This clip is taken from the Joe Rogan Experience #1580 with Andrew SchulzDiscusses how boxers who understand how to troll earn more.
Joe Rogan: We are Living in a Time of Adolescent Communication
<iframe width=”560″ height=”315″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/SXOUCRLW2UI” frameborder=”0″ allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture” allowfullscreen></iframe>41:31whole mask thing apparently I was like41:33really arguing you shouldn’t wear a mask41:35or you’re a [ __ ] god it’s but that’s41:38also the problem with sound bites on41:40Twitter yeah it’s41:41you know it exists it’s the content41:44factory and you know anybody that41:46creates content you know then that goes41:50out into the world and look they’re41:51looking for for eyeballs to and that’s41:54why I always feel like like I take [ __ ]41:58but I can’t complain about it because41:59that’s part of the guy right that’s part42:03of the game that’s what I do for living42:04so like when people say let it go42:06correctness it’s overwhelming I just say42:08like amen it’s just other people pushing42:12back and getting to say their [ __ ] and42:13that’s exactly what they should be doing42:16the internet and it’s democratized you42:19know outraged and there’s more speech42:23now than there’s ever been before in the42:25history of the world like we all know42:26you know it’s like that what’s the movie42:28with the Mel Gibson where he knows what42:32women what would you think Yeah right42:34so yeah ESP Twitter and the Internet is42:38just we all have developed the ESP and42:39now we know what everybody is thinking42:41it’s all every day we’re just bombarded42:44by what everybody’s saying well you’re42:46also bombarded by the people that spend42:47the most time doing it because there’s a42:50lot of mentally unwell people that spend42:52their entire day camp down on Twitter42:54having arguments and if you want to42:57venture into that world and risk your42:59consciousness and your health your met43:01your literal mental health by43:03communicating in this really crude43:05manner with text messages and you know43:08arguing over semantics with people that43:10you don’t even know it’s it’s a terrible43:12way to exist are you on Twitter do you43:15have a Twitter account but I don’t read43:16it it goes you know I post things on43:20inner on Instagram they go to Twitter43:22occasionally I’ll post things on Twitter43:23but I don’t read it it’s just too toxic43:26man I get it you know and I know when I43:29[ __ ] up and I know when people are mad43:31at me when it’s legit and valid and I43:33know when they’re mad at me for nonsense43:35and I I’m my worst self critic so I43:38don’t need other people yelling at me I43:40know what I did wrong and stay clear43:42healthy I think that’s the only approach43:44you can have in this environment I think43:46it’s a healthy way to look at it and you43:48know I always try and keep myself like43:50you figure when when people are coming43:52at it there’s probably to be something43:54constructive in there43:55sometimes energy to like find it and43:57sometimes I’m just like I really can43:59used yeah sometimes you can’t do it but44:01yeah there’s value in criticism it’s44:03very important but not too much it’s44:05like anything else like you there’s44:07value in a little bit of snake venom you44:09develop a tolerance but if you get a big44:11fat dose you’re dead and it’s in in many44:14ways it’s the same with interacting with44:16people that are upset with you there’s44:17gonna people people that are upset with44:19everybody for no reason no matter what44:21the story is in the news even if it’s44:22clear-cut to you and I there’s going to44:24be someone who has a violent opposition44:25to that idea it doesn’t mean they’re44:27right it doesn’t mean you’re right it44:29just means people have a lot of44:31different [ __ ] ways of looking at the44:32world and if you want to exist in44:34conflict in perpetuity stay on Twitter44:37and stay on Twitter all day long and44:38just argue with people I don’t want to44:41do that you know and again it’s not that44:43I don’t have any room for improvement44:45it’s not that I don’t appreciate or44:47accept or recognize the value of44:48criticism because I definitely do it’s44:50that it’s not healthy it’s not healthy44:53for me it’s not it could directly affect44:55the kind of content I put out it’s not44:57good that’s what I was upset do you feel45:00like one of the hardest thing to do is45:02to maintain your kind of creative45:06barometer so that you don’t let those45:10kinds of things when you feel like45:13they’re not constructive pulling it too45:15far to the outrage world where some45:18other things like to maintain that and45:21that’s why I think it’s good like what45:22you do in terms of Congress is like you45:22you do in terms of Congress is like you45:24basically say you know I’m gonna do long45:27form because that you know feels like at45:31least from my perspective the healthiest45:33form45:34yeah it’s conversation but is even in45:37that case people will take long-form45:40edit things out of context and then it45:42becomes the same problem that we have on45:45Twitter and with everything else you get45:46these little sound bites so there’s45:48little video clips and you don’t45:50understand the full context of the45:52conversation or what was actually said45:54and then people get outraged at that45:56it’s you know it’s we are living in a45:59very strange time and I believe it’s an46:01adolescent stage of communication and I46:03think it’s going to give our46:04frustrations for this are going to give46:06birth to a better full46:08and I think one of the things that46:09podcasts what it’s in response to the46:13popularity of the long-form is in46:15response to people being upset with like46:18these traditional late-night talk show46:20things where there’s a window here with46:22one guy on the right and a window here46:23with a guy on the left and there’s a46:24person in the center and they’re yelling46:25at each other and then you cut to46:26commercial and you don’t really feel46:27like things got resolved so the response46:30to that where people gravitate it’s46:32three is theater yeah I think he’s was46:37it hard for you you know when we came up46:39his comments it was also at that point46:42like it was sort of a gladiatorial46:43environment you know and I remember you46:45know the Boston scene you know was46:48always like that’s a tough scene yeah46:50he’d come up and it was kind of46:53gladiatorial and but you had that46:55audience and you develop kind of that46:57thick skin is it hard to then make that46:59switch in your mind to this different47:03form that’s so much more considered so47:06much less about conquering the stage47:11yeah it is about being open and is that47:15something that for you what was the47:19switch for you from those two forms47:22because that’s and that’s an interesting47:23switch well in the beginning there47:26wasn’t very good switch you know it’s47:28like one of the reasons why the early47:29episode sucked it’s like I didn’t know47:31what I was doing and I didn’t think47:32anybody was listening it was just for47:34fun and there was a lot of just hanging47:36out with comics and just doing what47:37comics do if we were at a diner47:39somewhere just talking [ __ ] and making47:41each other laugh but we were doing it47:43and videotaping it and then along the47:45way I started interviewing actual47:47interesting people and talking to them47:49and having conversations and not you47:51know I don’t you know I there’s a place47:53for comedy and then I don’t I make a47:56really big point in never trying to47:59force comedy into places where it48:01doesn’t belong that’s I do that also48:04with the UFC when I do commentary I’m48:05never funny there’s no