Jon Meachum: The Constitution is a Calvinist Ducument. The Declaration was an Englightenment one

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me to this point so I I do think it’s
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a it’s a good bright line to draw John
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Jefferson knew that part and this is in
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your book all these codes about
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partisanship I mean he was pretty
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dedicated to engagement and political
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issues but what would he think of the
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type of partisanship we have now at this
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moment I think he would recognize it
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honestly he once said divisions of
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opinion have convulsed human societies
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since Greece and Rome divisions of
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opinion were the oxygen of a free
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government I’m a skeptic of the a
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prevailing scholarly view that the
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founders had this vision of a one-party
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one-party state and we would all be on
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Olympus with powdered wigs and
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solving problems they may have had that
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vision we all had that vision and but
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they understood reality oh if you if you
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worry if you’re worried about or if you
doubt me about whether they understood
reality read the Constitution which is
entirely about reality constitute if
Jefferson was an Enlightenment document
the Constitution is a Calvinist document
as looms we are all Despres sinful and
driven by appetite and ambition and
we’ve done everything we can
since then to prove them right so I
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think you know this is a the Hemings the
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story about Sally Hemings was first
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publicized in 1802 and we with all love
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and respect to a net we don’t know that
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much more than that first piece doing it
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wasn’t seen as a historical or cultural
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document it was a partisan attack yeah
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you know right and and continued during
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that you know during his presidency and
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in a few times afterwards there’s been a
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big debate recently coming out of the
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New York Times 16:19 project how much do
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we need to revise our concept of the
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founding of this nation do you think
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that makes sense or has it gone a bit
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too far the pendulum is historians have
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been writing about this down for quite
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some time but what we haven’t done as
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much as to think about what that means
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for us today
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that the legacy of slavery is still with
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us there’s a tendency there has been a
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tendency on the part of many people to
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say oh well we knew that but that’s over
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I think that’s the that’s the
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contribution of the magazine of 1619 is
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not to tell us something many things we
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didn’t know but to say there is a
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connection to this that is continuing
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you don’t get rid of hundreds of years
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of slavery in a century or so and we
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really don’t get going as legally full
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citizens until 1965 the passage of the
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vote
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that’s not in the history you know
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that’s a blink of an eye so they even in
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total blink of an eye in history and
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thinking that this stuff is all in the
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past has been the problem and that’s I
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think that’s what the project was trying
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to do is to say no this isn’t over John
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I was struck I believe it was the
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remarks at the signing of the Civil
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Rights Act and in July July 2nd 1964
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Lyndon Johnson grounds his remark at the
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bill signing not on Philadelphia but on
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Jamestown it which which I was struck by
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talk about a complicated figure well you
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know were the Democratic nominee for
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president is a 77 year old white man who
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was the vice president of the first
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african-american president incredibly
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loyal and eulogized Thurmond and
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Eastland you know so well if you’re
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looking for simplicity if you’re looking
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for straightforward figures good luck
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I don’t know who they would be I think
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what an it just said is absolutely
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essential I have a theory
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aboard Walter with this I think
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privately actually that we’re only a 60
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year old nation right the country we
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have right now the polity we have which
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is soon going to be majority diversity
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whatever phrase it is was really created
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in 1964-65 not only with the Civil
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Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act but
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with the Immigration Act yeah which
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totally changed the nature of the
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country and so no wonder this is so hard
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no wonder we’re having such a ferocious
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white reaction this is kind of the 1830s
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in a way and so it’s not to excuse it
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but I do think it explains it a little
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bit and this idea of Prague
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and I know it sounds tinny to people and
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look if you look like me you can talk
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about progress right I’m the boring Lee
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heterosexual white southern Episcopalian
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right I mean things tend to work out for
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me in America so I stipulate that but
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but it’s simply the lesson of history
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that we are in fact a better country
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than we were yesterday doesn’t mean
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we’re perfect doesn’t mean we stop up
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but our are enough of us devoted to
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doing all we can as citizens and as
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leaders to try to create a country that
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more of us can be proud of and if we are
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then let’s get to it yeah and and I
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would throw in women the changing role
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of women from the 1960s and this is
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that’s a good point I wouldn’t I agree
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with 60 years again a short time in
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history where everything everybody’s
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sort of in place it’s like Ken Burns
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said that he found it difficult to call
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talk about the Golden Age of baseball
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and there were no black players in the
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major league how do you how do you do
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that and this is a similar situation
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where you have blacks legally allowed to
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vote and those rights are protected I
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mean there’s issues with voter
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suppression but sort of on paper
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equality is there and it’s hard is
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wrenching for people who have had you
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know power who are used to a certain
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hierarchy a certain way things are were
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or they think about their grandparents
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or good old days it’s hard to get used
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to all of that and so you’re right
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there’s no wonder that there’s a people
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Annette gordon-reed Jon Meacham thank
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you for joining us to be here
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[Music]
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[Music]
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you

