Krystal and Saagar break down the string of law enforcement failures during the Uvalde shooting that were initially lied about by local police who refused to confront the gunman to save children’s lives
This is what is known as “officer safety clause” that allows you, the citizen, to be less than important. If this was the state itself being attacked the call to go would have been made instantly.“We may test the hypothesis that the State is largely interested in protecting itself rather than its subjects by asking: which category of crimes does the State pursue and punish most intensely – those against private citizens or those against itself?” – Murray RothbardHere is my honest take: this is why gun sales are up. Citizens realize that the police really cannot protect them. Yes, they can respond and secure a perimeter, but they cant stop it. As people watch situations like this/riots (and the inability/unwillingness for police stop it) then families are going to prepare for the unthinkable.I worked over 25 years in a variety of psychiatric hospitals and mental health clinics where we all had “panic alarms” in our offices. If a threatening or dangerous situation occured with a client one would hit the panic alarm and it was the job of every staff member to drop what they were doing and head to that office and open the door to make sure the colleague and clinets behind that door were safe. We had many clients who were drug addicts and dealers, domestic violence perps, criminals, people involved in divorce etc. We had no special training, weapons or body armor, yet we opened those doors, to make sure everyone was safe. Was it risky and scary? Damn straight, but it was our job and duty and we did it.
It really got to me when Krystal mentioned that the girl was still breathing… It’s impossible to imagine being in that situation, never mind at such a young age. I just hope the survivors get the support they are owed and can find some way to live the rest of their lives with as much joy as possible.Re: Nassar investigation. Law enforcement cannot be held legally responsible for not, botching, or otherwise ineptly investigating crimes. Citizens, however, are routinely criminally charged for “interfering” with a police investigation.If so many cops are afraid to go in help protect those kids and teachers, they should not be in that line of work. They can’t be just giving out traffic tickets and having coffee to collect their paycheques.A few days ago in West Virginia, a civilian woman with a gun took down an active shooter on her own, yet cops can’t do the same smhWe knew it’s finally here, https://youtu.be/n72kkazUgAs..The school was 4 minutes from the nearest police station and it took them 14 minutes to get there…to a mass shooting where kids were being executed point blank. Let that sit before you even think about them being to scared to enter the buildingThey never have a problem breaking down a door to murder a harmless pot dealer. But when they want the carnage to support their gun confiscation agenda, it becomes a problem.This made me cry, I’m a 25 year old man. I haven’t cried in a long while, but I would have given my life for those kids. We are supposed to protect our youth, we failed them as a society. Those poor kid’s, I can’t imagine the level of fear. This is a disgrace, my heart is heavy with grief. You can’t explain the shooting, and it hurts when you here that some psycho does something like this. But when you hear that the people who volunteer to protect and serve, fail to stop this as fast as possible. How could you make the assumption that everyone is dead in a classroom, when you’re 500 yards outside the school. Thanks for letting me shout my feelings into the void, try and spread love. If you’re a brave young man like myself, we should consider becoming police. I’m thinking about, much love.I said it once , and I’ll say it an million times; law enforcement has the proper training, they pick and choose when to act, when to abuse citizens, or properly apprehend someone.The story about the little girl smothering herself in her classmate’s blood & pretend to be dead… just speechlesswhy bother with the door as I imagine the classroom would have had windows, there is no answer to any question that will be accepted and all of those who stood about should be fired at the very least but when you promote ass kissers into positions of authority this is what happensFresh reminder that the authorities protect themselves and their buddies. They don’t protect you, only you can protect yourself.as an infantryman I can tell you there is ZERO point in listening to talking heads regarding shootings. 95% of people have no idea what they’re saying. including krystal and saagar. even though i love themMy dad made a good point to me. How can they insist on taking our guns and then have people like this as our only protection?They were brave enough to hold the parents back.School district had it’s own police. Sounds familiar, like when the Alaska Economic Development Board made the comment, “No school district is responsible enough to have a high pressure steam boiler.” School district circumvented board and got one anyway, and immediately proved the board correct. Is any school district responsible enough to have it’s own police?So all those sherrifs and federal agents stood around for an hour because a school cop told them to? Too bad there wasn’t a mall cop on scene to take over and tell them to go in.I think the cops’ mistake was they treated the situation like it was a hostage crisis. They assumed that the suspect’s motive was to take hostages and make demands, not take lives. So instead of trying to take down the suspect ASAP, they focused more on securing/barricading the area until more backup arrives.I don’t expect law enforcement to be perfect. And I don’t expect them necessarily to save everyone. But I sure expect them to do something responsive that they think might work to resolve the situation, quickly, in situations like that. I can understand taking a minute or two, or even five minutes, to put together a breach plan of some sorts. But standing around for an hour? WTF!?As a retired volunteer FF, interior attack and vehicle extracations, I knew there would be risks, yet still made the decision to do it…. And there was definite pucker factor too, especially during traffic control, almost got it several times….Former prosecutor from that area had a tweet . said something like after years of working with those law enforcement agencies of Uvalde she can tell you that you will never know the truth about what happened until you can see videos of the Incident. Very telling and not so uncommon.