reason to be it’s48:07not what my job is you know and then48:09when I’m doing a conversation with48:11someone I just try to talk I don’t try48:14to be a comic I don’t try I just I’m a48:16human I want I want to know what they’re48:18talking about and I want to I want to48:20get them to expand upon their48:22ideas as best they can and I want to be48:24engaged that’s what I’m trying to do so48:27it wasn’t that it wasn’t that was a big48:30transition it was that I had to learn48:31how to do this thing48:33that I didn’t I think was a skill I48:34thought that like being on the radio or48:37podcasting you know was just talking48:39that’s what I thought it so you’re just48:40talking and then I realize no no you’re48:42talking in a way that people want to48:45listen you’re making it entertaining48:47you’re keeping your ego in check you’re48:49you’re moving the conversation along way48:51not being overbearing you’re not letting48:54people ramble too much where it’s boring48:56you you got to figure out how to juice48:57things up and push them and massage them48:59and move him around it’s a skill and I49:02didn’t think it was a skill and you know49:04and like I said that’s one of the49:06reasons when my early episodes suck so49:07bad there wasn’t given any consideration49:10to the fact that people were listening49:11it was just fun we’re just doing it for49:14ourselves and then along the way and in49:17this house he also speaks to the value49:19of criticism I read a bunch of criticism49:21about what was wrong with the podcast49:23you know that I talk we talk over each49:26other I talk too much whatever it was49:28and I took it to heart and I would think49:30about it I’ll go okay I gotta consider49:32that people are listening to this this49:34isn’t just what I want to say it’s what49:36I want people to hear I know how I want49:38it just like stand up you wanted the49:40joke to easily enter into a person’s49:42mind so it’s so well written and so49:45perfectly timed that the audience goes49:47John Stewart’s got this I’m just gonna49:49sit back and let him take my thoughts on49:51a ride and that’s that’s what really49:53good stand-up is I mean it’s one of the49:55reason why dave was able to do that 8:4649:58special that way where he has this long50:02drawn-out story with so many important50:06points and a few laughs thrown in there50:08but so engaged and it’s he’s so you just50:12go with him you just let him take you50:14just let him take you and that’s that’s50:16everything whether it’s someone giving a50:19speech or you know I mean even like just50:24almost every conversation that we have50:26it’s there’s a skill to it that we’re50:28not taught I mean you know what it’s50:30like to talk to someone where they’re50:31not even really talking to you they’re50:33just kind of waiting for50:35them to talk they’re waiting for you to50:36finish so they can talk about themselves50:37that’s that’s a real problem with people50:40and communicating and I had to learn how50:42to I learn how to be a better50:44communicator really it also had to be50:46authentically you because there is now50:49like I think the best measure sometimes50:52of art or a standard for those things is50:55when you you hear things or see things50:57that are uniquely that person like50:59nobody could have delivered 8:46 good51:03day right line perfect yeah it just51:06authentically uniquely in your voice51:10that you develop authentically uniquely51:12and that’s a hard thing to develop it’s51:13funny because I feel like that’s what51:16stand-up helped to do for me hmm us when51:19you do that in front of our eyes even51:21I’ll give like boss as an example you51:22know when we’d be working next you do51:24that that run of mixes like in the51:26framingham and the other ones you know51:27we go to the the one in Central Boston51:31first and I can remember I hadn’t played51:36the room before and I was I was a young51:37comic and I just don’t let her and I51:39think I’ve gotten like a big break and51:41so the guys at Nick’s booked me on that51:44run to be a headliner my first run on51:48those next properties so I came into51:50Nicks and they were just gonna throw me51:53up on stage and what they did was so51:57such a learning experience because you51:58kind of think like I’m on Letterman I’m52:00just gonna walk into this place I’m52:01coming up from your top bed a comedy I’m52:04gonna [ __ ] strut my stuff and Nicks52:06and they threw up before me I think it52:10was Lenny Clarke Kenny Robertson and52:14swinging and I walked in the room and it52:19was like Dresden like they had so blown52:23that room out with brilliance and then52:25it was like and from New York a52:27Letterman guy John Stehr and it was it52:32was like they were clubbing a baby seal52:35I was just but man they did that to52:39everybody it but so like wonderfully52:42humbling yeah he is it makes you realize52:44in the moment like all right52:46I’ve got a [ __ ] ton of work to do yes52:48like okay just murder it brilliant [ __ ]52:52and you’re just like that boy yeah if52:56you want to be humbled that the Boston52:59comedy scene in the late 80s in the53:01early 90s that was the place to be it53:04was a great place to develop too though53:05because it lets you know I mean you53:08never want to be overconfidence one of53:09the worst things you could be in53:10anything and you never want to be lazy53:12if you’re especially when you’re53:14delivering something to people that are53:16actually paying to see you talk right53:19like man there’s such a such a important53:23connection that you have to those people53:25it has got it you’ve got to do the work53:28it’s got to be your best version and if53:31you’re not doing that and they know53:33you’re not doing that they get angry at53:34you it’s like it’s the anger that an53:37audience has towards a comic that’s53:38bombing is very difficult to describe53:41you know like they’re mad they can do53:43that too they can talk to like why the53:45[ __ ] are you talking like if you’re not53:48on in you know there’s real valuable53:50lessons to that as a crack coming up53:52that you do apply to whether it’s53:54podcast and you’re hosting any kind of a53:56show ya know there’s a fertility to it53:58and if you don’t stay on top of it you54:00know the energy that room is is a bear54:03that will get up and walk out of the54:04room if you’re not careful but it’s54:07interesting also though now so you’re54:08known now stand up when you’re down54:11versus stand up when you’re not there’s54:13also a difference because you walk into54:16a room when they know you and there is54:18you know you don’t have to be as sharp54:22if you don’t want to because they’re and54:23that’s a discipline as well yeah I mean54:26that you’re not coasting on maybe some54:29goodwill that they had for you based on54:32something else that’s very dangerous54:33that’s one of the reasons why the Comedy54:35Store is so important because when I go54:37there it’s not my crowd it’s my crowd54:39and you know Anthony Jeselnik crowd and54:43Ali Wong’s crowd and like there’s a lot54:45of people there coming to see everybody54:47and so and you’re going on after all54:49these murderers so it’s when you’re when54:52you’re in that kind of an environment54:53you sort of have to dot your i’s and54:55cross your T’s you got to do the work54:57right are you still really involved like54:59because for me you know once I did55:02started the show and once I had kids55:04like I’ll really get to the clubs55:06anymore so it almost feels like old55:09timers day when I show up showed up he’s55:13good you know but I wish I I wish I55:17could get out there more and every night55:18it would be you know you’re like 855:19o’clock I’m like I should I should just55:21drive up to the city and go work the55:23cellar and then my wife will be like55:25bachelor