54
actually spell out exactly what they
80:56
were doing and some of them even used
80:57
words like ethnic lensing yeah well
80:59
that’s what benny morris was saying he
81:00
was like look
81:01
this the right wing benny moore so i’ve
81:03
met just so people know benny morris was
81:04
one of these new historians
81:06
he you know criticized israel then of
81:09
course was like
81:10
you know bannon but he was one of the
81:11
few who stayed in the country right yeah
81:14
so that’s why he went right but most of
81:16
them were right-wing
81:17
yeah so he became very right-wing but
81:19
again he in his book 1948
81:21
he like meticulously documented that
81:23
there was ethnic cleansing
81:24
and then he was kind of asked about it
81:26
he’s like yeah it’s uh you know
81:29
he wrote the book of the refugee problem
81:32
and he said that it was that or genocide
81:34
which is
81:35
something you hear all the time and i
81:36
think stops people in their tracks
81:38
because they don’t want to sound like
81:39
they’re genocide supporters or like
81:40
they’re downplaying the holocaust that’s
81:42
another thing we can get to but
81:43
but just for this slideshow carousel
81:46
it’s just a lie there was ethnic
81:48
cleansing and there is a cleansing
81:50
otherwise you’re a country jewish
81:52
country without anticleansing
81:54
they all left that’s something it’s
81:55
structurally necessary
81:57
the other side though is not right jews
81:59
were not ethnic cleansed from middle
82:01
eastern countries
82:02
matter of fact you still have a jewish
82:04
population morocco and iran and
82:07
big population of turkey you know jews
82:10
left a lot of them left but a lot of the
82:13
christians left as well
82:14
you know this is at a time when the
82:15
colonials were leaving there’s a rise in
82:17
nationalism
82:19
um you know some jews were involved with
82:21
arab nationalism as well
82:24
but for the for the most part it’s true
82:26
that when the uh
82:27
when when nationalism arose especially
82:30
when zionism arose too because that
82:32
that alienated many jews from uh
82:36
from their arab neighbors um
82:39
um you know many jews had to leave
82:42
because of all the the up
82:43
but they weren’t thrown out as a matter
82:45
of fact [ __ ] hillel
82:48
who was the speaker of the israeli
82:49
knesset and and the
82:51
police minister for many years wrote a
82:54
book he was sent
82:55
as well known he and other agents were
82:58
sent into iraq
83:00
in 1949 in the early 1950s
83:03
in order to bomb synagogues and markets
83:07
to scare jews to leave because the jews
83:09
didn’t want to leave iraq
83:10
and the iraqis didn’t want to throw them
83:12
out and it was the same with kurdistan
83:15
and they had to create this kind of uh
83:17
of a fear among jews that they’re being
83:19
attacked
83:20
you know to create the stampede out so
83:23
it it simply isn’t true that the jews
83:25
were able to be cleansed
83:26
right you know there were there were
83:27
movements back you know and jews left
83:30
which is true but
83:32
not because of an ethnic cleansing
83:33
campaign they were ethnically cleansed
83:35
by zionists
83:36
in the case you just say it well in some
83:38
ways yes i mean in some ways zionism is
83:41
responsible for for the biggest cultural
83:44
holocaust
83:45
think of jews that lived all over the
83:47
world for thousands of years the
83:50
cultures imagine the iraqi culture
83:52
the north african culture the yemenite
83:54
culture the russian culture the
83:57
you know the cultures of india you know
83:59
cultures of jews all over the world
84:01
and in a sense to to create conditions
84:04
in which
84:05
jews feel they have to leave or get
84:07
pressured to leave
84:08
or want them or you know or you create
84:11
this idea that you can only be really
84:13
jewish if you’re in this this country
84:15
here
84:16
and and of course zionism had this idea
84:19
of negating the exile
84:21
they called jews jewish these wonderful
84:24
rich jewish cultures including american
84:26
jewish culture
84:27
they called them ephemeral they call you
84:29
know they they weren’t real
84:31
they were they were just temporary
84:34
you’re really
84:34
jewish when you’re in israel which is
84:36
which is nonsense of course
84:38
but not only nonsense it’s really
84:41
this is an anti-jewish country from the
84:43
point of view of what jews judaism is
84:45
really about that’s another story yeah
84:47
yeah but the point is that that the
84:49
destruction of jewish cultures
84:51
these historic ancient jewish all over
84:54
the world was the
84:55
was the product of zionism not of
84:58
anything else
84:58
zionism destroyed a rich jewish world
85:02
only now i think in the states and other
85:05
places are jews abroad beginning to wean
85:07
themselves away from zionism
85:10
say zionism cannot define us and are
85:13
beginning to go back and try to reclaim
85:15
some of their jewish
85:17
and legitimize validate their own jewish
85:20
cultures that aren’t defined by israel
85:22
but israel did that it was very
85:25
very imperialistic towards the jews
85:27
because it wants to be the jewish
85:30
power that you were sent from the only
85:31
jewish voice
85:33
and jews are resisting that i think yeah
85:36
have you ever spoken to ellie valley i
85:38
should have both of you on the show at
85:39
the same
85:40
time he wrote that book to israel boy
85:42
versus diaspora man
85:44
no other way around diaspora boy versus
85:45
israel man it’s really good
85:47
okay so we got we got that one out of
85:49
the way okay next
85:50
isn’t the israeli palestinian conflict
85:52
just a middle eastern argument over land
85:54
between muslims and jews
85:55
yes but not the first jewish people have
85:57
lived in jerusalem for thousands of
85:59
years and they’ve lived in the middle
86:00
east for ages being oppressed
86:02
raped and murdered by the arab empire
86:04
like palestinian christians
86:07
that’s ridiculous first of all jews
86:09
lived a very very secure life
86:11
in the arab world uh i know what they
86:14
mean by arab empire
86:16
i know yeah what is that the ottoman
86:17
empire i mean i don’t know what that
86:18
means
86:19
arab empire is a stupid term yeah the
86:22
jews lived very on the contrary that was
86:24
you know if you compare them to europe
86:26
you know the chief rabbi of the jews it
86:29
was sat in istanbul
86:30
in the in the sultan’s court you had a
86:33
chief rabbi here in in jerusalem
86:36
jews had a very formal they were
86:40
they had a formal status in the muslim
86:42
world um
86:43
they lived a very secure life uh
86:46
actually in the
86:47
in the muslim world so that you know
86:49
that part is ridiculous but the point is
86:51
yes jews did live here thousands of
86:53
years and they can
86:55
that’s true you know they’re trying to
86:59
the same look at the same quote that
87:00
same bubble they’re saying the liver for
87:03
thousands of years
87:04
trying to give the idea the jews are
87:05
sort of like natives and they’re really
87:06
here
87:07
but they were always persecuted it’s not
87:09
true they lived here
87:11
they weren’t persecuted i mean here and
87:13
there they were they were they were
87:15
instances of course like in every
87:16
history but but they were but
87:18
they lived here and uh and the cha
87:22
what zionism did you see zionism came in
87:26
and ruined it because zionism came in
87:28
and said not that
87:30
you know we’re jews we see
87:33
the land of israel as our homeland we
87:35
want to come home we want to revive our
87:37
national culture our national language
87:40
but we recognize that there’s also a
87:42
palestinian people here
87:44
there are people here obviously 90
87:47
some percent of the population wasn’t
87:48
jewish we acknowledged that
87:50
now we want to come as immigrants like
87:53
our forefathers did for thousands of
87:55
years
87:56
live with you and we can develop our
87:59
national
88:00
cultures together there’s not that was
88:02
that was the idea of cultural zionism
88:04
eliezer ben yehuda henrietta zold who
88:07
started hadassah
88:09
judah magnus who started the hebrew
88:10
university martin buber these are all
88:13
prominent
88:14
jewish figures that that believe that
88:17
yes we’re a national group that should
88:19
be here in the land of israel
88:20
we want to speak hebrew and heaven but
88:22
we can do that together with
88:23
palestinians we don’t need a state
88:26
we don’t want to ghettoize ourselves
88:27
again in a innocent they were against
88:29
them
88:30
so the designers and the broad and the
88:32
idea that this country belongs to us
88:34
exclusively
88:36
it’s ours we’re going to ethically
88:38
cleanse it get out you arabs
88:40
you don’t belong here and that was that
88:43
i mean the jews that lived here for
88:45
thousands of years
88:46
they were appalled by the zionists
88:49
uh by the zionist attitude you know the
88:52
jews
88:53
i wrote a book about the old yeshua of
88:55
in jerusalem in the 19th century
88:57
they were appalled by the zionists this
88:59
is a fart of jews who were born
89:02
because they felt that they were the
89:03
they were the jews were part of the
89:05
indigenous
89:06
palestinian population so uh you know
89:09
and they felt that they were being
89:10
alienated from the people they’ve lived
89:12
with for thousands of years so that
89:13
whole quote that you gave
89:16
again everything is reversed you know
89:18
jews lived very well in the muslim world
89:20
and and they did live together with
89:23
palestinians until zionism came
89:25
and created that alienation and that in
89:28
that conflict basically
89:30
which doesn’t mean there weren’t
89:31
obviously because then people are like
89:32
how dare you there was this
89:33
my family was obviously there were there
89:35
were episodes but there are episodes
89:37
like there were
89:38
but it’s not this existential
89:40
incompatibility that people like to
89:41
claim and again it doesn’t make sense
89:43
because if jews were there for so long
89:45
and there was persecution how did they
89:47
like they got
89:48
almost wiped out obviously in europe but
89:51
you know
89:52
this is the only major persecutions
89:54
really
89:55
i mean here and there it depends you
89:57
know if you come if you talk about the
89:58
crusader times or you know right
90:00
now the the only the more difficult
90:03
it’s true was iran and yemen when you
90:06
had a shiite to muslim country
90:08
it was harder on the jews that’s true
90:10
but it is
90:11
also harder on the christians right we
90:13
also have to understand that jews and
90:15
christians
90:16
were very much involved with trade and
90:18
they had relations abroad and when the
90:21
cult
90:21
when the european colonization began
90:24
when europe france and britain and
90:26
european countries began to come and
90:28
take over the middle east
90:31
jews and christians tended to work with
90:34
the europeans because they were the more
90:36
educated
90:37
they did more trade you know and so in
90:40
some ways
90:41
uh that alienated them a little bit from
90:45
from the muslim population that is
90:47
usually
90:48
wasn’t so involved with the europeans
90:51
and
90:51
uh and then when you know the colonists
90:54
left
90:54
the liberation movements began sometimes
90:57
it’s true that that created tensions as
90:59
well
91:00
but uh but for the most part you know
91:02
again it’s
91:03
it is true a little bit in the shiite
91:05
countries
91:06
uh jews have more of a problem but
91:08
overall the jews live the very secure
91:10
life of the middle east
91:12
all right so that’s number we got two
91:14
out of two what a shame and what a
91:16
surprise they’re not being
91:17
uh they’re either incorrect by the way i
91:19
tweet it out so that in case deborah
91:21
messing or
91:22
hen want to join the chat i mean i’m i’m
91:26
assuming you’re open to debating them
91:27
okay let’s see what’s next so
91:29
those are the two of carousel slides and
91:31