It remains an open secret that police domestic abuse is a widespread and deeply entrenched problem.
The consequences of police violence are indelible. It impacts communities large and small nationwide. Large because police violence is seen publicly, small because research data suggests a connection between police violence on the job and police domestic violence at home. Indeed, cops and domestic violence have a strong relationship. As Black Lives Matter protests happened last summer, video after video showed law enforcement going after unarmed civilians — shoving, punching, using tear gas, rubber bullets, and in some cases, using live ammunition against civilian populations. What wasn’t seen was what cops do at home.
In Louisville, local businessman and community leader David McAtee was shot and killed by law enforcement at a protest over the killing of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. Add that to the fact that, so often, police can get away with nearly murder, accountability and justice in the public sphere, and in the private sphere, when police domestic violence happens in the home, doesn’t seem achievable.
There are those who argue that the police can be trusted always to act in the public interest, protecting and serving the innocent. Surely many do, but research into the private lives of cops suggests that that faith in the restraint of police officers on the job is founded at least in part on men who abuse their wives and children. And what percent of cops are domestic abusers is conspicuously quite high.
Though data on police domestic violence is not only notoriously difficult to gather but also skewed by a culture of silence and intimidation, it suggests that police officers in the United States perpetrate acts of domestic violence at roughly 15 times the rate of the general population. Because officers tend to protect their own, domestic victims of violent cops often don’t know where to go. Sometimes they reach out to Alex Roslin, author of Police Wife: The Secret Epidemic of Police Domestic Violence, the American Society of Journalists and Authors-award-winning book that constitutes perhaps the only major work on this subject.
“I get emails that would make your hair crawl,” says Roslin, a Canadian freelance journalist who came to the issue two decades ago after a friend working with survivors of abuse informed him police wives and biker gang spouses constituted the bulk of her patient population, suggesting a hidden epidemic of police domestic abuse.
Indeed, police domestic abuse, Roslin points out, is an open secret. In 1991, sociologist Leonor Johnson presented to the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee on Children, Youth and Families, suggesting that 360,000 of the then 900,000 law enforcement officers in the U.S. were likely perpetrating acts of abuse. After a Los Angeles Police Department officer murdered his wife and committed suicide in the late 1990s, a review of domestic abuse allegations brought against officers showed that between 1990 and 1997, 227 alleged cases of domestic violence were brought against police officers, only 91 were sustained and only four resulted in the conviction of criminal charges. Of the four convictions, only one officer was suspended from duty. He was asked to take three weeks off.
For many, cops remain heroes. But the law enforcement culture lionized by reactionaries is also a culture of silence antithetical to the values of most partners and parents. Fatherly spoke to Alex Roslin about the extent of the police domestic violence problem and why it persists.
The numbers in your book are absolutely shocking. In particular, the number 15 is shocking. You support the claim that abuse is roughly 15 times more pervasive within police families than in the general population. Where does that come from?
The major study here was done by a police officer and a sociologist in Tucson, Arizona, working with a collaborator who had studied domestic violence in military families. It wasn’t by the police department officially. That study found that 40 percent of cops reported having participated in domestic violence in the previous year. The researchers questioned spouses and officers separately with anonymous questions and came up with strikingly similar figures.
An FBI advisory board later found that roughly 40 percent of officers who filled out questionnaires in a number of different settings admitted to being physically violent with their spouse in the previous six months. The general population data for self-reported abuse is closer to 4 percent when people are asked to report on the last 12 months.
The numbers are higher for cops who work night shifts.
It’s worth noting that the sample sizes are a bit small and that these are older studies. Given the potential scale of the crisis, it’s bizarre that there wouldn’t be more available numbers.
The 40 percent number is the closest I could figure while trying to do an apple to apple comparison. We know for sure that the rate of domestic violence among cops from the little data we have is ridiculously high. We know that thanks to research done in part by police officers, some of whom suggest that number might be low. So we wind up with cops being around 15 times more likely to engage in domestic violence than members of the general population. [Editor’s Note: The comparison here is based on 1.5 to 4 percent of U.S. and Canadian women reporting domestic violence by a partner and an estimate that 6 to 14 percent of children are abused each year. These numbers vary because data is based largely on incidents and self-reporting.]