in paradise is on all right55:27yeah yeah well the way I had been55:31setting it up at the store was all my55:33sets would be after 10 o’clock for the55:35most part except rarely rarely I would55:38do an 8 o’clock show so everybody would55:40be in bed so I’d leave my house and my55:42set wouldn’t be probably until 11:00 so55:45I’d leave my house and everybody’d be55:46asleep and it was perfect and I just and55:49I that’s also my favorite time to write55:51to I would come home from the store and55:53everybody’d be asleep fire up a joint55:55and sit in front of laptop and come up55:57with some ideas and it’s I had it down55:59to a science before the the lockdown56:01right has the lockdown mess your56:06creature I don’t know I mean I mean my56:10comedy routine it certainly has I don’t56:12know I mean I’m doing my first shows56:14this weekend in Houston I don’t know56:15what the [ __ ] gonna happen I don’t56:17know if I know how to do it anymore56:18that’s gonna be very strange like you56:23couldn’t go more into the belly of the56:24beast like right juicy yeah like it’s56:26like being on the surface of being like56:28it’s off your charts with this thing56:29yeah I’m gonna go on stage with two56:30bottles of Lysol and just you know girls56:33do that thing when they spray perfume56:34and they walk through it I do that with56:37Lysol on stage I mean I think it’s56:42really critical to strengthen your56:44immune system and I do a lot of things56:45to do that and I think that’s something56:47that people need to really concentrate56:48on and I really wish that our elected56:50officials were talking more about that56:52and having speeches with doctors and56:55doing the office you never shall Obama56:58tried to do like try to put kale in57:01something and everybody was like what57:02I’m sorry go back to tater tots57:08yeah I mean just the science on vitamin57:12supplementation and how critical it is57:14for your immune system particularly57:15vitamin D that is that could literally57:17save lives and that knowledge is not57:20secret that knowledge is out there you57:22did those those episodes on the game57:24changers the James was and that was it57:28was fascinating it was because I watched57:30that movie and you know nutrition is57:33also like diet is such an important part57:35of what we do to ourselves that we that57:38we don’t think and especially in a time57:39of kovat where so many people like to57:43say like when you see what this does the57:45people with type 1 diabetes are four57:47with other kinds of you know conditions57:51that might be caused from either poor57:53diet or lack of access to know healthier57:56options and things like that you realize57:58like [ __ ] we put ourselves in a very58:01vulnerable position58:02yeah very vulnerable yeah we Andrew58:05Schultz had a really good point he said58:07this this pandemic highlighted the58:10vulnerabilities both in our economic58:11system and in our health system like the58:15way we are as human beings the what58:17who’s vulnerable the obese people people58:20with diabetes older folks I mean it58:22highlights all these issues where you58:25know we we really need to concentrate on58:28for the future if you want more people58:29to survive this there is there are58:32strategies that can be implemented and58:34we really we really need to talk to58:36people about just being normal stuff58:38being D hiding well hydrated making sure58:41you’re not dehydrated well rested teach58:44people meditation techniques is not hard58:46to learn some breathing exercises that58:48have been actually proven to increase58:51your immune function it’s not hard to58:53teach people about vitamin D and58:55supplementing it if you can’t go outside58:56so how do you get people then to take58:59action because here’s the other thing59:01you remember like those lives are hard59:02yeah you’re dealing when you’re talking59:04about like we talked about earlier like59:06economic inequality you know it’s hard59:10to go into an area where they feel like59:12[ __ ] I don’t know where my next meal is59:13coming from and be like so here’s what59:16we’re gonna do we’re just gonna sit and59:17breathe quiet these five minutes and I59:19know59:20it’s a really difficult it’s like59:23hierarchy of needs you know yeah how do59:26you how do you work into the idea that59:30those types of theories are actually59:33important to the betterment of like and59:36the stability of the larger part of59:38their life when they’re fighting so hard59:40just to stay afloat yeah it’s a that’s59:43an interesting point and I think what59:46you have to do is it has to be first of59:48all told by people who are doing it59:51successfully so people that are doing it59:54that like maybe were struggling with59:55their immune system and turned it around59:58and got healthier like those people are60:00the ones that the people that are in a60:01bad position right now they really60:03respond to when it comes to you live60:05there’s an emotional connection with if60:07you see some guide is in the cover of60:08Men’s Health magazine he’s ripped and he60:10starts talking about fitness you like60:11get the [ __ ] out of here I can’t relate60:13to you I’m never gonna look like that60:14but if you see someone who is in the60:16situation that you’re in currently and60:19they turned it around60:21well that me but listen I’ve been60:24working out my whole life I’ve never60:25stopped okay but if someone is fat I’m60:29talking from their perspective and they60:30see some guy who’s really thin and60:33chiseled then it’s not going to make60:34sense to them that they could ever be60:36like that but if they see someone60:38there’s a lot of really fantastic photos60:40and and and Instagram and Facebook pages60:43online where you can get inspiration60:45from someone who actually stuck to a60:47diet actually stuck to an exercise60:49routine and then speaks really well60:51about how much it improved the way they60:54feel their emotions their depression all60:56the aspects of their life and that’s I60:58think one of the more like David Goggins61:00is a great example that I use him all61:02the time because he’s this incredibly61:04inspirational guy who was a Navy SEAL61:07and at one point in time he’s 300 pounds61:09he was drinking milkshakes and he puts61:10those pictures of himself on Instagram61:12all the time just to let people know hey61:15I’m not some alien I’m a person who was61:18weak just like you I was lazy I got fat61:21and then I figured out how to train my61:23mind to be disciplined and I’d figured61:25out how to be happier and I think that61:27that’s really important for people to61:29see that it’s we’re not in a static61:31State we’re all in a constant state of61:34him61:34provement and growth hopefully or61:35deterioration if you’re not careful but61:38does that you know the thing that I61:40worry about those sometimes is similarly61:43to economic distress does it make a61:47person’s health61:49be a function of their virtue does it61:52does it take something that is beyond a61:54lot of people’s control that isn’t that61:57a little bit of like a matter if you61:59just pull your pants up you could do it62:02like no it’s not it’s known it is the62:04way I know what you’re saying but it’s62:06not it’s I did this and I can show you62:09how I did it and maybe you can do it too62:11that’s what it is we don’t have to look62:12at every success is somehow or another62:14thumbing in the face of people who can’t62:16achieve a similar goal but there are62:20enough people out there that can that we62:23should concentrate on that because I62:24think it’ll have a significant62:25improvement on the overall health of us62:27again as a community and I think this is62:30really how we have to look at the United62:33States and human beings on earth in62:35general we have