Ever wonder why INTJs are considered anti-social or sociopathic personalities? Watch them not “give a crap” about your machinations.
It isn’t impossible to “guilt trip” an INTJ but many of us see it for the emotional manipulation it is and we resort to one of our personality traits that people really can’t cope with: ice-cold indifference.
That will usually be followed by distancing to outright removal from one’s life the source of the guilt trip. Up to and including family. If we choose to not go along, accept it. Laying a guilt trip for the purpose of achieving your desired compliance often results in the exact opposite effect. Not only do you not get what you seek, we’ll call you out or cut you out to prevent any future attempts.
One of our greatest traits, our loyalty, is counterbalanced by the fact that, when push comes to shove, we will detach ourselves from a no-win situation so fast it will leave you wondering what happened. It isn’t hate. It is just “do not care”. Your protests and attempts become water off a duck’s back. Immaterial. Persist and we’ll tell you to fuck right off. Maybe tactfully. Maybe not. Either way, you won’t succeed.
There’s a reason we don’t play politics well. We see right through it and really can’t be bothered to “play the game”. Guilt tripping is just another mind game that doesn’t interest us at best and offends us at worst.
Try it once and I’ll ignore it. Try it twice and I will make sure you don’t try it again.
Not only is it always obvious, distasteful, manipulative, disingenuous, unintelligent, and displaying poor tact, as someone who was raised with fundamentalist religion that made guilt tripping a part of its MO, it is a fantastic way to guarantee I will lose respect for you or potentially get angry. The Flying Spaghetti Monster forbid you try to guilt trip me according to some arbitrary religious inclination. On top of that, guilt tripping is a form of weakness. It shows you have no more cards to play other than pathetic cheap shots leveraging some power other than your own mind.
What is almost worse than guilt tripping, however, is when a person tries to paint you as an asshole for refusing to give in to their guilt trip and tries to manipulate group dynamics against you. I’ve had times where I refused to give in and someone else is like, “Come on man, you hurt their feelings. Just do it/don’t do it this once.” No. Flat out no. Do not reward bad behavior. You wouldn’t give a dog a treat for shitting on the carpet. Don’t reward someone for shitting on their own self respect and wasting my time.
Try to guilt trip me, and my emotions (including any sense of guilt I might normally have felt) go into complete shutdown. Other people do not get to manipulate my emotions. I do not allow them that access, and I immediately think less of them for attempting it.
Once an attempt has been made, I take great pride and pleasure in completely blocking the person, not giving them anything even remotely resembling the response they hoped for, and presenting as completely unruffled. It drives them CRAZY, and it’s deeply satisfying.
The second I get any sense of emotional manipulation is the second you’ve lost me. Even if the rest of your argument has a good logical structure- I have tuned you out.
In my view, the only people who resort to guilt tripping are either making a power play or have something morally deficient to hide.
“Ally! How are you doing since the breakup?”
“Oh! That was a while ago. I’m doing great!”
“Are you? I know these things take time to get over. And that’s okay. You don’t want to rush yourself.”
“Not at all. It was for the best.”
“OK. Because you know Danny is seeing someone else now.”
“Yes. He told me.”
“OK, because people are worried about you. I thought you deserved to know.”
“I know and I’m fine with it. I’m seeing someone also!”
“Wow, that was quick. Does he know you just got out of a relationship?”
“Do you want some caramel cheesecake?”
“No, thank you! I’m full and I’m trying to cut back on dessert.”
“Ice cream? Chocolate mousse?”
“Really, I can’t.”
“You can have dessert every now and then!”
“I’ve already eaten dessert this week. I have goals, so no.”
“Well, it looks like you’ve already lost weight.”
“Maybe two or three pounds.”
“You don’t want to get too thin and frail looking. Being underweight is unhealthy too. I’m a little worried about you.”
“I am in no danger of becoming underweight.”
“OK. Just don’t deprive yourself. It’s no fun being thin if you’re miserable.”