We should consider why the data is nonexistent or decades old. Why is no one looking at a massive issue of public interest? I’ve been working on updating my book for a third edition. Doing research I’ve found 40 examples of cops in the United States murdering their spouses. That’s over just three years.
Is there data available on the children of cops? Is there any reason to believe that abuse doesn’t extend beyond partner violence?
Sadly, I’ve seen no data on that, but anecdotally… I’ve heard a lot of stories. It’s not just police partners that face abuse. It’s children. There have been a lot of reports of that and it makes sense.
It’s a broad question, but unavoidable: Why is this happening?
Abuse is an open secret among police officers. Many officers claim that it’s the result of a stressful job. But in my research and in talking to domestic violence researchers, it becomes clear that stress doesn’t really cause abuse. There are lots of stressful jobs. Paramedics and surgeons and firefighters don’t have this kind of problem.
The more honest officers will tell you that policing is a job about control — controlling people and controlling chaotic environments. It attracts people with that mentality and that desire. Not all police officers are the same, but the more authoritarian police officers are the more likely they are to be violent at home.
These men aren’t losing control. They are maintaining control. That’s different.
That’s a disturbing idea because it suggests a strong connection between domestic violence and public violence. Do you see a strong link there?
The reality is that police are being put into places in society where they are supposed to be in control, but we have both movements toward recognizing the rights of more groups — notably women and minorities — and also more inequality than ever. Maintaining control in that environment becomes extremely taxing. My fear is that this is trending the wrong way. When police are protecting this kind of status quo, you’re going to see more domestic violence, not less.
The inequalities of society force us to empower the police. And that empowerment results in the hiring of abusers. Police domestic violence is a mirror held up to our society. Who polices an unequal and violent society?
Are there causes beyond the desire for control? It feels like that impulse would be tempered by the proximity of… law enforcement officers. Is it not?
No. Cops get away with it. Anthony Bouza, a one-time commander in the New York Police Department and former police chief of Minneapolis, said that ‘The Mafia never enforced its code of blood-sworn omerta with the ferocity, efficacy, and enthusiasm the police bring to the Blue Code of Silence.” That’s reflected in the rates at which violence is reported and the degree to which there are consequences.
What happens to partners abused by the police?
In general, these women are terrified. Normally, domestic violence survivors are not in a good place. But these women know the cop has a gun and knows how to commit violence without leaving a mark and they say, “Everyone will think you’re crazy.” And she can’t necessarily go to a shelter because he knows where they are.
Some of these women contact me. I’m a freelance journalist in Canada. I’m happy to do what I can to help, but why is there no one else?
You’re a father. What do you tell your kids about the police? How do you talk to them about law enforcement given what you know and given your work?
My daughters know what I do. They know what I’m writing about. My wife has two uncles who are retired officers. We live in a small town and a former police officer is now the mayor and lives down the street. Police officers are humans. At the same time, my kids know that there is a darker side to policing.
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Research suggests that family violence is two to four times higher in the law-enforcement community than in the general population. So where’s the public outrage?
Mt. juliet police department
- The reason that police officer asked you to get out of your car was a power trip and it made his ego feel bigger.
- This gentleman just exposed what the public is up against and certainly is NOT the treatment we pay for. The fact that this supervisor can NOT be honest just further highlights the problem with cops.
- As soon as a cop says, this isn’t a courtroom. You’ve proved they have no case.
- Really good way he went about doing this, instead of arguing with the supervisor he told him to talk to the cop who didn’t explain to him what he did wrong. This is a perfect interrogation question.
- There was no reason for this man to get out of his car for a simple traffic stop. This supervisor is covering for this cop
- The cop was angry because you used your rights to not talk and to record. So he had to do a power play and pull you out of the car. The cops can’t explain it any other way. Because we can….FTP
- You decided to exercise your right and that’s suspicious to us
- I LOVE how you turned their “officer safety” around on them!!
- When an officer is vain enough to say I don’t care, they should automatically be liable to pay out of their pay for any lawsuits that come of the situation. They’re use to citizens paying for their mistakes
- He was pulled out because this vet didn’t lick the cop’s boots. It’s their way of bullying and exerting power over citizens that don’t kiss their asses.
- Like you said this is why there is a disconnect with the public and the police. Their ego over the law.
- EXERCISING OUR RIGHTS IS NOT SUSPICIOUS!
- Why is he so clearly annoyed by a member of the public exercising his 1st amendment right to free press while he interacts with the officer. Honestly it’s infuriating to see a Public Servant annoyed at a citizen using rights. How unprofessional. Clear conduct unbecoming of an officer. Very rude and unprofessional.