Jon Meacham with George Stephanopoulos on Destiny and Power

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directly ahead of his own political
interest and you know he his great
regret is saying read my lips
Dukakis told me a great story about
their post-election courtesy call and
he’s there standing there talking and
Bush says well I certainly can’t raise
taxes in the first year and Dukakis is
like this guy just kicked my ass saying
he never raised taxes and he’s talking
about in the first year you know it was
it was an amazing moment but I think he
redeemed himself at every point and he
knew in some ways talking about ninety
two after the budget deal after the
triumphs of the first Gulf War he he had
a sense that the work of his presidency
if that up to that point was over yeah I
think the work of his life was over if
you look at it I mean biographically you

 

 

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else he wanted to go to the UN Nixon
wanted him to work for Haldeman he sends
but Bush brilliantly intuitively again
appealed to Nixon’s class anxieties and
said well mr. president I’ll do what you
want but nobody up in New York is making
a case for you and I could go up there I
know that world I can do it so here’s
the son of a failed grocer from Yorba
Linda being told by the son of a Polish
senator from Connecticut that he can go
up and represent Richard Nixon in this
zip code
that appealed to Nixon Bush understood
how to reach Nixon so Nixon thought
about it while Bush was off getting his
office calls him back in and says no
you’re going to the UN the next job was
being Republican National Chairman
during Watergate what second prize but
he and that’s the origin if you want to
draw a line to the wimp factor because
Nixon decided Bush wasn’t really tough
enough because Bush wasn’t willing to go
out and cut every Nixon enemy throat and
so and he talks about he says he thinks
I’m not oh he thinks I’m not a killer
you clearly admire President Bush you
know really admires you was there any
moment as you’re working on this and
you’re writing this where you cringe
that’s it boy I wish I didn’t know that
yeah I wish he had I think he committed
a sin of pride in picking Dan Quayle it
was his first executive decision to be
made totally on his own since he went on
the ticket with Reagan he never sat down
with Jim Baker and Atwater and ales and
mossbacher and Nick Brady and said here
are the choices what do you think he
wanted to surprise them because he
didn’t want to be handled and I just
think yeah vice president Quayle was
very kind to me in this project he’s a
lovely man more prepared than people
gave him credit for at the time although
was better allowed it will to call that
a bad roll out like calling the second
world war and unpleasantness
Jesus God listened to you
you really have gone GMA is a big

 

Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power by Jon Meacham

Thomas Jefferson hated confrontation, and yet his understanding of power and of human nature enabled him to move men and to marshal ideas, to learn from his mistakes, and to prevail. Passionate about many things—women, his family, books, science, architecture, gardens, friends, Monticello, Paris—Jefferson loved America most, and he strove again and again, despite fierce opposition, to realize his vision: the creation, survival, and success of popular government in America. Jon Meacham lets us see Jefferson’s world as Jefferson himself saw it, and to appreciate how Jefferson found the means to endure and win in the face of partisan division, economic uncertainty, and external threat. Drawing on archives in the United States, England, and France, as well as unpublished Jefferson presidential papers, Meacham presents Jefferson as the most successful political leader of the early republic, and perhaps in all of American history.

Jon Meacham: “Thomas Jefferson: the Art of Power” | Talks at Google

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Is there some place where digital democracy can
contribute to the good as opposed to what I think it
tends to do now, which is reinforce preexisting biases.
I’m speaking in vastly oversimplified terms.
But one of the things that the digital revolution has made
You can make yourself heard anyway, whether it’s in
comment sections, or Twitter, or Facebook, whatever it is.
Every man is a pundit now.
And that’s great.
But with power comes responsibility.
And so as FDR once said, simply screaming from the
rooftops doesn’t help us a whole lot.
So is there a way to harness this amazing tool to create,
what one would argue, could be a more
constructive political dialogue?
I would hope so.
And I think we’re not even halfway through this, right?
These are the first moments of this.
And so I think you all–
I don’t mean to preach at you– but you all have a hell
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of a responsibility here.
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I mean, this is Google.
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Some guy last night in Seattle asked me where he could find a
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particular letter of Jefferson’s, and I thought he
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meant the idea.
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No, he meant the letter, the actual one he’d written.
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And so I said, well, I don’t have the date off
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the top of my head.
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He said, well, do I have to Google it?
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I said, well, if you have to ask, then yes you do.
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That’s a key thing.
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So you’re a verb.
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So you’re one of the key cultural landmarks of the age.
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So I think that there’s an enormous responsibility there
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to try to figure out how do you use this immense sea?
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How do you channel it into productive ways?
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So I should be asking you all this, is my point.