“You coming to happy hour?”
“Sorry, I can’t. Big deadline at work.”
“You can’t spend one night out?”
“Not right now. I don’t want to lose momentum.”
“You don’t want to become one of those people who ‘lives to work.’ I’m worried about you. Remember your company doesn’t care about you. If you died, they’d replace you tomorrow!”
“They pay me well, actually, and my name is on this product. So this is important for them and me.”
“OK. Well, you seem really tired. We just don’t want you to work yourself to death…”
“People are worried about you. It seems like all you do is work.”
“We just went out last week!”
“OK, just don’t let them take advantage of you.”
Concern trolling. When you’re failing at everything, the idea of your friend succeeding is unbearable. So try to destabilize her and make her second-guess her confidence.
Convince her that her situation is far worse than she believes and she’s the only one who doesn’t see it—and do it under the pretense that you’re protecting her best interests.
- Goal oriented.
Narcissists won’t stop at nothing and wouldn’t give destroying or betraying anyone, a second thought.
For high functioning narcissists, that can lead to being a successful, albeit remorseless and calculating, person.
Like a cunning salesman/woman.
For low functioning narcissists, that can land them in prison.
COME. THE POLICE OFFICER WILL ACCUSE YOU
OF THE CRIME CONFIDENTLY, UNWAVERINGLY, AND
REPEATEDLY. THEY WOULD SAY THINGS LIKE — WE
KNOW FOR A FACT THAT YOU DID IT, I JUST
WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY! AND YOU WILL NOT
BE ALLOWED TO DENY THINGS. THE POLICE
OFFICER WILL INTERRUPT ALL YOUR DENIALS.
THEY WOULD DISMISS YOUR DENAILS AS
IMPOSSIBLE AND CONTRADICTORY TO THE
FACTS OF THE CASE. ESSENTIALLY, THEY WILL
NOT ALLOW YOU TO EFFECTIVELY VERBALIZE
ANY COHERENT DENIALS OR DEFENSE. THEY WILL SAY
THINGS LIKE — STOP DENYING IT! STOP
LISTEN TO ME! LISTEN TO ME NOW! I WILL
GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK IN JUST
A MOMENT, BUT RIGHT NOW, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT
THAT YOU LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY!
WHY DO THEY SAY THAT? WHY DO THEY TELL
YOU THAT YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM? IT
IS NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOMETHING
TERRIBLY IMPORTANT TO SAY. RATHER, IT IS
BECAUSE THE POLICE INTERROGATION
TECHNIQUE INDICATES THAT THE SUSPECT
SHOULD NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
VERBALIZE DENIALS. NEXT: FALSE EVIDENCE
PLOYS. THE POLICE OFFICER WILL CONFRONT
YOU WITH EVIDENCE AGAINST YOU, SOMETIMES
REAL EVIDENCE, SOMETIMES FABRICATED
EVIDENCE — KNOWN AS A FALSE EVIDENCE PLOY.
THEY WILL SAY THAT THEY HAVE
YOUR FINGERPRINTS, OR THEY’VE GOT YOUR DNA, OR THEY
HAVE EYEWITNESS TESTIMONIES, OR THEY HAVE
As as a former cop I believe many innocent people have been brainwashed into making false confessions and punished with the approval of the DA, Judge and Police chief. This is what all good cops should fight to prevent. We should work as hard to exonerate innocent person as to convict a guilty one. The objective is to do a good job without, remorse, doubt and guilt.
