url: https://youtu.be/ZJe4NlOjAJo

  • Timothy Snyder Speaks, ep. 11: Much More Than Collusion

    08:02
    we then see some tactics which are very
    revealing about what Russia will do with
    mr. Trump against the United States of
    America so let me give you some examples
    of some tactics the first is a head of
    state who simply denies reality what I
    call in the book in plausible
    deniability so when mr. Putin sends the
    Russian army to invade Ukraine he simply
    denies that he’s doing so
    which is a
    little bit unusual but it’s a tactic
    because if you stand up and you deny
    something that every reporter knows is
    true
    you put the profession of journalism and
    indeed the whole media into a difficult
    position
    because on the one hand you
    could actually cover the facts of the
    war which we are as money and effort and
    it’s risky on the other hand you can
    cover this fantastically charismatic
    leader who seems to have mazing power to
    bend real
    to his will who can deny factuality
    itself who can turn reality into a
    television show that’s very tempting and
    that’s what most of the Western media
    actually did
    instead of covering an
    actually existing war in the real world
    people preferred to watch a reality
    television show
    where a head of state basically created
    an alternative world
    now that should
    sound familiar
    because that is of course how mr. Trump
    also governs he’s a head of state who
    constantly generates unreality thereby
    forcing reporters into this impossible
    choice do you do you get into the the
    television drama or do you actually
    cover real issues which in the u.s.
    would be things like wealth inequality
    opioid abuse and and so on a second
    example of a tactic in Ukraine which is
    also now very familiar in the u.s. is
    what I call in the book cacophony that
    is something happens it’s out of your
    control because where you don’t control
    everything by lying about it something
    happens it’s out of your control and the
    way you react to it is you throw a whole
    bunch of fictions around it so that
    nobody’s then really sure what’s
    actually happened
    so in the Russian
    invasion of Ukraine this is mh17 this is
    the civilian airliner which Russian
    forces shot down over Ukraine while they
    were invading the country so what the
    Russian media does is when this happens
    this as it were irreducibly real thing
    happens people die you attack it not by
    directly denying it but from the flags
    you come up with a whole bunch of
    different versions like Ukrainians did
    it by accident trying to shoot down mr.
    Putin’s airplane the Ukrainians did it
    because a certain Ukrainian Jewish
    oligarch controls the airways Ukrainians
    said it by accident from the ground NATO
    did it from the air you come up with a
    whole bunch of different variants none
    of which you can pretend have any
    factual basis but they serve as a kind
    of discursive shrapnel they just cloud
    everything up and at the end of the day
    and I mean literally at the end of that
    day because this starts on the day the
    plane is shot down at the end of the day
    no one is exactly sure what’s going on
    and no initial who’s responsible even
    for this very simple thing so in the
    yes this happens during mr. Trump’s
    campaign during the Access Hollywood
    incident remember for a moment for half
    an hour everybody thought that Access
    Hollywood the tape where mr. Trump
    advocates sexually assaulting women that
    this would end his campaign mr. Trump
    seemed to think that mr. pence seemed to
    think it the Democrats seem to think it
    the commentary it seemed to think it why
    didn’t that happen it didn’t happen
    because half an hour after that tape was
    released Russian BOTS and Russian trolls
    and others began to spread other
    versions fictions like Hillary Clinton
    is a pimp who sells sex with children or
    John Podesta takes part in wild rituals
    where he consumes human bodily fluids
    and those things although completely
    fictional surround the real event which
    is mr. Trump thinks that it’s okay to
    sexually assault women and confuse it to
    the point where no one knows what
    actually happened and in a way the whole
    Access Hollywood event never takes place
    because it never actually reaches the
    people that it’s supposed to reach now
    we experience that as a weird American
    event Access Hollywood seemed it was
    going to matter and then suddenly didn’t
    matter at all
    what I’m trying to explain here is that
    if we keep in mind the whole background
    the Russian philosophy about fiction
    ality the Russian strategy about
    strategic relativism and Russian tactics
    which involved this kind of discursive
    and propagandistic trick it all makes a
    whole lot more sense it all it all falls
    into place and and this is in a way a
    plea for history right because what
    history allows us to do a history even
    of the 2010s of recent events allows us
    to do is get out of this daily news
    cycle where we’re how we think about
    this framed in terms of the way our
    leaders wanted to be framed collusion
    not collusion um you know so what what
    the book then does in the end is it runs
    through 2016 with all of this in the
    background and so we’re not surprised
    then to see that mr. Trump only exists
    at all as a public figure
    thanks to Russian money from the 1990s
    and the 2000s
    people often ask I mean could did Rush
    and influential II make a difference
    well think about it this way if Russian
    money and I go into this in great length
    13:28
    in the book doesn’t rescue mr. Trump who
    13:31
    is a total failure as a real estate
    13:32
    developer if Russian money doesn’t
    13:34
    rescue him he doesn’t even exist as a
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    public figure there’s no logical
    13:38
    possibility that he could have become
    13:39
    president without Russia and then the
    13:42
    next step is we think about the
    13:43
    personnel whether it’s Man afford or
    13:45
    Papadopoulos or Flynn or Kushner or Ross
    13:49
    it’s astonishing on the extent to which
    13:52
    the people around mr. Trump were morally
    13:55
    politically and financially connected to
    13:57
    the Russian Federation nothing like that
    13:58
    has ever happened before and then of
    14:00
    course when we get to the campaign
    14:01
    during 2016 Democrats and Republicans
    14:04
    alike marveled at the fact that mr.
    14:06
    Trump didn’t seem to have a traditional
    14:07
    campaign but what he did have was all
    14:11
    kinds of support from the rear for all
    14:13
    kinds of support in the world of cyber
    14:15
    the public opinion polls were in favor
    14:17
    of Secretary Clinton but the bots were
    14:20
    decidedly
    14:20
    on on the side of mr. Trump and that
    14:23
    turns out to matter whether it’s Russian
    14:26
    intelligence agencies hacking and
    14:28
    leaking emails as I mentioned or whether
    14:30
    it’s Russia’s internet research agency
    14:32
    working in social media to figure out
    14:34
    what what frightens and what motivates
    14:37
    America and going on a social media
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    offensive from September to early
    14:41
    November of 2016
    14:43
    either way mr. Trump had a campaign
    14:45
    which wasn’t his he was in a way just
    14:48
    kind of going along for the ride so the
    14:50
    idea that mr. Trump colluded doesn’t
    14:53
    really make a lot of sense because he
    14:55
    wasn’t an equal partner mr. Trump was
    14:57
    not an equal and this is the thing that
    14:59
    Americans I think we have really a hard
    15:01
    time understanding because we want to be
    15:02
    number one you know we’re in the worst
    15:04
    case we want to be cooperating with
    15:05
    someone else in this case there’s not
    15:06
    we’re not number one um we’re not
    15:09
    cooperate in this case we’re just being
    15:11
    brought along mr. Trump is just being
    15:13
    brought along he’s not capable of
    15:16
    colluding he’s not an important of
    15:18
    person to collude with the Russian
    15:20
    Federation he’s an instrument he’s a
    15:23
    tactic that makes sense with the
    15:25
    strategy
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    he’s an instrument that makes sense with
    15:28
    the philosophy in light of all that it
    15:30
    makes sense at the end of the day mr.
    15:33
    Trump can’t collude mr. Trump is the
    15:36
    pelo
    15:36
    of a Russian cyber weapon the payload of
    15:39
    a weapon doesn’t collude it just does
    15:42
    damage