then we got
91:33
um let’s go back to the share
91:37
screen um
91:42
okay so next slide yeah
91:45
um oh wait whoops who are they sending
91:48
these slides to
91:48
they’re i mean i’m obviously there are
91:50
people who are sending these things out
91:52
to some like well-known people
91:53
and holla you know so deborah messing
91:55
has never been the
91:56
sharpest knife in the drawer but she’s
91:58
just uh she’s you know this is part of
92:00
her i should actually let me back up
92:01
i don’t know who she is oh sorry she’s
92:03
from will and grace she’s part of the
92:04
resistance she’s a blue check liberal
92:06
like major you know like a blue check
92:10
like on twitter she’s a blue check she’s
92:13
oh sorry she was on the show
92:14
will and grace which was a f which was a
92:17
sitcom about
92:18
a gay man and a straight woman who lived
92:21
together
92:21
she’s uh actor mama the distinctive
92:24
podcast
92:31
oh you can also have her do a cameo for
92:32
you oh my god we should write a cameo
92:34
script for her
92:35
wishing someone happy birthday for like
92:38
wishing the knock but happy anniversary
92:40
or something that would be great let’s
92:41
we’ll put our heads together for that
92:42
later but here’s the context of it
92:44
please take three minutes and read
92:46
through this carousel there is so much
92:47
disinformation about israel being spread
92:49
and it is getting people hurt there are
92:51
videos from all over the world including
92:52
the us of crowds of pro-palestinian
92:54
protesters attacking beating kicking
92:56
using pipes as weapons against jews it’s
92:58
horrifying attacks against jews has
93:00
increased 483 percent in the last 10
93:03
days
93:03
86 attacks hamas is a terrorist
93:05
organization whose sole purpose is to
93:07
kill every jew and destroy israel
93:09
most people living in israel want peace
93:11
i know i mean there’s so much
93:12
that’s not true at all i pray for a
93:15
two-state solution
93:16
i pray for the killing to stop but this
93:18
is impossible as long as hamas is
93:20
allowed to continue its campaign to
93:21
destroy israel
93:22
hamas must be defeated for the safety of
93:24
everyone in the region for the safety of
93:26
jews everywhere
93:27
also so what is that’s basically saying
93:29
i stand with the
93:30
with the um uh bombing civilian
93:33
neighborhoods right like i don’t i don’t
93:35
know
93:36
we’re also reducing everything to hamas
93:38
oh of course i mean
93:39
you have to remember that you know we’re
93:41
talking about 125 year
93:43
colonial venture of zionism hamas is
93:46
maybe 25 30 years old
93:48
so before that 1948 is because of hamas
93:52
right i mean i mean to be fair it’s not
93:54
like if we said this to her she’d have
93:56
any idea what you were talking about but
93:57
yes
93:57
just so people know but i mean just her
93:59
i’m just saying like what this whole
94:01
thing about like they must be stopped or
94:02
like
94:03
like stop like it’s not like people
94:06
in the united states are walking around
94:08
it’s not like
94:09
politicians whenever people talk about
94:11
hamas i’m like okay great let me know
94:13
when the u.s government starts funding
94:15
them training them and bragging about
94:17
their special relationship with them
94:18
like who are you what what like who are
94:21
you speaking truth to power to when you
94:23
say
94:23
hamas is bad or what but the weird thing
94:26
is like they must be stopped
94:27
it’s not weird actually they’re just
94:28
basically they’re pushing
94:30
they’re just justifying and standing
94:32
behind ethnic cleansing
94:34
or we don’t have to call ethnic
94:35
cleansing it’s just what like civilian
94:37
just massacring civilians that’s what
94:39
they’re doing they’re trying to sanitize
94:41
and make what’s really sailor
94:43
colonialism which again deborah messing
94:45
doesn’t know what that is
94:46
but like they’re trying to make bombing
94:48
buildings
94:49
look like an existent responding to an
94:51
existential threat
94:53
and they know that people on the left
94:55
are people are shifting
94:56
and so they’re putting their i mean you
94:59
have to be pretty desperate to
95:00
to put your hopes into pr from from
95:03
debra messing but
95:04
um but you know israel is
95:06
instrumentalizing
95:08
israel instrumentalizes the palestinians
95:11
you know that’s the problem because you
95:13
know
95:14
you know we talked about it before i
95:16
mean israel wouldn’t would never deal
95:18
with the palestinian authority it would
95:19
never deal with the
95:20
with 90 90 some percent of the
95:23
palestinians they would never deal with
95:24
their issues with the liberation with
95:26
ethnic cleansing with the
95:27
with land issues with with all that
95:29
stuff so what they did is they pushed
95:31
and pushed and pushed
95:33
hamas and resistance you know they left
95:36
palestinians in a corner with nothing to
95:38
do except
95:38
resist in a religious kind of a way
95:40
almost so
95:42
they made hamas into the into the
95:44
palestinians
95:46
and that’s the incidental because then
95:48
you’ve then you take the most extreme
95:50
islamic fundamentalism and and push it
95:53
into a corner
95:54
and make its military wing dominant and
95:57
then you
95:58
characterize the palestinians as them
96:01
you see that’s where israel has
96:02
instrumentalized the palestinians it’s
96:05
created in our minds
96:07
what art how it wants us to imagine
96:10
palestinians which is hamas
96:12
and then they gave a word to it hamas
96:14
and that’s what’s happened
96:16
yeah palestinians have been reduced to
96:18
hamas right
96:19
yeah i mean again it’s so funny and
96:21
israelis will admit to all of this even
96:23
right-wing israelis they’re like yeah we
96:25
founded this nation through terrorism
96:27
yeah hamas we created hamas um but
96:30
uh so so but whatever messing i mean
96:33
again as i tweeted i almost feel bad
96:35
talking to her like she’s an adult but
96:36
um so please read the carousel get
96:38
informed share widely disinformation is
96:40
gas on the fire of anti-semitism and it
96:42
is everyone’s responsibility not to
96:44
amplify this information on social media
96:45
it hurts
96:46
if you’re an ally please act like an
96:47
ally we need you so again there this is
96:49
a very conscious thing they’re aware
96:51
they’re trying to make it look like
96:52
people who side with
96:54
palestinians in this are are
96:56
perpetuating anti-semitism and they’re
96:58
trying to actually speak to people
97:00
who in good faith are going to be afraid
97:02
of that and it’s
97:04
it’s so disgusting because just like the
97:06
you know
97:07
ben gurion these people are weaponizing
97:09
anti-semitism
97:11
and they care way more about zionism
97:12
than they care about anti-semitism
97:14
which is why you have netanyahu being
97:16
buddy buddy with
97:17
um you know orban and uh
97:21
in hungary and the polish guy even when
97:23
they like
97:24
basically say that like the holocaust
97:27
that poland did not they tried to pass a
97:29
law saying poland did not
97:31
it was not responsible for the holocaust
97:33
at all that’s right
97:34
no israel i think it puts the jews in in
97:36
real jeopardy
97:37
they are the they are next they’re
97:39
they’re an existential
97:40
anti-semitic director because you know
97:43
jews
97:44
had always been the met the odd man out
97:47
you know they didn’t fit in anybody’s
97:48
country they didn’t fit
97:49
within laws the legal system religious
97:51
systems
97:52
you know and so they were always always
97:55
the ones that
97:56
got persecuted basically um what
97:59
happened was you know part of the
98:00
process was after world war
98:02
ii and the holocaust and so on you had a
98:04
process of
98:05
the whole world of human rights starts
98:07
to open up and people don’t know this
98:10
jews don’t know this but the hero the
98:12
thomas jefferson of the world of human
98:14
rights
98:16
was you know who wrote the universal
98:19
declaration of human rights
98:21
no no rene kasin
98:24
renekasen c-a-s-s-i-n-s was a french
98:29
jurist a jewish french jurist
98:32
and he was the he was the thomas
98:35
jefferson of the world of human rights
98:37
he was one of the framers of the
98:39
universal declaration of human rights
98:41
of the geneva conventions he worked very
98:43
closely with eleanor roosevelt to get
98:46
all these things through
98:47
with the jewish community ironically he
98:50
was the american jewish community that’s
98:51
so rapidly pro-israel today
98:54
that was in favor of human rights and
98:56
and the geneva conventions and the
98:57
universal declaration of human rights
98:59
that governments didn’t want to accept
99:01
the jews were on the right side of
99:02
history
99:03
on those days and renee kassen
99:07
you know would always he won the nobel
99:09
peace prize in 1968
99:11
and he’s buried those that know the
99:13
paris
99:14
the pantheon which is the french temple
99:18
of of the heroes of the french republic
99:20
victor hugo is buried in the pantheon
99:23
rousseau is buried there some of the
99:25
great french figures
99:27
renek hassan is there as well wow and
99:29
naked
99:30
used to say that you know human rights
99:33
brings jews under the umbrella
99:36
now you know anti-semitism is a form of
99:40
racism
99:41
and human rights deals with all forms of
99:45
racism including anti-semitism
99:47
so what happened was that when
99:51
when israel was created of course uh it
99:54
was
99:54
in the interests of of the of zionism
99:57
which
99:57
dealt with you know with the illegal
99:59
things ethnic cleansing and
100:01
colonialism at a time when colonialism
100:03
was starting to phase out
100:06
had to work against international law
100:09
uh and then you had the occupation so
100:12
now you have the fourth geneva
100:13
convention that protects
100:14
palestinians living under occupation
100:17
israel’s
100:18
violated every single item of the fourth
100:20
gene of the convention
100:22
uh so you know and why do they do it
100:25
because we’re an exception
100:27
yeah we had the holocaust it doesn’t
100:29
apply to us
100:30
we’re special so renek ascend used to
100:33
say to the jews
100:35
are you sure you want to be special
100:37
again wow are you sure you want to step
100:39
out from under the umbrella with
100:41
everybody else
100:42
all the protections of human rights
100:44
international law
100:45
and now you want to be the exceptions
100:47
you know that that’s a double-edged
100:49
sword
100:50
and so in order to protect
100:54
jew you know israeli uh
100:57
policies like occupation and ethnic
100:59
cleansing that are against international
101:01
law
101:02
israel is forcing the jewish community
101:04
to step outside of human rights
101:06
to to violate or not ex not not to
101:10
not to advocate for human rights because
101:13
human rights and
101:14
israel are are at odds with each other
101:16
you see
101:17
and that’s where israel is losing the
101:19
jewish community
101:21
because american jews in particular i
101:23
think i think are defined by social
101:25
justice and human rights
101:27
so you had ron dermer dermer who’s the
101:30
who was the us the israeli ambassador to
101:33
the us
101:34
during the trump time for netanyahu he
101:37
said
101:37
last week israel has to forget american
101:40
jews we’ve lost them
101:43
all we have left are evangelicals right
101:45
yeah
101:47
and so i think jews to the degree that
101:49
jews see human rights
101:51
as important for them as well as for the
101:53
rest of humanity
101:55
have to stand against israel and that’s
101:58
that’s you see israel’s dilemma is that
102:01
you’ve got to
102:02
link up now this you know jews that
102:05
always see themselves as liberals
102:07
at least if not radicals right all of a
102:09
sudden have to link up with evangelicals
102:12
in order to support a country that that
102:14
violates human law
102:15
international law with uh with impunity
102:18