I was once a prime suspect in a $11K petty cash theft at my workplace. Interrogation went down EXACTLY the way described here. As the innocent party, my mistake was expecting that me agreeing to be interviewed at the station, which bait and switched to interrogated, was going to help them with their investigation. instead they spent 5 hrs trying to get a confession. Until you’ve lived it, you cant relate to how scary and stressful it is when you’re innocent.after once or twice it can be enjoyable. just tell the cops to hurry up cause you are heading over to their house to investigate a possible crime when you leave.@Ronald Agyemang You don’t ALLOW them to interrogate you. You don’t say but one thing, “I want a lawyer.” And you keep saying it a thousand times if you have to do so. If you don’t have the money to hire an attorney they HAVE to provide you with one. That is your right under the Constitution of the United States. Good luck.It’s stressful yes. I understand. Once you keep your mouth shut and don’t get into any dialogue it’s better. Switch the questions on them. If they ask, what would you normally do after work. Ask them well what would you normally do. And repeat. No dialogue, no report building.It’s alarming that often they are more interested in closing the case than finding out who is actually guilty. Especially in a murder investigation.There appears to be a pattern that vulnerable people are charged with crimes, because it’s easier to get confessions. The police do not appear to be particularly interested in finding the real criminal as long as they have a victim to blame it on.
- One of the last things I told my Narc before we separated was, “the reason you are so cruel and mean to me is because when you look at me I am EVERYTHING you are not.”
- Dr.often brings me to tears I feel like she is the only person who truly gets it. I’m gobsmacked by the accuracy of her descriptions.
- I love how once you show you are fighting against baiting, narcissists will start trying anything to get a rise out of you.
- My sympathies to any human being on this earth that has had or is having to deal with one of these insecure monsters. Learn everything there is to know about this personality disorder because if you don’t you will be destroyed. Learn to seek out your weaknesses and grow from them. Do your best to stay in a positive emotion no matter how much negative dark energy they throw at you.
- One thing that a narcissist tell you when you’re beginning to analyze the situation is that ” you’re paranoid” or ” you’re crazy”
- Her final act of baiting was close to the end of a 7 year relationship and was with her at the wheel of an automobile with me as a passenger on a busy Interstate freeway. I had already been Grey Rocking and not taking the bait and she was in need of a hit of supply. Her driving quickly became aggressive and dangerous. It scared the crap out of me and I knew she was trying to get me to react. As tough as it was I just kept my mouth shut knowing there was really no right or wrong choice I could make in this situation. After this wild ride I never put myself in such a dangerous situation with her again and left the relationship soon afterwards.
- I caught that smirk on my parent narc many many years ago. It was almost like my narc was having an inner conversation congratulating herself for getting me upset. It was so blatant I just starred at her in disbelief and disgust. She came out of her self-congratulatory trance and saw the look on my face and suddenly went off on a tangent screaming that I thought I was better than her and how horrible I was. Truth is she was right, in that moment I realized how sick she was, and that none of it was my fault. That’s the first time I realized the sick game she was playing and that I needed to get out. Years later I stumbled upon stories of people with toxic narcissism and Dr. Ramani and finally connected the dots. What a relief to know I’m not alone and not a crazy loser!
- “Once they’ve stepped away, once they’ve disappeared, the moment you’re alone, cry and yell it out. Just don’t let them see it. Don’t give them that satisfaction.” What Dr. Ramani said right there is so important. Took me almost 50 years to realize that the only time I saw my malignant family member narcissist thrown off guard and unsure of herself was when I appeared unfazed in the face of her narcissism. It is an empowering feelimg. She was able to control the narrative when I would get angry, or sad, or become frustrated, or desperate, or if I tried to get through to her. And narcissists definitely get pleasure and satisfaction out of that. But the first time my response was calm and I let everything roll off my back unbothered, I saw her lose her composure. It was amazing to see a pro in manipulation become almost flustered. When you do this the first time, it may be the most empowering feeling you’ll ever have. And it’s ok if you are caught off guard again because you will already know what to do. And you will get better and more comfortable at it. And like Dr. Ramani said, if you need to yell or cry and get it off your chest, because they probably will try to do something spiteful or trifling, just never let them see it affect you and it doesn’t matter how old you are. You can do it!