to look at each other as62:37a bunch of people that could very well62:39be neighbors we’re community and if62:41you’re my friend and you were fat and62:43you were willing to listen and I used to62:46be fat too and I can tell you hey man62:48this is what I did I stopped drinking62:50soda was there are people that are I62:53mean I understand the point there and62:56I’m okay I’m an advocate for plant-based62:58stuff I think that’s it’s a healthy way63:00to do it63:01but obviously eating is such a personal63:03experience that I hesitate to ever63:05impart that in any other way but I just63:10feel like sometimes for people it’s63:15almost more debilitating for that63:18mentality of this is how you doing just63:21gotta get your [ __ ] together and go63:23through this way I do think you have to63:25present more options but know that it’s63:28maybe more complicated and people can be63:31overweight or whatever and be healthy63:33it’s not necessarily you know something63:38that’s corrosive to them but well it is63:40though being overweight is necessarily63:43corrosive it’s not healthy for anybody63:44it’s less healthy63:47and being at an optimal weight that’s63:50what’s important it gives you some sort63:52of a burden63:53whether that burden is sustainable is63:55debatable maybe for some people it is63:57for some people it isn’t look some63:58people can smoke until they’re 90 and64:00they’re fine64:01other people pancreatic cancer like64:03Hicks and died in their 30s it it64:06depends64:07wildly on the person but the idea that64:10you can be fat and you can be healthy I64:12think is a dangerous narrative because64:14you’re telling people listen don’t64:16improve you don’t have to you can be64:19healthy and be obese at the same time64:21but the medical science does not really64:24support that the more weight you lose up64:28to a certain point you know but when you64:30if you get to a healthy body mass your64:32body works better it’s really simple it64:34doesn’t tax your immune system as much64:36doesn’t tax your heart as much it’s64:38better for you it’s better for your64:40joints it doesn’t mean that we should64:44ignore people that are overweight and64:46you know and pretend that you know that64:49they’re they’re not worthy or they’re64:51not they’re not good folks I have a very64:55emotional because I feel protective64:58you’re nice over people and I I just65:01yeah I think you sweetheart it’s great65:04that’s a good thing no it is it’s the65:07the reason why you’re thinking like this65:09because we’re talking right we’re65:12talking about people doing well and you65:13like [ __ ] what about the people can’t do65:15well let’s reach out to them and offer65:17them an olive branch and yeah I get it65:18man I guess you’re right you’re right65:20look I have very good friends that are65:22morbidly obese and they don’t want to65:24listen and there’s nothing I can do I65:26just hug them when I see them and you65:27know I hope that one day they come to65:29grips with it and they change but they65:31don’t have to you know you you live this65:33life for a certain amount of time and if65:35you want to live it eating cake and65:36drinking beer that’s you you do whatever65:39you want we’re all on the end in the end65:41we’re all gonna be in the ground it’s65:42all pointless conversation sort out65:50optimistically take in this country and65:52turning it around and a very fatalistic65:55officer65:56well that’s true the end in the end65:57we’re all dying65:58that’s how that story ends we’re all66:00dead so the the story with what I don’t66:04want people to do is suffer and I want66:05people to feel better while they’re66:06alive and I think that’s something66:08that’s missed in the message of health66:10improvement like you will actually have66:12a better experience on earth and it’ll66:15help you mitigate stress it’ll help you66:17it’ll help you have better relationships66:19because you won’t be burdened down with66:21a lot of like anxiety and stress that66:23literally comes from a physical release66:25of energy I look at the body like a66:27battery and I think that some people’s66:29batteries just overflowing with66:31corrosive material because they never66:33exert it66:34they never blow it out a battery a66:35battery is a bad analogy but there’s66:37there’s a certain amount of physical66:39requirement I think your body has to has66:42and if you don’t give that that body66:44that physical exertion it doesn’t feel66:46good we’re we’ve evolved to hunt and66:49gather and build homes and survive from66:52predators and we carry around all the66:54burdens in our body of this past and66:57there’s no getting around that and you66:59could either deny it and just deal with67:01all the tension or you can exert your67:03energy find some way to calm your mind67:06and live a life that’s better let me ask67:10you a question egg because now this is67:11I’m wondering because you’re talking67:14about sort of evolving to a place where67:17your body and like when you had James on67:19and he was talking about babies do you67:23have moral qualms about meat or do you67:26not like you said well you know we’re67:28hunters and and that like is that ever67:30an issue for you or is it purely a67:32health issue or there’s both things67:35there’s a health issue there is a moral67:37qualms with factory farming there’s not67:39a moral qualms qualms with health with67:41hunting because I I know the reality of67:43the life of a deer if you don’t kill67:46that deer it’s gonna die a horrible67:48death from a wolf or a coyote or a67:50mountain lion or whatever the [ __ ] gets67:52ahold of it67:53it’s got Ruiz to death it’s going you67:55can either die quickly by the hand of a67:57person you respect that life and it’ll67:59nurture your body and the bodies of your68:01family our problem is a disconnection68:03more than anything and let me tell you68:05something when the kovat lockdown68:06happened I got more requests from68:08friends and more requests for68:09information about hunting and gun68:11ownership how do I68:12protect myself and how do I feed myself68:13and how do I grow food those were three68:15really big questions that I kept getting68:17from people it’s fine I have such a68:19different perspective on it in terms of68:22just the the relationship between myself68:28and I didn’t house a big meat-eater was68:30a big like deli guy pastrami and corned68:32beef and all that my wife got into68:35rescue and these types of things and we68:37ended over the farm with pigs and goats68:40and sheep and things like that and it68:44became untenable for me to make that68:47decision you know that that sort of that68:50decision of I think you’ll be better off68:53if I kill you and then it became it was68:58something I could no longer manage once69:01I knew the process of it and that it was69:05a hard it’s been a very hard process for69:09me it’s only been about four or five69:10years how was your health I mean I’m an69:14old Jew so baseline pretty much we don’t69:20age well to begin with how old do you69:23know John we age a bit like avocados69:25when you leave them out69:26yeah I’m 57 I’m 52 so or in similar69:32boats similar boat you know but I mean69:36it’s hard to know I feel good you know69:39if you look at markers like cholesterol69:41or blood pressure those things it’s69:44better but like you say I don’t I don’t69:48know enough about how the body processes69:52to know if I’m I feel better the numbers69:56say I’m better but you know genetics I’m70:00sure plays a part in it as well but the70:03funny thing is like I don’t even think70:06about it anymore70:06like it just don’t even think about it70:08anymore well let’s get into a custom and70:12once your gut biome changes you know you70:14really get accustomed to whatever you’re70:16eating good or bad unfortunately and70:18that’s