right i don’t think
102:19
that’s that’s putting jews in a terrible
102:21
position
102:22
and then netanyahu gets up in the u.n
102:24
and says we’re attacking gaza
102:27
in the name of the jewish people right
102:29
not in the name of israelis
102:31
this is a jewish state not the israeli
102:33
state
102:34
and so he creates that that
102:38
that confusion he blurs the boundaries
102:41
between jews and israelis
102:42
so now you katie helper who are not
102:45
israeli
102:46
who never voted for netanyahu have been
102:49
co-opted by him he now represents you
102:52
so now when you’re out in the street you
102:53
go try to explain to the
102:55
to your fellow americans why what israel
102:58
is doing isn’t your fault
103:00
or you’re not the responsible yeah what
103:03
the american jewish community has to do
103:05
is get up and say no just what you said
103:08
at the beginning of the end
103:09
of this program not in my name yeah
103:12
if the american jewish tree doesn’t do
103:14
that they can’t be blamed
103:15
for people confusing israelis news and
103:18
attacking jews
103:20
because that’s the confusion that israel
103:23
is trying to
103:24
do to to push on people right which
103:27
and of course it’s anti-semitic right
103:29
because the conflating jewish identity
103:32
with un questioning support of israel um
103:36
is anti-semitic but um yeah
103:39
exactly right has been has been
103:41
weaponized yeah
103:42
and i mean all the stuff like
103:44
netanyahu’s son posting a really great
103:46
alt-right
103:47
anti-semitic meme of george soros like
103:50
was that a i mean
103:51
which literally david duke was like
103:52
welcome yeah
103:55
uh netanyahu um okay yes that’s true
103:58
palestinians and arabs
104:00
are semites yes i mean we got to
104:01
reinvent the wheel then i guess
104:03
but i mean for i’m not sure that’s like
104:06
our biggest priorities
104:08
uh is redefining that term but um
104:11
i i guess it does speak to it ironically
104:13
to you know
104:14
a a connection that’s often
104:17
overlooked okay so we got that one let’s
104:20
see what’s next um
104:22
and i did not know about renee kasan
104:23
that’s interesting um
104:25
okay so back to deb i mean that is just
104:28
so disgusting that the
104:30
hamas has to be defeated again what are
104:32
you what are you saying like we’re
104:33
funding hamas or something
104:35
i just don’t get it okay again it’s just
104:39
hamas is willing to deal with israel
104:41
right right
104:42
israel yeah you know it’s not gonna
104:45
surrender
104:46
you know have a palestinian friend that
104:48
said to me you know israel won’t even
104:49
let us surrender
104:51
um you know hamas says fine okay two
104:53
states you know right and you know what
104:55
the palestinians say you know what keep
104:57
some of the settlements keep
104:58
east jerusalem just i mean they’re going
105:01
down down you know and israel won’t even
105:02
let them surrender
105:04
you just put because israel needs to
105:07
beat them it needs to defeat them
105:09
that’s without that it just keeps going
105:12
on forever and if the palestinians don’t
105:14
agree to be defeated
105:16
um they’ll be demonized and attacked
105:21
forever um okay next so there are
105:25
palestinian christians what about
105:26
israeli-arab palestinians are these
105:28
palestinians are there palestinian jews
105:30
and then she responds before israel gave
105:33
over control of the west bank and gaza
105:35
to the palestinians
105:37
there were 9.5 palestinian christians in
105:40
the area
105:40
under palestinian authority and hamas
105:42
hamas’s oppression they shrunk to one
105:44
percent
105:45
meanwhile israel has 20 arab-israeli
105:48
citizens muslims and christians
105:50
the pa said they won’t let any jews live
105:52
in palestine and do not recognize any
105:54
jew as palestinian
105:55
jews from the moon okay so uh yeah
105:58
that’s a lie i mean sometimes you know
106:00
you could not distort the truth just lie
106:03
right
106:03
so they’re just that’s just not true
106:06
that’s that what about the part about
106:08
the pa
106:09
yeah the palestinian authority okay jews
106:11
from the middle east do not identify as
106:13
arab this is really weird
106:15
jews from the middle east do not
106:16
identify as arab or palestinian because
106:18
they were never accepted as such they go
106:20
by israel mizrahi jews
106:23
so no jews identify as arab
106:26
how do they know this have they done a
106:28
have they done a
106:29
like a poll okay well i mean that
106:33
there’s a whole story there too and that
106:35
is that you know when uh
106:37
i mean mizrahi is a new term yeah they
106:39
didn’t call themselves miracles
106:41
they called themselves uh what they were
106:44
iraq iraqi jews young knights news
106:47
egyptian jews
106:48
you know a hundred years ago there was
106:49
no such thing as insurance
106:51
a matter of fact 20 years ago there was
106:53
no such thing as mizrahi
106:54
we used to sort of say misrach which are
106:57
jews from the east oriental jews
107:00
but but they used to call themselves you
107:03
know
107:03
if you’re coming from yemen you don’t
107:05
call yourself arab and this is
107:10
and that’s what they call themselves
107:12
right rocky jews i mean you still have
107:14
you have a museum of iraqi jews and lud
107:17
you’ve got the museums of safari
107:19
you know that they call themselves by
107:20
the names of the communities right
107:22
and uh and uh it was the ashkenazi jews
107:27
you see that basically said to the
107:29
mizrahi and that’s why you had
107:32
the black panthers and that’s why you
107:33
had that reaction that you had
107:36
among the among mizraki jews the
107:39
ashkenazi said to them
107:41
you will we will accept you as
107:45
israelis we will integrate you into
107:47
israeli life
107:49
on condition that you give up your arab
107:51
identities
107:53
you can’t be arabs and israelis you
107:55
can’t be arab jews
107:57
and there was a whole process in the 50s
108:00
that that
108:01
that they’re still paying the price for
108:03
of deculturalization
108:05
you know and they they destroyed their
108:08
ethnic identities their their
108:10
all the identities they had for
108:12
thousands of years
108:13
and tried to make them into uh into you
108:16
know imitation ashkenazi jews
108:18
you know which they have to some degree
108:21
and uh
108:22
it was tremendous reaction that’s why
108:24
until today miss rocky jews votely
108:26
couped
108:27
they would never vote for the labor
108:28
party because they’re still angry at
108:30
what the labor party did to them in the
108:31
1950s you hear that
108:33
all the time it’s an open wound
108:36
among among mizrahi jews so i think the
108:39
fact that they
108:40
that they’re they were de-culturalized
108:42
which is true
108:44
i mean today they don’t see themselves
108:45
as arab jews
108:47
on the contrary a lot of them walk
108:48
around with big stars of david because
108:50
they look a little bit arab
108:51
right no yeah and it’s like invincible
108:54
you know and that’s that’s a problem you
108:56
know so so i think
108:58
[Music]
108:59
you know that’s what’s happened to them
109:01
is that uh is that
109:03
uh they went through this process and
109:05
now the young generation doesn’t know
109:06
arabic is alienated from arabs in
109:08
general
109:09
and as they became israeli they came
109:11
more right wing
109:12
and and you know this the whole idea
109:14
that you have to be anti-arab because
109:16
zionism is basically anti-arab that’s
109:19
trying to make the country jewish and
109:21
and and de-arabize the country
109:23
right so if you’re going to de-arabize
109:25
the palestinians you have to de-arabize
109:27
the jews as well
109:28
yeah israelite processes these people
109:30
don’t either they don’t know
109:33
or they don’t they can’t they aren’t
109:35
because they’re
109:36
threatened to the narrative you need a
109:38
clean easy narrative
109:40
yeah we’re the good guys they’re the bad
109:42
guys we were persecuted
109:45
now we’re uh you know accepting of
109:47
everyone
109:48
that they’re not you know black white
109:50
binary
109:51
and the minute you bring up something
109:54
historical or analytical
109:56
or critical or whatever and you break
109:58
that binary narrative
110:00
uh it’s useless for you now yeah
110:04
it has to be simple and and
110:07
uh and uh you know so in many ways
110:10
structurally they’re incapable of
110:12
dealing with complexities
110:14
right i mean because it would undermine
110:15
like you’re saying they’re very kind of
110:17
like uh what ethno unless
110:20
right yeah right it’s interesting
110:23
because israel has such a weird
110:24
relationship with the
110:26
miser with the ashkenazi mizrahi
110:29
identity because they they’re like a
110:32
bunch of
110:34
i mean they’re run the country the
110:35
government right is like
110:37
mostly ashkenazi but they they try to
110:40
iden you know their whole the sabras
110:42
right who are born there
110:43
they like wanna be these bronze
110:46
strapping men who work the earth like
110:48
the total rejection of ashkenazi
110:51
identity of being like learned and
110:54
people physically i don’t think anymore
110:57
what people don’t use the word sabra
110:59
much anymore oh well
111:00
i mean just whatever like that was yeah
111:03
i mean but it was found
111:04
israel was founded on a rule yes the new
111:07
jewish man
111:08
which was fun ironically i mean it’s the
111:10
worst of both worlds they like took the
111:12
most aggressive stuff that they kind of
111:14
i think attributed to the the you know
111:17
the jew who was in israel and not
111:20
alienated from the land you know
111:22
but then they they are like discriminate
111:24
against the actual people that they’re
111:26
trying to kind of ape
111:27
um okay so we did that one all right so
111:30
i mean
111:31
we can’t keep track of the lies because
111:32
it’d be too much but okay but i heard
111:34
that israel is an empire that colonized
111:36
arab land first of all no one says i
111:39
mean they talk about set of colonialism
111:41
and maybe how israel is like
111:43
part of you know it’s like the out
111:45
outpost for the united states it was the
111:47
outpost for
111:48
europe like for england and the us but
111:51
people don’t really talk about
111:53
imperialism with israel that’s not even
111:54
a thing it’s settler colonialism
111:56
but they’re trying to colonize it did
111:58
colonize an arab country
112:00
yes but here’s why they’re saying
112:02
imperialism empire instead of and
112:04
because this makes it confusing
112:08
sorry colonialism was settling
112:09
colonialism right
112:11
here’s where it is i forgot to highlight
112:12
this so here’s the
112:14
but i heard that israel is an empire
112:16
that colonized arab land and then the
112:18
the persian response empires require a
112:20
motherland a place where the empire
112:21
sends the goods they steal
112:23
and where they bring the culture and
112:24
language to oppress their colonial
112:26
subjects like britain and america or
112:27
south africa
112:28
and british and dutch israel is only
112:31
point
112:31
zero three of the middle east and the
112:33
only jewish state in the world there are
112:34
57 arab and muslim countries in the
112:36
middle east that are part of the arab
112:38
empire what the [ __ ] is the exactly
112:41
there’s an arab empire
112:42
israel is a nationalist entity while the
112:45
arab world is an
112:46
imperial one who are the who are the
112:50
arab world
112:51
where’s their home base that they’re
112:52
sending the goods to
112:54
they’re stealing from where and sending
112:56
them where
112:57
i mean these are such blatant lies it’s
112:59
kind of incredible
113:01
it’s stupid i mean it’s more than lies
113:03
it’s just it’s just words i mean it’s
113:05
well part of it is stupid
113:07
like the deborah messing people who who
113:09
put it out but then it’s cynical and i