- It helped to record the narc’s episodes and listen to them when getting soft and sucked back in the vicious cycle. The narc’s new friends (future victims) that didn’t believe me because they had not experience the sociopathic episodes yet, were shocked. Yes that smooth charming, well spoken person, can be the most emotionally and mentally abusive individual if you don’t let her be in full control.
- Thank you! I just resigned from a committee because of this exact thing. One of the members was baiting and triangulating and as soon as I recognized what was going on, I understood that this was going to be the status quo and I walked. The bizarre thing was that it was all volunteer work and there was zero status to be gained. The power play accomplished nothing but making it impossible to do the work. It’s hard because you want to tell people they’re being played, but you know they won’t believe you. But I can protect me and refuse to participate.
- I know this video is a year old, but listening to it I’m hearing his voice again all over again. Word-for-word you nailed it. Now nearly two years after I left the relationship, it still hurts to hear those same words. He took it all the way, and when I didn’t respond, he then ramped it up, flinging ridiculous accusations at me, causing me to refute his claims when he struck that nerve. That was his touchdown moment. Sometimes I feel no closer to healing than I did in the weeks that followed my exodus. Yet I have to remind myself, look how far I’ve come in moving on! Look what I did in 2 years, things I dared not do before! It’s a struggle, the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for getting me to this point! 💜
- Following an argument with my narcissistic husband I was once ordered to visit a behavioural therapist on the grounds I was deranged, that I that had a ‘darkness’ in me and that I needed help.. I only went along with it to shut him up and get away for a while. I already knew I wasn’t the crazy one in the marriage. Anyway, following my description of him on an average day, the therapist asked me to invite him along for the next session lol. When I told my husband that the therapist would love to see him the following week and that there was nothing for him to be scared of, the sessions were cancelled and the subject of me being crazy / possessed was dropped 😂 (well, until his next meltdown happened).
- When dealing with narcs, I find it useful to turn the tables. Instead of getting defensive, I remind them that they are bothered by an issue within themselves, not with me. They should fix that issue. Perhaps therapy? Watch them go nuts! Be calm. Tell them to calm down. Be woke and leave the conversation as soon as they attack you. You are not the problem-do not be the victim, either. Bullies like a victim- do not be one. Do NOT get defensive. My sister and mother love to start a big fight, then when I got riled up, I could watch them smiling. I would shut down to avoid this. I learned to approach them like crazy people and calmly smile, shake my head and ask them what drama they endured today. Again, they went nuts because they feed on chaos. It takes practice and training, but you can live with them if you have to. Don’t engage in defense.
- My children’s father was a master at this. I became the crazy one who overreacted to his sick manipulative actions. Then he became the perfect parent who “never badmouthed” me and l the unreliable one. Frequently, such as having the children ask me if they could go skiing on the weekend they are to be with me then holding back child support so we were not able to financially do such activities. And of course l took the bait for soo long. It was actually his parents who came to my support. May they rest in peace. It’s taken me 45 years to just now understand this, thank you 🙏🏾
- When I was with a narcissist woman I kept a journal and documented what was going on and detailing things. I did it to reassure myself that I wasn’t going nuts or imagining things. When I finally went to a therapist my journal was very valuable in helping me leave the relationships and recover more quickly. I highly recommended keeping a journal for all of you that are in a toxic relationship.
- This reminds me of my mother, especially the part where she accused me of things I didn’t do. When I moved far away, she tried to bait me, mostly by going after my boyfriend (making wild accusations about him), I kept ignoring her. When I was younger her baiting would work on me, and then she would gaslight. “Look at you! You’re always so angry!”, then she would go into full denial mood when I pointed out how she had just been acting. She would suddenly be all calm and claim, “I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not doing anything, you are. I’m just standing here.”
How the “moral panic” of critical race theory morphed into a book-banning frenzy. And, why a disparate group of billionaires, Republican politicians, televangelists, media outlets, and white supremacist militias have found common cause around a new and exciting moral panic.