- You’re a very smart individual the way you manipulated that. You wanted to know so you don’t do that again was a genius move.👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
- Absolutely it was harassment there was no reason to pull him out of the car. That cop knows it anyone who watched this video knows it.
- We can all clearly see he was butt hurt and wanted to some how gain back power.
- He asked him to get out of the vehicle because he was hoping the man would refuse so then he could tase him, drag him out, and arrest him. All because he didn’t like the man invoking his 5th amendment rights!
- Nice job with maintaining your composure while our public servants did not! This is a good example of egotistical tyranny in our cities. They earn the respect the get.
- This gentleman is lucid, coherent, and makes good points. The officers should be embarrassed by their behavior and their ‘copsplaining’…
- Isn’t it interesting how they always say “I don’t mind you recording its already being recorded by myself, that officer over there and this officer” what they DON’T tell you, is that you will have to PAY for THEIR recordings and that they will redact anything that shows them acting unlawfully.
- “You can do what you want to but you are gonna stand over there if I tell you to stand over there” ahhh, the double think and speak of a tyrant
- It’s weird how some cops freak the f*** out if you get out of your vehicle on your own during a traffic stop because of “officer safety” … yet when they want to really assert their authority, they will demand you get out of your vehicle. Cops always tell you they are recording via their body cams, yet they get very defensive and confrontational when you (we) record them, because they only want ONE recorded version of the incident. They can mute their body cams on the spot, lose (delete) the footage when it’s requested. Any cop worth his weight would never, ever mind being recorded during any interaction with a member of the public. Ego should never play a part in how a cop performs his duties.
- Cop got butt hurt do he had to show you who’s in charge. By pulling you out of the vehicle. BTW, never let a public servants to speak to you with an attitude. Especially being a veteran. 12:08 cop “you’re going to stand over there if that’s what I tell you to do”. That should’ve set you off. Law enforcement has no authority over you!
- So I guess exercising your constitutional rights in the presence of a law enforcement officer is now a form of Defiance , or their absolute favorite saying , Uncooperative….
- We all know that the driver was pulled out of the vehicle in order for the officer to passively control what the driver’s camera was able to witness.
- LT has zero authority to tell this free citizen where to freaking stand if he’s not being detained. Absolutely ridiculous behavior.
- What’s amazing to me is the cop showed Zero respect for the Veteran and treated him like an enemy
- You go boy all I got to say is BOOOOM . He turned it all around when he asked that supervisor what he did wrong to make the officer feel unsafe.
- “you’re gonna stand right there if that’s what I tell you to do” who do these people think they are? Bloody low lives
- Just imagine if we could treat cops the way they treat us.
- “If you wanna go to court on it” That’s the truth right there, they KNOW the justice system is broken and KNOW they have zero accountability. “We do what we want, don’t like it, take it to court where the system will chew you up” “You’ve already filed your complaint” lol, yeah sure he was going to file paperwork on that and start an investigation.
- 15:22 This is where the “supervisor” misquotes and thus misunderstands the SCOTUS ruling. Police have a wide range of description in where they conduct a traffic stop based on “officer and detained individual safety”. The auditor points out the officer has abused his entrusted authority to use this description as a bully tactic which is not related to officer (or detained individual) safety. It’s a far too common practice which needs to be eliminated in order to regain public trust in law enforcement.
- Pennsylvania v Mimms says an officer can ask u to step out for “officer safety”. Not just because a cop “feels like it” or “wants u to”.
- And still none of those Sovereign Citizens with Badges and Guns has given a REASON for why a Docile Law Abiding Citizen made that Supposedly trained and qualified Officer “feel unsafe”, and yet STILL failed to ensure his safety with a pat down. Because it obviously WAS a tactic to instill fear and blind obedience to his Tyranny. It’s also extremely disappointing to see the other two completely ignore their own oaths to the Law and Constitution. Bully with a Badge, afraid the camera is going to document his distain for the Citizens who pay his salary.
- 15:20 the Corporal said is doesnt matter what he calls it! Oh! I very much DOESNT matter because when that deprivation of rights lawsuit comes and the other cops qualified immunity is on the line the jury will have to decide what a OTHER reasonable officers would have done in that same situation!
- “Cause I wanted to” isn’t a lawful reason to require someone to exit their vehicle. That’s something that is lawful for officer safety but “cause I wanted to” isn’t an officer safety thing.
- The only reason he was asked to get out was to intimidate him for saying he wasn’t going to answer questions, as his right. That was the only reason.
- Mimms v PA says they can pull you from the car if they fear for their safety. That’s it. Not because they “feel like it”