113:11
think it is worth debunking right
113:12
because and it’s good in a way that we
113:14
get access to
113:15
these clearly coordinated talking points
113:17
israel is not an empire
113:19
i know i mean literally how is it but i
113:22
wrote another book
113:23
called war against the people yeah i
113:25
have that here in which i say
113:26
that israel serves the empire right
113:29
which is different
113:30
you see and that’s important because the
113:31
uh you know the occupied territory we
113:34
have to understand
113:35
is like a laboratory for israel’s
113:38
perfection of of high-tech
113:40
military weaponry surveillance equipment
113:43
technology
113:44
repression what happened in gaza last
113:46
week
113:47
had nothing to do with security right it
113:50
was a military exercise
113:51
in which israel tested all kinds of
113:54
military weaponry
113:56
um and if you see a you look up the
114:00
websites
114:00
of all the israeli arms manufacturers
114:03
they’ll all say
114:04
by our navigating systems they were
114:07
field tested in gaza
114:09
by our drones they were combat tested in
114:12
gaza
114:13
gaza is a is is a field laboratory for
114:16
israel
114:17
to to test including american f-35s
114:20
you know israel is flying f-35s and
114:22
bombing palestinians
114:24
before americans are flying the american
114:26
air force is flying f35
114:28
so that you gotta understand that the
114:30
occupation really serves
114:33
israel in terms of being this place
114:35
where you can do anything you want to
114:36
the palestinians
114:38
develop your weaponry for export and
114:41
it’s that weaponry for export that gives
114:43
israel the international status that it
114:45
does
114:46
both with the u.s but also you know all
114:48
over the world why does china support
114:51
israel and india support israel brazil
114:52
support israel
114:54
nigeria support israel they’re all
114:56
getting every country is getting
114:58
some kind of military security uh
115:01
assistance from israel or work or
115:03
technologies from israel
115:04
yeah and uh from that point of view
115:07
israel really serves the empire israel
115:10
helps the corporations
115:12
and the militaries and the capitalist
115:14
countries the global north
115:16
keep its hegemony over the global self
115:18
enforce
115:20
its hegemony uh and uh including the
115:23
global south within your country you
115:25
know the
115:26
rich over the poor you know you have
115:29
israel israel
115:30
uh the israeli police train the american
115:32
police
115:33
well no at georgia state university
115:36
atlanta you’ve got what’s called the
115:38
gilly center
115:39
which is an israeli center on the campus
115:42
of georgia state with a building
115:44
that’s the base for training the
115:46
american police
115:48
and plus american police come here so
115:50
that so that
115:52
enforcing capitalist hegemony
115:55
uh is true not just globally but it’s
115:58
true in every country
115:59
whatever the different needs of that of
116:01
that country and that
116:02
israel does serve the empire israel
116:05
isn’t an empire of course it’s a little
116:07
country
116:08
but it’s a very effective uh servant of
116:11
the input
116:12
yeah and it gets it’s just rewards yeah
116:15
um okay let’s see
116:19
uh all right let’s see so where okay
116:22
um here’s some more hasbro
116:27
okay um
116:32
you write an article about it yeah well
116:33
yeah i don’t so here’s the the
116:35
the skeptic again i don’t believe that
116:37
israel isn’t a colonial empire
116:39
i’ve read so much about it from
116:41
instagram again they’re like totally
116:43
trying to pathologize
116:44
the borders like they’re also projecting
116:46
that’s where you get your historical
116:48
sources guys but
116:49
not the rest of the world you can always
116:51
tell an empire by language
116:53
arabic is an imperial language like
116:55
english and french promoted through
116:57
settler colonialism
116:58
and imperial hegemony throughout the
117:00
middle ages since the 20th century
117:02
rise of pan-arabism leaders advocated
117:04
ethnic cleansing policies towards
117:06
indigenous peoples kurds berbers and
117:08
sudanese
117:08
they want to permanently reduce the
117:10
status and power of indigenous religious
117:12
groups
117:13
such as jews cops and maronites across
117:15
the region
117:16
this doesn’t suddenly okay here’s their
117:18
like they’re paying like lip service to
117:20
caring
117:21
about human rights this doesn’t suddenly
117:23
make every israeli policy okay or
117:25
minimize the death of palestinians but
117:27
knowing history helps us move
117:28
closer to peace that’s right right
117:32
you should all you should know frank
117:33
luntz do you know frank luntz yeah
117:35
franklin’s the um
117:36
the the pollster right he’s a republican
117:39
pollster yeah
117:40
and he’s the guy he did a whole
117:42
dictionary of husband
117:45
guy that really developed the strategy
117:47
of israeli husba
117:49
and part of his strategy he says it very
117:51
openly you can look it up on the uh
117:54
you know it’s on the internet his whole
117:56
thing is
117:58
don’t come out against to be against
118:00
arabs you have to come out if you’re
118:02
going to explain israel
118:03
sympathetic to arabs sympathetic to the
118:05
suffering of the palestinians
118:07
sympathetic to human rights right and
118:10
then within that framework
118:13
you do you see yeah yeah that’s very
118:15
well how
118:16
frank nunes is reflected in this kind of
118:19
right
118:20
he also i mean no no wonder um that
118:24
no wonder um he had you know he
118:27
he’s the one who found out he did those
118:28
studies about liberal
118:30
american jews checking their zionism at
118:32
the door instead of
118:34
for liberalism instead of checking their
118:35
liberalism at the door for zionism
118:37
which is a phenomenon called progressive
118:39
except on palestine exactly
118:41
yeah so people are really key to
118:43
understanding yeah
118:44
yeah yeah he also looks a lot like a
118:46
duck which is neither here nor there
118:48
but um okay um
118:52
let’s see okay what about the refugees i
118:55
heard
118:55
israel ethnically cleanse palestinians
118:58
in israel the number of palestinian
118:59
arabs increased since its foundation in
119:01
the middle
119:02
east the jews almost completely
119:04
disappeared palestinian refugees
119:06
unlike any other group of refugees in
119:08
the world is a new term
119:10
now describe any dis any decadent guys
119:13
you really need to proofread this
119:14
any decadent of palestinians even bella
119:17
and gigi
119:18
hadid are defined as refugees because
119:21
their father is a billionaire
119:22
palestinian
119:23
no that’s not why they’re defined as
119:24
refugees again
119:26
that is nonsense such a michigan awesome
119:30
yeah it’s so dumb
119:31
oh was i showing you okay but refugees
119:33
of course is not a new term the
119:34
palestinian refugees
119:36
are the largest from 48 of the largest
119:39
refugee population in the world
119:42
why do so many people spread these lies
119:43
online then because people like you
119:46
this is so israeli it’s such peak
119:48
israeli like
119:49
framing because people like you know
119:51
nothing about the conflict and resort to
119:53
infographics on instagram
119:55
including the one we are in and then
119:57
repeat those lies
119:58
don’t take my word for it research for
120:00
yourself find out all the facts don’t
120:02
support what’s popular because you want
120:03
to feel good about yourself
120:04
that’s stupid love you are better than
120:06
this you know better okay this is
120:08
turning into a very unhealthy dynamic uh
120:13
what the hell also you know the whole
120:15
line about how it’s complicated you
120:17
don’t get it you don’t live there we’re
120:18
in bomb shelters as norman finkelstein
120:20
says
120:20
would you rather live in a bomb shelter
120:22
for two weeks than uh an open-air prison
120:24
for 15 years
120:26
and also that’s just undermined by the
120:28
fact that you have
120:29
places you know organizations like
120:31
betselem people like you
120:33
uh who live there and are critical and
120:35
acknowledge all this stuff
120:36
so that’s just bs you know again they
120:38
try to guilt people
120:40
right but you know what israel is losing
120:42
it in the court of public opinion right
120:43
the thing we have to
120:45
keep in mind is that israel is not
120:47
winning here
120:49
israel is strong with governments for
120:51
the reasons i said because of its
120:53
exports military and security and
120:55
surveillance
120:56
it is not strong with peoples of the
120:58
world and that’s why it’s so shrill
121:00
that’s why it weaponizes anti-semitism
121:03
that’s why it it it tries to uh
121:06
to uh you know scare the jews into uh
121:09
into supporting israel and so on
121:11
it has no case right and i think i think
121:15
you know peter beinart is now writing
121:16
about this a lot
121:18
it’s clear i mean israel is losing if
121:20
he’s just losing american jews
121:22
forget it it’s really lost everybody
121:24
else and i tell you something else
121:25
israel’s starting to lose the
121:26
evangelicals too really why
121:29
evangelical groups that are beginning to
121:31
under
121:32
they’re also beginning to understand so
121:36
you know you can see this as has but i
121:39
don’t think you have to have the
121:40
illusion that it’s really being
121:42
effective
121:42
it’s effective among certain hillel kids
121:46
maybe
121:47
i don’t know about among who but i think
121:50
overall israel is really losing it and
121:53
this is simply a desperate
121:55
attempt to sort of claw its way out of
121:57
the corner but i think it shows more
121:59
desperation
122:00
the very fact that you have to resort to
122:02
hasbro and lies and this kind of stuff
122:06
shows the degree to which you know
122:07
you’re not in a very strong position
122:11
all right let’s see oops um we got some
122:14
nice
122:15
all right uh let’s see share okay
122:21
okay
122:24
all right back to the scholar um but i
122:27
also heard this conflict isn’t about
122:29
religion and hamas are freedom fighters
122:31
defending palestinians
122:32
girl you need to spend less time online
122:34
believing everything you read
122:36
hamas is a genocidal terrorist group
122:38
that launched over 1500 rockets on
122:40
israeli civilians last week and murdered
122:42
several
122:42
google hamas charter and see what they
122:44
say about jews knowing how lazy you are
122:46
here’s the quote
122:47
but as maxwell’s all pointed out like
122:49
they’ve updated their charter
122:52
yeah they’ve thrown out the charter to a
122:53
large degree that’s right
122:56
but also charters and what does the
122:58
charter mean charter is your
122:59
is you know the way you look at the
123:01
world and you can look at the world in
123:02
all kinds of ways
123:03
the point is what are your policies what
123:05
are you willing to
123:07
to do in the real world and hamas is
123:09
willing to deal with israel it is
123:10
nothing that does deal with israel well
123:12
i
123:16
hamas was called a terrorist group yeah
123:18
but i mean hamas was it was
123:20
was a group supported by israel i mean
123:22
it really is
123:23
israel created hamas became a terrorist
123:26
group when they won the
123:27
well they didn’t really win the
123:28
elections they got 40 but
123:30
they became the dominant party in the
123:32
election palestinian elections
123:34
that israel and the pa abbas
123:37
and the us didn’t like and that’s when
123:40
they were classified as a terrorist
123:42
group when they
123:43
when they won the elections in a
123:46
democratic election that even jimmy
123:48
carter
123:49
certified was was democratically one
123:52
they won
123:53
and that’s why they were called the
123:55
terrorist group in order to
123:56
nullify the election and then gaza was
123:59
put under a siege 15 years ago 2006.