one of the reasons why people70:19have such a hard time quitting sugar and70:20bread and pasta and things along those70:22lines so your body just craves it that’s70:24what it wants we start eating healthier70:26food your body does great that can go70:28off of meat and still be incredibly70:30unhealthy like you know you can be vegan70:32and just exist on Lay’s potato chips70:35yeah and so it is you know and it’s a70:38tougher Road and the world is certainly70:41not it’s not built for that and it70:44certainly feels a little bit of a70:49narrower lane that you have to do and I70:52also think it’s an incredibly emotional70:54topic yeah like very little that’s as70:56emotional and personal as what people71:00put in their bodies and how they eat and71:01what they do and I’m always very71:03respectful because I also I got no leg71:05to stand on man I like this is what I’m71:07doing it feels better for me but I I71:11always say like but it’s such a personal71:16and individual choice than you71:18everybody’s got to do for themselves71:20the only thing I would say is like I do71:22think it’s important for people to get71:24educated on it to read up on like you71:27say factory farming well what might be71:30the you know nutritional boss of it or71:33what are some of the things that are in71:35it or what maybe is it going to do to71:37our community when you know we use so71:40many antibiotics mm-hmm and the meat71:42production ah you know that’s the only71:45thing I say is like try and educate71:47yourself to how your meal gets to your71:50table that’s why I’m a huge advocate for71:53like local farming and agriculture71:55because those are the people they’re71:57just growing their food and they’re71:58bringing it to your table I find that72:00incredible but but I also don’t I try72:04not to take a position of judgment on72:07people because I feel like that’s unfair72:09but I think that’s very wise of you and72:11I think that there’s a lot of people72:13that share your position on animal death72:15and I think that’s one of the more72:16promising aspects of laboratory created72:18meat as long as it can be done in a way72:19that’s actually going to be healthy for72:21us it seems like there’s some real72:23science behind that and they’re very72:25very close to releasing that a large72:27scale so it would be actual meat that72:29doesn’t come with death which is really72:31fascinating oh really yeah yeah you’re72:34talking about like the the the one that72:36they had I saw like it’s a tank72:37and he pulls out it’s like $20,000 for a72:40chicken breast they did that yeah it was72:42really expensive at one point in time72:44but they’ve gotten it down to a burger72:46now like they can actually make a burger72:48out of this stuff and they feel like as72:51this if this technology improves they72:53essentially flesh when it’s not a would72:57you if you could if you could still have73:00the the part of me that you like but it73:03came without death do you think you73:05would make that switch or is that73:06something that well I certainly would73:08with domestic animals the the difference73:10between that and hunting there’s there’s73:12a conservation aspect of it one thing73:15that leads to protection of wildlife73:18habitat is actually the money that comes73:20from hunting tags and hunting equipment73:23there’s that there’s also the the type73:28of relationship you have with your food73:31when you actually work very hard and73:34hunt it and kill it is very different73:36than buying food from a store and I73:40would say similar in a similar way73:42growing food when you go to Whole Foods73:45sometimes you really got to stop that73:47you know there’s there’s a lot that goes73:48into the trip the whole yeah it’s a good73:52parking spot that’s right yeah I get it73:55growing your own food in your backyard73:57is very satisfying to and I would say to74:00people like that’s a microcosm I guess74:03it’s a very micro form of what it feels74:05like to hunt an animal and then eat it74:07and feed your family for you know if I74:08shoot an elk I eat it literally for a74:11year so one animal death equals like a74:14year of my meals and you know there’s74:19also the moral high-ground position you74:21know I think a lot of people love to74:24look at the moral high ground of eating74:27vegetables and only eating vegetables as74:29being a superior way to live their life74:31and that’s that’s a good decision I74:33understand where you’re coming from I74:35understand that there’s people that look74:37at life very differently than me they74:40maybe don’t have the sort of fatalistic74:42perspective even though it’s respectful74:44I have a very fatalistic perspective74:46when it comes to just all organic74:48organisms competing74:50for resources and for life these animals74:54I mean I’ve run into them when they’ve74:55killed each other I’ve seen animals that74:57have been taken out by other animals74:59I’ve come across their bodies torn apart75:00by wolves in in the woods it’s a wild75:03wild thing out there man and I think75:05we’re so insulated by it in the in our75:08culture of today that it’s one of the75:10reasons why veganism and all these75:11things are becoming so attractive I75:13would hope that along with that we’re75:15gonna be nicer to each other that we’re75:17gonna be we’re gonna grow to be a kinder75:19human race I really I really hope you75:21that yeah because I think it’s about75:24consideration you know for me I think75:26was there was a certain part of75:28consciousness that I never ascribed to75:31animals to some extent I mean it’s funny75:33because I always thought of myself as oh75:34I you know I love animals I you know75:36always had dogs and cats you know you’d75:38find a bird with a broken wing just75:39thinking the boss and two weeks later he75:41flies away and you’re a girl but I never75:44really ascribed like individuality to75:46them and I think backwards the change75:48for me was interacting in in an75:53individual way when I get firm on the75:56font yeah you know I always tell my75:59brother once once we named them that’s76:01five yeah you watch them like their76:04plate though they’ll play or they and it76:06just changed my relationship to what I76:12wanted it to be with animals and it just76:16made it untenable in that moment for me76:19but I truly understand like that that is76:23in a really individualized personalized76:28experience that that that I made and76:32like I said I would love it for people76:34to make that connection because I think76:36it’s profound there is there is76:38something about that connection for76:39people that when they do see it you know76:41it’s funny I’ll talk about the pigs and76:44they’ll be like what you know they’re76:48they just eat everything you’re like no76:49they’re really playful they’re smart76:51don’t go nuts you do belly rubs yeah76:54it’s it’s but that was shocking I didn’t76:56know that they’d stop oh it’s like a76:59blob but beings77:02we’re talking about nature John and77:04there’s nothing natural about a farm77:06that’s part of the problem I mean it’s77:07all it’s an animal prison and they’re77:09domesticated because we give them food77:11and we kind of remove the the natural77:13fear that they would have of any you77:15know eyeball facing forward predator77:18which is what we are you know what their77:21health like what having our farm with77:25sheep and goats and pigs and they’re all77:27rescues is like having a nursing home77:30like you can’t believe the fragility of77:34factory farmed animals like they are to77:38be sick like pneumonia like genetically77:43the design to gain too much weight for77:46their legs it really is you know the77:50island of misfit took like they’ve77:51genetically modified or done whatever77:53they’ve done and and the health of these77:57animals that are