124:03
so that’s the background it has nothing
124:05
to do with hamas policies
124:06
with their ideology there was a hamas
124:08
for a long time
124:10
before 2006 or at least 15 years or so
124:14
before that they were active israel knew
124:16
about them israel actually
124:18
gave the money and so on because they
124:19
want to be a counterweight to
124:21
fatah and the plo so that it has nothing
124:24
to do with that it had to do with the
124:25
fact that at a certain point
124:27
israel wanted to neutralize them and the
124:29
best way to neutralize the palestinian
124:31
group is to call them terrorists
124:33
and of course they had and this is this
124:35
is condoleezza rice
124:37
yeah the birthplace of a new democracy
124:39
and then leading right into obama
124:41
obama played and biden played as much of
124:44
a role as bush
124:45
or or rice did so that you can’t just
124:48
blame republicans for this
124:50
democrats have been more more uh
124:54
guilty of this kind of manipulation than
124:57
republicans actually uh let’s see
125:01
uh okay let’s just we’re almost done
125:03
with this painful thanks everyone for
125:05
bearing uh with me
125:06
with uh uh let’s see what’s with me
125:10
no i’m but i’m i’m subjecting i’m asking
125:12
you to respond to these so how do we
125:13
free palestine
125:14
well the majority of israelis support a
125:16
palestinian state besides israel in the
125:18
west bank
125:19
in gaza and you should support it too uh
125:23
who supports the palestinian state in
125:24
the west bank
125:27
you know maybe
125:30
maybe 20 of israelis
125:33
on a sunny day right
125:36
and they and even then if you told them
125:38
that means giving up malayam they’d say
125:40
no
125:42
i mean it’s just ridiculous they’re just
125:44
saying whatever they want to say
125:46
there’s no relationship to anything
125:49
that’s why it’s hard to argue with
125:50
because yeah well yeah there’s no facts
125:53
here there’s no
125:55
there’s no substance yeah you say
125:57
anything you want to say
125:58
well you just i mean you’re responding
126:00
to it by by showing the truth so
126:03
extremely the only way you can respond
126:05
that’s the problem we have
126:07
see these are sound bites right anybody
126:10
can look at this you read it
126:11
in a second you’re reading it to the
126:12
people without without you know
126:14
okay and it’s simple and it’s black and
126:17
white and et cetera and it has a
126:18
clear answer and this is right and this
126:20
is wrong and that’s it when i’m
126:22
responding to it
126:23
and i’m responding to it as briefly as i
126:25
can i have to get into whole lectures
126:28
right each of these lies each of these
126:30
words arab empire for example
126:32
each of these things require what is a
126:34
mizrahi jew requires
126:37
explanation and you don’t have that time
126:39
in the media right
126:40
you don’t know just radio pro most
126:42
programs i’m on don’t give me the time
126:44
you’re giving me
126:44
right yeah so we have to put in a sound
126:47
bite
126:48
right a complicated fact-based analysis
126:52
versus a simplistic bunch of lies that
126:54
israel can just say
126:56
right so it isn’t really a fair fight
126:57
right and we have to really have
126:59
strategies of how do you do that
127:01
we call it the reframing yeah we family
127:04
we’ve worked very hard
127:05
by the way my organization is the
127:07
israeli committee against housing i know
127:09
that’s what i i mess up
127:11
yeah and we work very hard on reframing
127:14
uh the conflict from a security framing
127:17
that israel
127:18
tries to produce to more of a human
127:20
rights crime than the colonial framing
127:23
that that you know gives you a whole set
127:25
once you get
127:26
once you get the framing right and the
127:28
logic that’s why i said look
127:29
that’s why this book is so important
127:32
that i have to say
127:33
because it gives you the political logic
127:35
once you get the logic of it as against
127:37
the zionist logic
127:39
yeah then you can understand yourself
127:41
all this stuff is nonsense that they’re
127:42
saying
127:43
i forgot it’s only if you don’t have the
127:45
the alternative logic that you get
127:47
caught up in you don’t know if what
127:49
they’re saying is true or not because
127:50
you don’t have a logic of your own
127:52
right yeah uh okay i think i
127:56
did you guys send me that book yet i
127:57
can’t remember
128:00
uh okay i gotta write to your publisher
128:02
okay so
128:03
back to we’re almost done with this and
128:05
yeah i mean but i think it’s just worth
128:07
i think sometimes it’s useful to show
128:08
how
128:09
incoherent and dishonest they are so
128:11
then you can dismiss everything else
128:12
they do
128:12
okay extreme nationalists on both sides
128:14
try to claim palestinians and israelis
128:16
don’t deserve national rights
128:18
if you see someone opposing the basic
128:20
human rights of either side
128:21
are saying they don’t exist stay away
128:24
yeah they don’t agree with israel says
128:26
palestinian human rights don’t exist
128:29
yeah and palestine doesn’t exist and
128:31
they’re saying the opposite
128:33
right you’re saying there are two sides
128:35
who equally worthy of living in dignity
128:37
and security
128:39
then the woman goes this is what my
128:40
therapist calls a breakthrough
128:42
palestinians and israelis both deserve
128:45
safety liberation freedom and justice
128:47
they have an interesting way the
128:48
israelis of showing that that’s the
128:50
frank lloyd’s thing
128:52
yeah it’s like the two-state thing it’s
128:54
like what does that mean it’s just
128:56
yeah so i think we’re done with this
128:58
weird abusive uh
129:00
relationship display but um
129:06
yeah and then the last thing um i wanted
129:09
to just review is
129:10
did you see this clip of um what is her
129:13
name
129:13
hold on ruth something this yiddish
129:17
scholar and by the way for people it’s
129:19
wise
129:20
yeah by the way for people who don’t
129:21
unders like the ashkenazi thing
129:23
basically think of ashkenazi as like
129:25
all this well it sounds problematic all
129:27
this like
129:28
einstein chomsky um freud all of these
129:32
guys
129:32
are yeah they’re european so like all
129:35
the stereotypes or like the
129:37
like the things that i will say like
129:39
lovingly about jewish
129:40
stuff it’s almost always applied to to
129:44
ashkenazic
129:45
larry david but um okay
129:48
so let me just look at this roots what
129:50
is it wise not so wise
129:52
yeah yeah yeah this is an amazing video
129:55
yeah i don’t know if you saw that oh my
129:58
god the dirsh
129:59
hold on does anyone have that video of
130:02
her
130:02
like talking about how jews have to
130:04
defend israel it was on the internet it
130:06
was going a little viral
130:08
um hold on yeah she’s famous for that
130:11
you get these uh mouthpieces
130:15
it’s like the asparagus look at this
130:17
hold on
130:21
but they don’t have much traction i mean
130:23
we can take comfort in that i think
130:25
i need to see that the last week oh here
130:27
it is i found it
130:29
fellow diaspora jews please watch this
130:31
from isaac to castro okay let me show
130:33
this
130:34
again it’s just useful to see to tap
130:36
into their
130:37
their hasbro their talking points okay
130:40
and then
130:41
sorry guys trigger warning this woman is
130:42
pretty uh unpleasant and then also the
130:45
irony is well we’ll talk about this at
130:46
the end
130:47
what a sellout this person is if she
130:48
cares about jewish culture i mean yeah
130:50
sorry yiddish culture
130:51
okay and you will say what you want us
130:55
to make you look
130:56
good that’s not my job your job
130:59
is to make us look good that’s his
131:02
reality our job is not to make you look
131:04
good american jews what do you have to
131:06
worry about
131:07
your job is to make us look good and
131:10
here’s how you do it
131:12
every one of us has to serve three years
131:14
in the army two years in the army
131:16
some of us five years and then for the
131:17
rest of our lives
131:19
you have got to serve two or three years
131:21
in the army of words
131:23
you’ve got to learn to fight the
131:25
political battle
131:26
which is even more important at this
131:28
point than the military battle
131:31
we’ll fight the military battle we’re
131:33
not asking you necessarily to come
131:35
and be lone soldiers although some of
131:37
you can you’ve got to learn
131:39
how to fight back on the campuses how to
131:41
make the arguments
131:43
now they keep shifting you know it
131:46
the the ground keeps shifting under us
131:48
they keep
131:50
language intersectionality wasn’t even a
131:52
word
131:53
ten years ago now suddenly it’s
131:54
intersectionality you’ve got to stay on
131:56
top of it
131:57
and you know how we train for the army
132:00
we don’t train for defensive warfare
132:03
if the if war against israel ever had to
132:06
be fought on israeli soil
132:09
do i have to tell you it’s it’s an
132:12
impossibility
132:13
so it’s the same thing don’t let the war
132:16
of words
132:17
ever be fought about israel’s nature
132:20
let it be fought about why you can’t
132:22
accept israel
132:23
why you have to single out this tiny
132:25
people
132:26
try to find israel on the map it’s
132:29
hardly there
132:30
you know we used to play this game
132:32
where’s waldo
132:33
you know you know there’s where is waldo
132:36
on the map
132:37
are you going to really tell me that
132:38
this is the country you want to blame
132:40
push deal teach them how to defend
132:44
by attacking teach them really what one
132:47
says as in
132:48
fencing you’ve got to do that you’ve got
132:50
to make demands on them they’ve got to
132:52
serve for three years in the army of
132:54
words
132:56
no what do you mean no the army army we
132:58
are well i i i
133:02
cannot even start
133:05
with this
133:08
who is that guy that’s a guy who’s like
133:10
compete with this passion and compassion
133:13
compassion is that the guy who like
133:14
replaced um was replaced by this
133:18
avigor uh lieberman no this is sharansky
133:21
who’s that no i know but isn’t he the
133:23
guy who was like in the same party as
133:24
lieberman he was originally
133:26
yeah he’s a real sellout because you
133:28
know he was a prisoner of conscience and
133:30
right in the soviet union
133:32
oh yeah very close to sahara sahara was
133:36
the
133:36
the main human rights defender
133:39
uh you know in the soviet union yeah and
133:42
uh
133:44
and everybody including me i mean
133:46
american jews fought very much to get
133:48
sharansky released as a prisoner of zion
133:51
and he got released and he came to
133:53
israel and became a super
133:55
xenophobic right-wing guy who
133:59
who violated every every
134:03
concept of human rights you know again
134:05
he was he was the greatest example if
134:08
you want the example
134:09
that renee cassen brings up of who
134:12
understand human rights
134:13
but who want to step outside and say
134:15
well it doesn’t apply to us
134:17
because we’re special that’s strong a
134:19
terrible terrible guy
134:21
you know really he really betrayed the
134:24
whole
134:24
sakharov and the whole world of human
134:26
rights all the people who supported him
134:28
he betrayed
134:29
yeah you know by becoming a right-wing
134:32
uh
134:32
racist racist he owes you guys a lot of
134:34
time back
134:36
you wasted hours on him just kidding um
134:39
okay so yeah that’s uh and what’s so
134:41
interesting is that like again
134:42
this woman’s dedicated she’s like a
134:44
yiddish culture professor
134:46
how are you going to defend this country
134:47
that dropped you know that threw
134:49
yiddish under the bus for hebrew
134:52
you know it was illegal in the early
134:54
years of israel to speak healing
134:56
jesus christ it was the only country in
134:58
the world where jews could be arrested
135:00
for performing
135:02
that’s amazing again it’s like the
135:04
anti-semitism
135:05
is stronger than the no sorry the
135:07
zionism is
135:08
a bigger priority than stopping
135:09
anti-semitism that’s right someone was
135:11
telling me that that
135:12
famous because it was anti-jewish
135:15
right it was anti-jewish and it’s still
135:18
anthony it still is yeah
135:20
well there was something right
135:23
yeah and it puts jews in danger it does
135:26
and also
135:27
there’s i didn’t know this at that
135:28
famous boat that fdr turned around they
135:30
want some
135:31
like zionist wanted pressure attempt to
135:33
turn it around also yeah
135:36
because they didn’t because they wanted
135:37
people to have to go
135:39
uh yeah oh this is another talking point
135:41
that’s pretty common
135:42
um remember the problem could also be
135:45
solved by palestine egypt relations
135:47
so it’s like oh you know egypt is worse
135:49
on palestine their
135:50
their blockade is worse or they’ll say
135:53
none of the arab countries want them
135:56
as if that makes it’s not really
135:57
relevant
135:59
well i mean you know the problem is that
136:01
there’s an alienation between the
136:02
governments and the people in those
136:04
countries
136:05
the egyptian government does not
136:06
represent the egyptian people
136:08
there but there are a lot of dictators
136:09
and autocrats in the in the arab world
136:11
that run the arab world
136:13
that are in bed with israel and the
136:15
united states and
136:17
trump and everybody else and uh but that
136:20
doesn’t
136:20
uh apply to the arab peoples for whom
136:23
the palestinians are very important
136:25
yeah um all right well yeah this has
136:28
been great
136:29
people want recommendations of books
136:31
first of all of jeff’s books anything
136:33
else that you recommend
136:35
well there’s a there’s a number of books
136:37
i mean there’s a new book by nora
136:39
huracan i really wrote oh yeah justice
136:41
for some is that
136:42
i got to get that yeah about a erasing
136:45
palestinians
136:46
using international law to to erase
136:49
palestinians
136:50
uh my book is decolonizing israel
136:53
liberating palestine
136:54
that’s one book another book is war
136:57
against the people about the israeli
136:59
arms industry um elon poppe’s book of
137:03
course the ethnic cleansing of palestine
137:06
avi shlaim who’s another israeli
137:08
historian
137:10
s-h-l-a-i-m who has a book called the
137:12
iron
137:13
the iron wall about israel’s relations
137:16
to
137:16
the arab world over the years what’s it
137:18
called i mean i know how do you spell
137:20
his last name i know he is but how do
137:21
you spell it
137:22
s h a a s
137:25
h l a i m h
137:34
yeah and then what is it the iron the
137:37
iron wall
137:38
and he’s he’s an iraqi jew
137:43
oh i didn’t know that um you know so he
137:46
he’s writing his biography now
137:47
autobiography which should be
137:48
interesting i mean norman stillman is a
137:52
is another scholar that deals with
137:54
rocky jews if people are interested in
137:55
looking into that
137:57
um i think he’s got a book called jews
138:00
from arab lands
138:02
something like that jeff tell ya thanks
138:05
for turning me on to
138:06
at the drive-in back in 2003
138:09
we hung out at diwan in west jerusalem
138:12
one night
138:13
who’s the idea
138:18
is my son oh okay do you name him after
138:21
netanyahu’s son just kinda
138:22
um yeah yeah yeah
138:27
um any online pod program sign me up
138:30
um all right leave gordon has a
138:34
book on occupation how do you spell his
138:36
name
138:38
gordon g-o-r-d-o-n
138:41
he has several good books on occupation
138:44
and also on the israeli surveillance
138:46
industry and so on
138:48
i mean there’s a lot of books you know
138:49
we have in east jerusalem was called the
138:51
educational bookshop
138:52
oh wow just from the the floor to the
138:55
ceiling
138:56
is that where you’re in front of right
138:57
now is that where you are now
138:59
no no i’m at home in my study but uh the
139:02
educated bookstore is is filled with
139:04
books on on on palestine it’s not that
139:06
there’s
139:07
a lack of things to read and of course a
139:10
lot of palestinian
139:12
uh you know writers as well that we have
139:14
to
139:15
we always have to mention yeah nora
139:18
but they’re uh what about diane um
139:25
has she written books or she’s i mean
139:27
she’s wrong she has certain articles
139:29
yeah
139:29
really fascinating stuff yeah you know
139:33
some of the young palestinian
139:34
intellectuals there’s a a website called
139:37
al shabaka which is like a
139:40
think tank but it’s online new articles
139:42
and thoughts
139:43
of young palestinian intellectuals which
139:46
people should uh
139:48
you know could look at if they’re
139:49
interested in what
139:51
young intellectual palestinians are
139:53
thinking these days
139:54
what how do you spell that then
140:00
s-h-a-b-a-k-a
140:15
or not as many yeah yeah well
140:18
of course is you guys oh alia bonima
140:20
yeah he’s been on the show a bunch yeah
140:22
um i mean and he’s yeah he’s written two
140:27
books
140:27
right right um i’ll put his name in
140:30
there
140:31
um all right great jeff thank you so
140:34
much for this
140:36
all right thanks for having me check out
140:37
his website what is it
140:39
uh your website um my website
140:42
yeah oh i put it well i put one thing
140:45
again
140:46
i can i see ahd the israeli committee
140:50
i know not the international coalition
140:53
as i said
140:54
against housing okay icad what is it um
140:58
it’s really coalition against housing
141:00
demolition right that’s house
141:01
demolitions
141:02
oh cool i know what al is i know al is a
141:07
definite article yeah all right i’ll
141:10
i’ll take some questions i’ll i’ll stay
141:12
on this i really appreciate this jeff
141:14
okay yeah very much
141:15
thanks yeah definitely yeah are you
141:17
coming to the states anytime soon
141:21
when i can okay yeah how do you say who
141:24
knows in hebrew
141:26
how do you say that yeah
141:30
okay yeah yeah with an american accent
141:35
do you have an american accent yeah yeah
141:37
people yeah
141:38
but it’s funny because you say hey in
141:40
hebrew
141:41
[Music]
141:43
yeah yeah it’s the filler word instead
141:45
of uh
141:46
yeah who’s mandy kahan
141:51
anyway do you know that person i’m not
141:54
sure
141:55
all right okay oh wait last thing for
141:58
you
141:58
sorry tell us about um you got arrested
142:01
in the
142:01
in the only democracy in the uh in the
142:04
middle east for bds materials
142:07
yeah i get arrested occasionally yeah
142:10
yeah i was giving a tour
142:11
in the malayan settlement and
142:14
in malaya we’re looking over jerusalem
142:17
and i and i talk about bds
142:20
and um um
142:23
yeah then the tour was over as a group
142:26
from the uk
142:27
and they got on their bus and left and i
142:29
decided i’m gonna go home on the public
142:31
bus so i got on the public bus
142:33
the police came stopped the bus took me
142:35
off
142:37
and arrested me for bdsing
142:41
and now i have a
142:45
secret weapon that is i have another son
142:47
whose name is ishai
142:49
who’s the editor of the english language
142:51
website of haaretz
142:53
oh wow what’s by the way if you want a
142:56
great source of information
142:58
read it’s in english yeah okay
143:01
but it’s worth it i know it’s annoying
143:03
can you what’s your what’s that son’s
143:05
name
143:07
be shy let’s see if we can maybe from
143:10
one helper to another you can give me a
143:12
free
143:12
uh thingy so i gotta rest in this that
143:15
is carly shy
143:17
did you say do you know who my son is
143:21
so uh that guy had a lot of publicity
143:24
and you know they let me go
143:25
i mean it wasn’t there was nothing
143:26
illegal to it and fact they got really
143:29
reprimanded by the justice department
143:31
because
143:32
it’s not illegal to talk about it at bds
143:35
but uh but it created a whole a whole
143:39
in other words it’s all grist for the
143:41
mill yeah you’re an activist you have to
143:43
really understand not just
143:45
when you get into trouble okay you know
143:48
that’s part of what you what
143:49
that’s part of what you do but how do
143:51
you leverage that
143:53
into more publicity in the more you know
143:56
and uh
143:57
every arrest and every hassle you know
144:00
shouldn’t just
144:00
end there it should become very very
144:03
public
144:04
right and that’s part of the strategy of
144:06
our husband
144:07
right yeah exactly yeah our husband yeah
144:10
it’s only illegal to be dds in the us
144:12
it’s true as we know from abby uh martin
144:15
right you’re right that’s right um all
144:17
right thank you so much jeff all right
144:18
thank you bye thank you all the people
144:21
listening yeah thanks yeah
144:22
okay talk to him great yes i
144:26
all right uh let me i don’t know how to
144:29
get off i’ll do this i know let’s see
144:31
oh there ah wait no how do i
144:35
oh i’ll just unselect you okay all right
144:38
guys that was great right
144:40
um oh yeah yeah we didn’t you
144:43
mentioned that the new york times it’s
144:46
not i
144:46
is it is it new york times person i
144:49
think the whole new york times office is
144:50
in a place that used to be
144:52
um someone can correct me but that used
144:56
to be
144:57
inhabited by palestinians um
145:00
anyway yeah so this is my early stream
145:03
today
145:04
you know i’m still not in new york city
145:06
i should go back but because i’m still
145:08
not in new york city i just scream all
145:09
the time
145:11
um uh
145:14
oh that was beyond great thank you yeah
145:16
that was good right
145:18
so i’ll figure i’ll have to figure it
145:20
out i’ll either um you guys i gotta push
145:22
the patreon a little bit come on all
145:23
this free stuff
145:25
patreon.com the katie helper show again
145:27
that’s patreon.com
145:28
the katie helper show um
145:31
what did you say katie or two well i’m
145:33
not gonna read it because uh
145:35
it’s not nice what you saw was excellent
145:37
are you jewish person who said that
145:40
what i saw was excellent david hi your
145:42
rig
145:43
your regular david lairfield lairfeld
145:46
are you jewish i’m just curious
145:48
um because it’s very uh what they saw
145:52
was excellent
145:54
um
145:57
okay um why would i go back well it’s
146:00
safe now in new york city right
146:03
do know why peter beinart came out
146:06
supporting one state solution new york
146:07
times roughly a year ago
146:08
i don’t know is that a trick question um
146:18
um
146:22
thank you for super sticker um
146:29
i’m a non-jewish binary human and
146:32
enjoyed it
146:33
from an american perspective there you
146:35
go
146:37
yeah jack’s been streaming a lot i gotta
146:38
get him back in um
146:41
let’s see
146:45
you should give me a review eagle hawk
146:48
condor
146:50
all right let’s see anything else um
146:54
he changed the position came forward
146:55
supporting one state not as a question
146:56
yeah i thought that was impressive
146:58
um i know you weren’t trying to be mean