in our food supply yeah78:00that our mainstay of our food supply is78:02really suspect78:04yeah that’s why nursing them yeah that’s78:07why I prefer hunting the when if you’re78:09eating an animal that’s a wild animal78:12you’re eating an athlete I mean they’re78:14they’re sinewy and thick and they’re78:16strong and they survived and there’s so78:19much more nutrient-dense78:21when you’re when you’re talking about78:23factory farmed animals you’re talking78:24about I mean well factory fired animals78:26is the worst version of what human78:29beings are capable of they were capable78:30of ignoring suffering to the point we78:32lock them all in warehouses they’re78:34pissed goes down in a tunnel and fills a78:36small lake up and they’ve flown over78:38these places with drones it’s horrific78:39right the pig farms in particularly78:41they’re horrific but when you’re talking78:44about what you’re doing on your farm78:47like of course you can’t eat those78:48things they’re your pets that would be I78:50mean you’re naming them and flying them78:52and touching them but I extrapolate that78:55now so my I think what happened was I78:57went all right that’s in the same way79:00that like I love my dog but if you have79:03a dog I wouldn’t kill your dog running79:06eat because I look at dogs now in a79:09different way so I think I extrapolate79:10to the79:13animal kingdom in a way that different I79:15had it I feel like because of my wife79:17and she’s been she’s a much kinder79:20smarter version of me so because of her79:26kind of showing me that relationship and79:28experiencing myself like it’s just79:30changed the way that I view it and79:33that’s been and it kind of takes us back79:35around to the earlier part of the79:37conversation because when you think79:38about animal agriculture and you talk79:39about those hog farms where are they79:41located they’re located in the poorest79:43neighborhoods right they locate any79:46environmental damage that they do is79:48also damage that’s done to poor rural79:52communities that live around them now79:55I’m not suggesting that there’s not79:56economic there’s an economic incentive79:59and an industry around it and certainly80:02not you know you don’t just end80:04industries but reform again like it it80:10certainly Georgia P Bush said this he80:14was talking about Donald Trump because80:15I’m gonna support Donald Trump because80:18Donald Trump is the only thing standing80:20between America and socialism and I was80:24like the only thing standing between80:26American socialism is an inability to80:29meaningfully reform capitalism and it’s80:32more damaging effects and if we can’t do80:35that then the people take to the streets80:38I think reform like Bernie was talking80:43about those other guys that will save80:45capitalism that will save democracy by80:48showing that we recognize that there is80:51collateral damage to the systems that we80:54use to gain wealth and to gain power and80:57if we can reform those systems81:00meaningfully for the people who suffer81:03most terribly under them we save it but81:08if we can the best deal gets stormed81:11like that’s just what Kennedy say if you81:13make peaceful evolution impossible you81:15make violent revolution inevitable yeah81:17so we I think at some point we have to81:20demonstrate the81:21we’ll and the stamina to be able to81:24attack these problems and that’s why I’m81:26holding Joe Rogan ah yeah no I think81:31everyone agrees but everyone feels like81:33their hands are tied and again I think81:35that’s one of the reasons why these81:37protests and just this this whole81:39explosion after George Floyd has been so81:43transformative I think because people81:45recognize like this is a real moment of81:47change and of course opportunists and81:49looters and all kinds of other crazy81:50[ __ ] happened along the way but it’s it81:53speaks to the fact that there’s so many81:55people in street it’s beats it speaks to81:57this this like we can actually do81:59something now we’ve got momentum let’s82:01keep it moving82:02are you hopeful yes I’m always hopeful82:04I’m very optimistic even though I have a82:06fatalistic perspective exact same82:10in these terrible times how do you82:12remain Oakland I’m like because better82:15people outnumber shitty people yes a82:17long shot they dish that’s just the82:20truth there was some time powerless82:23sometimes we may act out of fear or82:26resource part whatever that is good82:28better people outnumber shady people by82:31launch and we’re in an adolescent stage82:34of our evolution of as a civilization82:37it’s growing and changing there’s never82:39been a civilization like us today and82:41we’re growing and changing to try to82:44suit our real sensibilities and to try82:47to to try to get better at this [ __ ]82:49thing and not just accept this old crazy82:52corrupt structure that’s existed forever82:55thank you yeah you put a little fire in82:58my belly like this like I really enjoyed83:03I’ve really enjoyed the conversation83:05this is man I always enjoy talking to83:07you I appreciate you very much and I83:09don’t get to see you enough all right my83:11friend and hopefully when this all ends83:14everybody can gather again at the you83:16know at the store and had do a good set83:19and talk some shared with each other and83:20have some fun let’s do it brother83:22take care my friend and good luck with83:23your film irresistible it’s out when now83:28tomorrow tomorrow please jump83:33thank you my brother thank you sir bye83:34[Applause]83:38[Music]83:39[Applause]83:44[Music]
What explains elite contempt for Joe Rogan? – System Update with Glenn Greenwald
<iframe width=”560″ height=”315″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/S0tFgPG26vA?start=3766″ frameborder=”0″ allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture” allowfullscreen></iframe>very soon thereafter she converted58:57into a real enemy she emerged two months58:59later and wrote this59:01article aggressively condemning the idea59:04that trans women should be able to59:06compete in female athletic and female59:10athletics because it the the the kind of59:13intolerance for her even asking59:17converted her it alienated her converted59:19her into an enemy and59:20it seems like people who don’t care59:22about outcomes are about winning59:24really don’t get bothered by that but59:27let me just ask you about one59:28the kind of the last um59:32kind of prong of the case of the liberal59:34case against joe rogan i find this one59:36really interesting59:37too which is you know people say59:41okay fine he he liked bernie like tulsi59:45um and yet i believe in 2016 if i’m not59:48mistaken59:50he said that he was voting for trump59:51over hillary59:53and i’m certain that after saying that59:56he59:56thought bernie was the best candidate59:58and really like tulsi59:59he’s now saying i can’t vote for biden i60:02probably would vote for trump over biden60:05which would is leading ripples to say to60:07people like you60:09why would we possibly why should we60:12possibly regard somebody60:14as an ally who is60:18saying twice now that they’re going to60:19vote for donald trump and i guess like60:21an60:21ancillary part of that question is you60:24know there is this phenomenon of people60:26who twice voted60:27for barack obama and then voted for60:29donald trump in 201660:31not a small number a large number and60:33here in brazil60:34same thing you know a lot of people who60:35voted for bolsonaro in 201860:38were people who voted for the workers60:40party four consecutive60:42elections so if you’re kind of a60:44political junkie who relies on the60:46polarization of choose between rachel60:48maddow and sean hanovey60:50it doesn’t make any sense that somebody60:52could do that to say i like bernie60:54but i’m gonna vote for trump because