147:00
that’s funny yeah um
147:03
uncle disclosed location yeah i can’t
147:04
tell people where i am
147:06
i didn’t realize that until someone was
147:08
like don’t say that
147:09
um katie halper how would you recommend
147:12
that we can spread the truth when so
147:13
many people will instantly use the bs
147:15
and the sentences and brand
147:16
how do you manage to get where you are i
147:18
mean i think honestly you should just
147:20
say
147:20
i stand like i keep saying this which is
147:22
that i know it’s probably oh wait
147:24
your first watch got you know what you
147:26
need to do then down with apartheid
147:28
israel
147:28
you gotta hit and everyone needs to do
147:30
this hit subscribe and to
147:32
because you don’t want to miss these
147:33
streams right so you hit subscribe
147:35
you do subscribe and then the bell okay
147:37
and then you’ll
147:38
know about them um
147:41
what kd what what fact uh katie that’s
147:44
true chris hedges just mentions that
147:45
same fact too which fact
147:47
my my point was that like the whole
147:50
argument about well two things ready i
147:53
have a couple points one is that
147:56
it’s anti-semitic to equate jewish
147:57
identity with blind support of israel
148:00
and um the other point that i make is
148:05
you know uh um
148:10
the whole argument about you’re not here
148:12
it’s complicated it’s not really
148:14
complicated from a human rights internet
148:16
like an international human rights
148:17
perspective for one
148:19
and uh it’s also it’s like if you have
148:23
if you have israelis and you have
148:26
um hold on a second i don’t usually
148:28
stream at this time so i don’t usually
148:30
overlap with
148:31
george galloway okay let me let me let
148:33
me let me let me uh
148:34
focus if you have israeli organizations
148:39
like bet selem saying
148:42
that uh israel is an apartheid state
148:47
then that’s it that whole argument about
148:50
it being like you know
148:52
uh israelis don’t you don’t know what’s
148:55
like to be israelites like okay i don’t
148:56
know what it’s like to be israeli and
148:58
i’ll stand with betselem they do know
149:00
what’s like to be israeli because they
149:01
are israeli
149:04
what’s this uh i’m telling you hit the
149:06
like button and didn’t get notified just
149:08
happened to see the stream of my sub
149:09
list yeah i don’t know well usually it’s
149:12
um uh it’s that
149:16
it’s evenings on uh seven
149:19
it’s 7 pm on thursdays and sundays but
149:21
i’ve been doing extra streams
149:22
have miko palette on rasheed khalidi oh
149:24
yeah i love you katie thank you mr
149:26
thirteen fng katie joe sacco would be a
149:30
cool guest in promoting his graphic
149:31
novels about palestine one of chris
149:32
hedges might be cultural and wishing for
149:34
views okay joe sacco i’ll write that
149:36
down
149:37
um who who said the
149:40
the the thing about um
149:43
what is the thing about um
149:48
what’s the chris hedges thing can
149:49
someone tell me who’s the person who
149:51
wrote that in there that he mentions
149:52
this fact
149:54
anyone
149:57
anyone can anyone where is that
150:03
i’m not in new michelle i’m two i’m over
150:06
two hours from the city
150:10
um
150:16
um anyone know
150:20
uh all right wait it’s coming soon
150:26
so that’s my question that’s my
150:27
suggestion about how to
150:30
wha okay what’s the fact here who wrote
150:32
that mr
150:33
13fng can you tell me what the fact is
150:35
cause i’m just curious
150:37
um
150:41
alright these are hurting my ears i need
150:43
better headphones that don’t do this
150:46
all right i guess i’ll never know oh
150:48
wait what’s the chris hedges thing
150:50
i’ll never know what’s the fact
150:53
oh my god yeah what is the fact can
150:55
anyone figure it out
151:06
oh he says that wait no this is this
151:08
true does he really say jeff is my dad
151:14
come on
151:19
okay i don’t know what you guys are
151:20
saying oh
151:22
oh i think he was talking about
151:23
washington post bureau chief living
151:25
palestinian clinton’s apartment got
151:30
yes actually that’s true katie halper if
151:31
you notice the coordinate campaign to
151:32
change the narrative to supposed
151:34
anti-submitted confrontations
151:35
and slogans over the past couple days
151:37
yes in fact i’m going to have a guest on
151:39
to talk about that
151:43
yeah i agree that uh that long island
151:45
well okay
151:46
um all right cool
151:49
thank you guys um true overhead yeah
151:55
um who’s ryan dawson everyone keeps
151:58
asking about this person i have no idea
152:00
who is
152:02
i’m gonna have a great
152:11
yeah i have noticed that
152:18
alrighty israelis don’t know what it’s
152:21
like to be palestinian is the problem
152:24
actually yeah i meant to play this while
152:25
yumna was on where is it she posted
152:28
something good
152:29
i mean oh where’s humanity because i
152:34
i promised that i would play this and i
152:37
didn’t so let me do that but first
152:39
here i’ll show this video
153:07
i was on the seed yes i need to have
153:09
sauna seed on let’s see
153:15
one second guys
153:21
who’s duolifa
153:25
who’s do alipa anyone know sorry it’s
153:27
like embarrassing she has
153:36
oh yeah
153:46
one second
153:50
okay here this is uh this is painful
153:53
who who who made this tick tock did you
153:57
all right let me show you this what
154:00
they’re experiencing
154:02
all right
154:07
she’s albanian but what does she do
154:18
yeah again i i mean i literally put that
154:20
in my bio today that we’re not related
154:21
not that i
154:22
uh that’s there’s anything wrong wait
154:25
but why did what did do a lipa do did
154:27
she do something with um
154:29
oh and who call them anti-semites i’ll
154:32
go i’ll have to make a list of them
154:35
to you know redeem um
154:38
okay what was i looking for oh okay
154:47
everyone follow you know if you’re uh
154:48
not already
154:53
yeah i’ll try to have them on okay i
154:55
will try to have roger what’s going on
154:57
okay talk to two ten-year-olds about
155:01
what they’re experiencing
155:02
one israeli and one palestinian nadine
155:05
abdultev has become the face of gaza’s
155:07
children i’m only 10.
155:09
after going viral in this video posted
155:11
online
155:12
cbs news met nadine near her
155:14
neighborhood which is now in bruins
155:16
i want to feel safe for like one day at
155:19
least
155:20
i never feel safe in my own home what’s
155:23
it like
155:24
in your house it’s very scary
155:27
renault swizzle lives in southern israel
155:30
just a few miles away from gaza
155:32
she gets scared every time hamas rockets
155:35
are fired near her home
155:36
she says she knows what she experiences
155:38
is nothing compared to what nadine does
155:41
and when we asked her what she’d say to
155:42
her if they were to ever meet
155:44
i wouldn’t say laughing that just was i
155:47
just hugged her
155:49
and tell her that i know what you feel
155:54
i thought instead said that she didn’t
155:56
understand what she felt talk to two
155:57
ten-year-olds about what they’re
155:58
experiencing
155:59
anyway so then uh yuma writes
156:04
uh human rights maybe they’ll meet
156:08
at a military checkpoint if needing even
156:09
gets to leave gaza when ranana
156:12
turns 18 and becomes a soldier occupying
156:13
needings land or one in eight years
156:15
renault is in the air force and calls
156:17
nadine
156:17
to let her know her house is going to be
156:18
bombed again yeah this is uh
156:21
this is awful this video of um let me
156:24
just show this
156:26
uh what’s her name nadine right let’s
156:28
see
156:29
it’s this is an awful video but everyone
156:31
should watch this it’s
156:37
i keep thinking this this keyboard in
156:40
front of me is
156:41
nadine
156:45
okay here this is just
157:05
uh we don’t need the music though let’s
157:06
see
157:12
this again if she were israeli this
157:13
would be all over
157:16
the media okay on
157:20
oh i’m already sharing it did you guys
157:22
hear the audio hold on
157:40
i’m always sick amongst i don’t know i
157:42
can’t do anything
157:45
of this what do you expect me to do
157:48
fix it i’m only 10.
157:52
i can’t even do anything in this more i
157:55
just want to be a doctor
157:56
or anything to help my people my cat
158:00
i’m just pissed i don’t even know what
158:04
to do
158:06
i get scared but not really that much i
158:09
get
158:10
i do anything for my people but i don’t
158:12
know what to do i’m just 10.
158:15
understand
158:18
all of this when i see i will cherry cry
158:21
every day
158:23
saying to myself why do we deserve this
158:25
why
158:26
what did we do to this
158:29
my family said they just they just hate
158:31
us they just don’t like us because we
158:33
are muslims
158:34
why does muslims act for you like that
158:40
you see all of the kids around me
158:41
they’re just kids why wouldn’t you just
158:44
send a message to them and kill them
158:47
it’s not fair it’s not fair
158:53
yeah i mean it’s like overwhelming it’s
158:57
heartbreaking and also there have been
158:59
all these kids who were like in trauma
159:01
programs
159:03
that uh were killed
159:06
like all these organizations that did
159:08
stuff for like working with
159:10
kids and helping them trying to help
159:11
them with trauma
159:13
can you imagine you work like met just
159:15
imagine that and all these other things
159:17
of like people who were
159:18
featured in like you know they were
159:21
persecuted by
159:22
the israeli uh
159:26
military you know like locked up for
159:28
whatever reason as aliyah bonima points
159:30
out
159:30
i think israel is like the only country
159:33
that
159:34
i should look this up
159:37
hold on israel it’s like the only
159:39
country that [ __ ]
159:41
let me see let me see if he’s up
160:18
um i don’t know it’s like the only
160:20
country that like
160:22
it’s not that tries kids because
160:25
uh
160:28
because the us does that too they lock
160:31
up kids as adults is that what it is
160:33
yeah does anyone have any footage of
160:34
this of the continued um
160:38
uh harassment
160:42
also there’s this video of um
160:46
hold on what is it um
160:50
hold on
160:58
oh hold on
161:02
there was a fishbowl they had their
161:03
fishbowl uh palestine uh what is a gaza
161:08
[Music]
161:14
fish
161:16
anyone watching speak arabic
161:21
hold on these all these things really
161:23
need to be subtitled
161:26
um i mean what am i like yeah obviously
161:28
people have uh
161:30
they saved their fish all i know is they
161:31
saved their hold on
161:33
oh i found a subtitled one this is also
161:36
heartbreaking
161:37
um and this isn’t like tragedy porn it’s
161:40
just that
161:41
uh i think it’s important to show these
161:42
things because
161:45
palestinians are so dehumanized oh you
161:48
do okay i found a
161:49
um obviously uh okay
161:53
and it’s like i mean it is i’m not
161:55
romanticizing it at all but it is like
161:57
incredible how resilient people are and
162:00
i keep saying this i’ll probably get
162:01
arrested for saying this i’m not saying
162:03
this to sound tough or like
162:04
oh daring point but i really am
162:07
um surprised that there isn’t more
162:12
of mo i mean i don’t know how people
162:13
deal with this without engaging in
162:15
certain behavior that’s illegal
162:17
okay that’s not a call for anything i’m
162:20
just saying
162:21
that it’s surprise it legit surprises me
162:24
that’s
162:24
that’s what i’m saying i’m not just
162:26
saying that also to knock in trouble
162:28
it’s my real thoughts okay
162:29
let me make sure i have the audio on for
162:38
this
162:47
[Music]
162:52
cute that girl oh i didn’t know they
162:54
talk about resilience
162:55
[Music]
162:58
she looks a lot like my mom did his
163:00
little kids
163:15
anyway that’s kind of amazing
163:20
um uh someone pointed out and it’s true
163:22
actually someone should make this
163:24
a side by side does anyone notice um
163:27
how much um
163:34
oh this is nice this is so nice katie i
163:36
think you authentically have the most
163:38
progressive morally inhumane approach to
163:40
the issue you do this by including
163:41
humanitarianism thanks
163:43
um what was i just saying
163:50
no i hadn’t seen that video when i said
163:51
the brazilians think for real i hadn’t
163:52
seen it
163:53
so um half of gaza is kids yeah it’s
163:57
awful
163:58
i mean
164:02
uh okay brad just sent me something this
164:04
is okay yeah this is pretty amazing hold
164:06
on
164:08
i wonder if we could side by side it and
164:10
uh we could in a couple minutes but for
164:12
now i’m just gonna show it
164:16
hold on uh can you screen grab you
164:19
how do i do this
164:22
how do i upload this someone needs to do
164:24
a thing a side by side of
164:26
um oh i know what i’ll do i know what i
164:28
can do i know what i can do
164:30
check out the four-part exam the israel
164:32
lobby in america at the electronic and
164:33
default al jazeera fb
164:35
and youtube had to take it down thanks
164:36
to israel right i know what this is
164:39
i know what i can do here hold on
164:43
i download the thingy and then i drag it
164:46
into a window
164:49
that’s what i did hold on
164:57
okay i export it
165:02
you know what i should just do it right
165:04
now and preview
165:12
i mean this is really good but it’s fun
165:14
i mean this doesn’t even capture
165:15
their resemblance but hold on one second
165:17
because there are other shots of her it
165:18
does but
165:19
sorry i sound like such a complainer
165:21
hold on
165:24
all right
165:36
if i had more time i’d do something
165:37
really nice in canva or something but
165:45
one second
165:56
thanks again thank you to brad for this
166:16
it is actually pretty stunning the
166:17
resemblance you’ll see what i’m talking
166:19
about one second
166:30
i learned this really cool trick that
166:31
people probably know which is that you
166:33
can just drag
166:34
an image i think i’m hopeful i’m right
166:36
into a um
166:39
into a window like a chrome window and
166:41
it just becomes like
166:42
a url
167:06
export
167:15
okay excuse me
167:23
let me see is this how you doing okay
167:32
yeah
167:34
so this is a side by side of nadine and
167:37
anne frank
167:38
that um i think humanities or it was
167:42
humanities or
167:43
um or um
167:52
or chomsky video
168:00
um
168:03
this one too yeah
168:13
yeah humanity requested it i
168:16
see here he or she here no right
168:33
yeah i just need to wear headphones that
168:35
are little and fit near
168:42
here’s another one
168:47
there’s another one again thanks to brad
168:50
um
168:59
yeah so thanks to humanity
169:02
for that and um i don’t know what this
169:06
i’m not gonna respond to something about
169:08
uh
169:11
um
169:19
what is that yeah that’s anne frank and
169:20
nadine um
169:23
from gaza
169:26
um
169:34
so we in the western media world have to
169:36
speak english speaking
169:38
mountain
169:45
oh yeah does anyone have um does anyone
169:48
have
169:49
oh that’s very nice of you i hope you
169:52
know
169:52
what an essential job you were doing and
169:54
the difference you were making thank you
169:56
people watching
169:57
we’ll remember these facts you were
169:58
sharing for the rest of their lives and
170:00
tell others that’s very nice um
170:04
um tweet what out i will tweet this
170:08
out uh what was i gonna say oh does
170:11
anyone have any any
170:12
um
170:15
uh any twitter of uh i mean any image
170:19
sorry does anyone have any footage of
170:23
any links to footage any tweets
170:26
uh that
170:29
are that show a lot of stuff let me look
170:34
for
170:56
what’s today’s date it’s uh now it’s the
170:59
late
170:59
uh oh let’s see
171:03
okay okay this is from sunday oh you
171:05
don’t have to have it it’s omar
171:08
omar gotta have him out back on from
171:11
i’m eu okay so this is
171:14
um recent
171:27
this is from a very good resource
171:28
everyone should be following middle east
171:29
i and then imeu should be following too
171:32
all right
171:36
israeli settlers flanked by security
171:37
forces stormed the courtyards of al-aqsa
171:39
on sunday earlier israeli police
171:40
reportedly arrested at least six
171:41
palestinian worshipers
171:43
the palestinian farm ministry condemned
171:44
the move saying it was aimed at
171:46
provoking worshipers
171:47
yeah okay
171:49
[Music]
171:50
jesus christ
172:06
[Music]
172:12
uh
172:17
[Music]
172:40
so
172:41
[Music]
172:48
[Music]
172:52
[Applause]
172:56
uh i realize in case we do turn this
172:58
into audio only um
173:00
i’ll read out loud what it says a group
173:02
of israeli settlers flanked by armed
173:03
israeli security forces stormed the
173:05
courtyards of al-aqsa mosque on sunday
173:08
earlier israeli police reportedly
173:10
attacked palestinian worshippers
173:12
arresting six of them according to local
173:14
media
173:16
oh my god oh they were kneeling on that
173:17
guy’s head by the way very george floyd
173:19
derek chovin wow
173:22
worshipers under the age of 45 were also
173:24
reportedly
173:26
prevented from entering the mosque
173:30
amid titan security measures at the
173:32
gates
173:34
the christian islamic organization for
173:35
support of jerusalem said this reflects
173:38
quote israel’s insistent and quote i’m
173:39
violating the sanctity of the moscow
173:41
chapels
173:41
and its insistence on increasing tension
173:43
in the city
173:46
the palestinian foreign ministry said
173:50
the actions of the settlers were aimed
173:51
at provoking worshipers
173:54
and showed a disregard for efforts made
173:55
to establish calm
173:58
since 2003 israel has allowed settlers
174:00
into al-aqsa mosque
174:02
uh sorry complex
174:06
under the protection of israeli security
174:08
forces
174:10
overriding the authority of the islamic
174:11
endowment department
174:14
all right that’s nice pretty on brand
174:18
all right anyway um i think this was uh
174:21
let’s see
174:21
did joanne nayeri the jewish people
174:23
showed the same resilience as
174:24
palestinians when they were persecuted
174:26
by the fascist
174:28
um
174:32
uh
174:38
no i did not see this uh
174:42
kd you should watch the pro palestinian
174:44
pro-israeli rallies in canada where the
174:47
thick accented pro-israeli told the
174:48
pro-palestinians to go back to palestine
174:50
right but i thought
174:52
uh that country doesn’t exist
174:55
um cody wolf child says as american
175:01
uh indians we know we can’t fight back
175:03
with rockets like hamas but the same
175:05
american attitude
175:06
that condemns hamas military keeps our
175:09
eyes off why we
175:10
won’t let natives sue for land title
175:15
um anyway
175:20
okay well thank you guys so much for
175:23
watching um
175:25
uh my mondo voice description okay i’ll
175:29
fix that
175:30
but thanks for watching guys make sure
175:32
you subscribe
175:34
subscribe share like the stream that’s
175:36
so it’s so easy
175:37
um and uh
175:41
what else um
175:45
what else um please consider becoming
175:49
becoming patreon supporters and in fact
175:51
let me read the patreon supporters i got
175:53
so far
175:54
okay cool so i want to thank nazeel
175:59
i want to thank uh oh sunny days kind of
176:03
uh um and i want to thank james i want
176:07
to thank
176:07
andrew yeah
176:11
what else who else let’s see
176:14
guys you have the chance if you want i
176:16
can read your names on screen
176:21
okay i want to thank uh if you if you
176:23
donate now
176:24
uh i want to thank james b
176:27
i want to thank um
176:32
duncan i want to thank andrew j
176:36
i want to thank catherine i want to
176:38
thank douglas
176:41
i want to thank nabeel i want to thank
176:47
colton yuri omar
176:51
sung philip fancy
176:56
callie m jack
176:59
sephora a wise david
177:02
s skiaboo
177:06
commandante
177:13
um
177:18
tony s for upping it uh gabriel
177:22
ross oops i try not to and p
177:28
sam e
177:44
sarah b
177:50
billy gene carl
177:54
fawad
177:58
ebb casey spencer david
178:03
these aren’t all from today these are
178:04
from last week a seem
178:07
cinema
178:11
i’m not gonna i’m not gonna unthank
178:13
people who edit it down
178:18
c cory p
178:21
ken a
178:29
johnny s for upping it
178:34
suzanne
178:40
stefan
178:43
kathy lewis for the upgrade
178:47
um
178:51
excuse me um goalie
179:08
austin jen i’m going back to early may
179:12
uh william j michael w
179:20
liam did i do this already i think maybe
179:22
i did
179:25
fetish magic jonathan b
179:30
muhammad e yeah i did these before so
179:32
everyone thank you so much
179:35
and um yeah whoa
179:38
thank you landrieu landrieu for this
179:41
very kind donation
179:42
wow uh
179:46
let me see thank you frodo for the super
179:48
sticker
179:50
thank you
179:54
look at that wow i really appreciate
179:56
that land room big time
180:03
um let’s see uh katie and all eddie
180:06
edit 77 is the number one instagram
180:09
account for the latest reports on the
180:10
ground he’s always on
180:11
okay i’ll show that stuff um
180:17
let’s see if i got any right now
180:20
oh man i want one more ah that’s too
180:23
much pressure anyway
180:25
i gotta pet it go i got an email from
180:27
dig i don’t even know why i did it says
180:28
pedeco so that’s what i’m gonna do
180:29
pedeco
180:31
all right guys thank you so much again
180:33
thank you so much uh especially to
180:35
everyone especially
180:36
uh landrieu landrieu um
180:40
okay
180:46
i mean i think hamas should stop firing
180:49
rockets because
180:50
they’re just not because there aren’t
180:52
justified but because
180:53
these are grown men letting children die
180:55
in gaza without any chance of advancing
180:56
the palestinian objectives
180:58
i mean you could easily argue it’s not
180:59
why strategically i think though that
181:01
like that shouldn’t be
181:04
the focus of our discussion and uh you
181:08
know like
181:11
uh what else uh
181:15
seeker mel thank you so much
181:31
um yeah i think that’s it right
181:35
it is true frankelstein said
181:39
uh if you don’t have them nobody cares
181:41
there are people there actually you know
181:43
who said that
181:45
for real is betzelem
181:48
remember uh hagai he wrote that piece
181:52
where um thank you he wrote that piece
181:55
about that in washington post which i
181:57
read with um
181:59
with norm on normazon and in fact i made
182:01
a clip out of it
182:03
um so yeah
182:08
um yeah thank you save sharik
182:12
um and thank you again seeker mel
182:16
and thank you official video youtube
182:20
yeah um all right
182:23
so yeah i think i’ll see you guys soon
182:26
again as i said i’m adding these extra
182:28
streams because what is this enable kd
182:31
via patreon as well
182:32
like and subscribe yeah enable me do
182:34
please any i want i need some enablers
182:37
um i’m just gonna i do appreciate that
182:42
um some really weird
182:45
uh analogies in there um
182:50
okay so i’ll see you guys later um
182:53
make sure you check on the stream so
182:55
that you make sure you check
182:56
uh you know
182:59
subscribe
183:05
okay yeah the tuesday isn’t going to
183:07
happen
183:09
um all right bye everyone