you60:56have to pick an ideological box60:58and joe rogan clearly is a person61:01who doesn’t think that way and i think61:03there’s like this liberal sense that61:05that makes him bizarre when in fact61:07i think it makes him pretty common it’s61:09one of the reasons why people like him61:11because he’s not in one of those boxes61:13but what do you say to liberals who61:15would make that argument that how can we61:17consider somebody supporting61:19this authoritarian racist for president61:22to be an ally61:25well i mean there are two things that61:26you you have to kind of61:29kind of set the record straight on first61:31is that i i’m pretty sure in 2016 he61:33voted for gary johnson so he voted for a61:35libertarian i don’t think he voted for61:37trump in 2016.61:39um and in 2020 again he first you know61:42supported tulsi61:43then he supported bernie um and then61:46most recently if you really61:48look at his comments it’s not that he’s61:49saying he’s endorsing trump but he’s61:51saying that61:52he would he would vote for trump um61:55as a result of the party choosing biden61:57because he just doesn’t think biden can61:59do the job62:00just from a kind of mental age62:04decline standpoint so it’s not like the62:06most heartfelt support of trump but yeah62:08i mean62:08let’s set that aside and just say okay62:10like he’s willing to vote for trump62:12right62:12um i mean the idea that you wouldn’t62:15want to engage62:16someone who is willing to go from the62:19most62:20liberal the most left candidate in the62:23democratic primary and willing to then62:26switch over to trump62:27i mean you know it’s the argument that62:29the left’s been making62:30for you know for years now right that62:33like62:33these this is the is the guy to be62:36studying right he’s the one that we can62:38kind of crack the code on62:40um as for you know why that’s the case62:43i think it’s real again it’s really62:45threatening i don’t think62:46you know i think the democratic62:48establishment what i tend to tell people62:49is that the democratic establishment62:52their main priority is not really to62:54actually even win elections62:56it’s to keep control of the democratic62:58party right like that’s where most of63:00their power comes from it’s certainly63:01where63:02their most reliable source of power63:04comes from it’s keeping control of the63:05party because as long as you can63:07keep control of the party and you keep63:08control of the cultural63:10um levers of power in the country63:13you’re always going to be able to63:15command 5063:16of the political system you’re always63:18going to be able to command63:20um you know the entire media apparatus63:23that’s devoted to politics right you’re63:25good63:25or at least half of it right you’re63:27going to in control the liberal half63:29and so i think it’s i i mean i it’s63:32i’m sorry to say but i think it’s a63:34really cynical calculation63:36that cultural elites and democratic63:39party elites are making when they make63:41these decisions because when when you63:43engage joe rogan63:45and you engage his viewers you’re being63:47bringing in63:48a ton of people who you can’t63:50necessarily rely on to keep these clean63:52lines of political and cultural63:54engagement you’re63:55you’re completely blowing up the63:57political system you’re you’re blowing63:59up the racket64:00right and why would you want to do that64:02because at the end of the day64:04hell trump could get reelected and64:05they’d still control the party they can64:07still control the other half they’d be64:10raising hundreds of millions of dollars64:12for their think tanks and therefore you64:14know the media institutions and so64:16it’s a great racket why would you risk64:18that just for64:19winning you know the presidency for64:21maybe four years eight years64:22don’t get me wrong obviously they’d like64:24to win that too64:26but i don’t think that’s the real game i64:27don’t think that’s ever been the real64:28game64:30we saw that in the uk right where the64:33centrists and playwrights and moderates64:36who controlled the labor party64:38levers of power forever whether they64:40were in power out of power64:42when they lost control of their own64:44party to jeremy corbyn64:46they it was very obvious if you’re just64:48paying minimal attention but we now know64:50from documents that have been leaked and64:51reports that have been issued64:53they were actively working against the64:56labor party they preferred64:58to destroy corbyn and retake control65:01of the party even if it meant empowering65:04the tories and making boris johnson65:06prime minister because as you say65:09their top priority is ensuring that they65:11maintain65:12control of their party and secondary65:15or even more distantly is actually65:18winning elections65:19um and you know i think that you know65:22it’s like when people ask me why i go on65:23tucker carlson i65:24can barely even understand the question65:26because it’s such an obvious answer65:28which is65:29because there are four million people65:30watching and whatever percentage it is65:33that i can reach in any way not65:34necessarily change their minds instantly65:37but just kind of make them a little more65:38open65:39to hearing from different people maybe65:41get them kind of unsettled about65:44who they should be paying attention to65:46or introducing some ideas that maybe65:48maybe it’s ten percent maybe it’s five65:50percent maybe it’s fifteen percent65:52why would i ignore that if i actually65:54care about outcomes65:55to watch you know i i it kind of shocked65:58me edward snowden65:59uh appeared on rogan’s show for the66:02second time this week and so i went back66:03to look at what the audience was the66:05first time he appeared which is66:06about 10 months ago and even though66:09edward snowden being edward snowden kind66:11of spoke in like a monologue form for66:13about66:14three hours you know and he was66:16obviously remote because he couldn’t66:18go to the studio since he’s trapped in66:19russia the audience for that66:22appearance from edward snowden just on66:25youtube never mind all the other66:26platforms66:27was 15 million people 15 million66:31um which is you know four or five times66:34the size66:35of a primetime cable host even on their66:37best night66:38and obviously by virtue the fact that66:40you watch it that people66:42listen to it and can hear him say i66:44support tulsi or i support66:46bernie obviously there’s huge numbers of66:48those66:49that audience that are very reachable66:51from a liberal perspective66:53anybody who says i don’t want to have66:56anything to do66:57with a show that reaches 15 million66:59people67:00is somebody to me who’s saying67:04i look at politics as about everything67:06other than67:07winning wielding power and changing the67:10world67:11right right and they shrouded in moral67:13language right they shrouded67:15in how could you associate with someone67:17like that how could you you’ll be67:18tainted by someone like that67:20um they shrouded in those things but at67:22the end of the day it’s a much more67:24cynical calculation it’s67:25it’s put forth as some kind of moral67:28decr67:29declaration but it’s really a cynical67:31calculation67:32calculation in terms of controlling the67:33party in terms of controlling cultural67:36power centers67:37why would we want to upset that this is67:40a great setup67:41um and yeah that’s why you see 1567:43million people tuning in to edward67:45snowden because it completely cult67:47cuts across all of these cultural lines67:50i mean there aren’t67:51you know being interested in edward67:53snowden just his story and what he did67:55and the cultural and political impact he67:57had67:58that’s not a liberal or conservative68:00idea that’s68:01that’s reaching millions of people um68:03but that’s just not interesting to68:05um what informs the you know the the68:08careers and the lifestyles of the people68:10that68:11sort of hold these both the political68:13and cultural68:14levers of power in the country yeah so68:16yeah so thanks very much for68:18for taking the time i i think is a68:20really important topic not just68:22because it’s important to understand the68:24phenomenon of joe rogan although that68:25is important there are very few people68:28having the kind of cultural68:30and political impact that he’s having68:34um in a reaching a group of people who68:38often tune out politics or who aren’t68:40engaged in the traditional ways which68:42makes him68:44even more important than just the68:45numbers alone but i do think too68:47the reaction to him tells us a lot about68:50how media figures view their position68:52how liberals view what their political68:54project uh is and so68:56um i i think your your analysis on69:00twitter and the discussion that we just69:02had69:02um has really clarified those issues in69:05in a really helpful way so thank you so69:07much for69:08taking the time to talk to me um and i69:10hope people will tune into your69:13back channel youtube program where69:14you’re doing a lot of these kind of69:15header docs69:17uh discussions with people across a wide69:20range of69:21ideological and cultural uh belief69:24systems so
What explains elite contempt for Joe Rogan? – System Update with Glenn Greenwald
35:27great you know there’s just tremendous35:29homogeneity now in in american culture35:32right35:32uh it’s the idea that these are the35:34types of people35:36who should be both in charge35:39of talking about liberal left35:42politics and who should really be in35:44charge of the country in general there35:45are people who right now have cultural35:46hegemony in this country35:48right um and it’s the idea that these35:51people35:52are sort of the these are the people who35:55embody35:56what should be american morality right35:58now right these are the people who36:00embody what that is and36:01should hold the cultural level levers of36:04power in the country and who36:05should have the power to be speaking on36:09uh the important topics of the day36:12so that’s sort of what i mean by that36:14what is joe what does joe rogan36:16lack on that list of36:20attributes that people think define36:22those who should be36:23exerting influence and power over our36:25discourse in politics36:27well i think what he lacks is i mean36:30the most important thing he lacks is36:33the um willingness to exclude everyone36:36else from the debate who isn’t a part of36:39that culture i mean i think that’s36:40probably the primary thing that enrages36:43them36:43is that he i mean one of the reasons why36:47his show is so popular is that it’s a36:49really powerful cross-pollination36:51of ideas of different fields of36:53different36:54industries people from all these36:56different walks of life36:58um it’s you know it’s it’s a great37:00reflection of internet culture you know37:01one of the reasons why the show is so37:03popular is that it kind of operates on37:04internet time37:06right as opposed to you know cable news37:08that37:09is kind of really slow to pick up on37:11things probably because of its older37:12demographic whereas37:14joe rogan is able to seize on something37:16that appeared on a message board37:17yesterday right and i mean even if you37:19watch his show37:20um they’re able to fact that fat check37:23themselves in real time right he’s got37:25his sidekick there jamie who37:27pulls something up to verify whether37:29what joe37:30what joe just said is totally full of37:32i mean that’s not something you’re37:33going to see chris hayes do37:35or sean hannity do right like that’s37:37just not the way it works37:38everyone’s online today i mean the37:41entire country is essentially getting37:4237:43and facebook and all that jazz like why37:45bother37:46doing it in this particular medium that37:49has an inherent time constraint37:51well you’re right i mean the internet37:53has revolutionized37:55politics and in many ways good ways we37:58use37:59our social media our email list which is38:01very large38:02we every day we’re sending out stuff and38:04other candidates are doing it the same38:05way38:05but television still has a very38:07important role to be playing um and so38:09probably it’s it’s partly that uh and38:12it’s38:12and it’s partly you know his his38:15willingness38:16to transgress on issues that are38:19considered38:20sacred right not necessarily obviously38:23the big one nowadays is the trans issue38:25the transgenderism issue38:26he’s willing to talk about that and he’s38:28willing to bring in38:30um perspectives on it that right now38:33liberals are just have38:34zero zero tolerance for um and so38:38so let me let me let’s stop there for a38:40second so38:42you know i’m i’m i’m i to kind of38:46present what i think would be the38:49best or strongest case that a liberal38:52would make for why joe rogan ought to be38:54regarded38:56certainly not as an ally and even as an38:58enemy38:59and one is the one that you just put39:01your finger on so this week there was a39:03report in vice39:05that employees of sportify which is the39:08platform that essentially just paid joe39:10rogan39:11in excess of 100 million dollars for his39:14show exclusively to appear there39:16are upset um and it came from39:20how they what they described themselves39:22as being lgbtq39:24a i plus employees39:28and allies so not just the lgbtqai plus39:33employees but also their allies are39:36upset because39:38in particular he has had on his show39:41number one an author who has argued39:45that there are times when young people39:49are influenced to believe39:53that they have gender dysphoria and to39:55even begin39:56irreversible transitions when in fact40:00they don’t have gender dysphoria because40:02of the culture that is encouraging them40:05to think that to what40:06in other words questioning whether young40:08people are being misdiagnosed40:10with gender dysphoria who don’t in fact40:12have it and there are definitely people40:14who40:14have said that they have been that40:16they’ve gone through that process only40:17to realize that40:19that wasn’t their issue so that was one40:22of the problems is just40:23airing an author who did research and40:26science40:27who said that to some extent people are40:30being misdiagnosed40:31and then i guess the other one was him40:33being an mma fan40:35a fighting fan as you alluded to earlier40:38questioning whether it’s fair40:40to allow uh trans women who40:44live their lives uh as biological men40:47who went through puberty as biological40:49men who developed muscle mass and40:50hormones and40:52um the entire physiology of a man to40:55then40:56transition and compete with cis women41:00something that people like martina41:01navratilova who’s been a long time41:04advocate for trans people have asked as41:06well and that41:07essentially this demonstrates his41:09willingness not just to air these41:11views but to even kind of wonder them41:13himself41:14suggests that he’s transphobic which is41:16a form of bigotry41:18and we ought not to have any kind of41:21alliance with41:22or support for people who are bigots41:25that’s one of the41:27cases that is made against joe oregon41:29why isn’t that valid41:30so i mean it goes to the point that i41:32that the question you just asked41:34me and the point that i made which is41:36that you know41:38what makes what makes it what makes joe41:41rogan41:41seen as not an ally and you know41:45what makes him come across as not an41:47ally is that he is not41:48actively engaged in the culture war41:50right i mean what’s so crucial to people41:53who are actually41:54actively engaged in liberal culture war41:56is that you have to be41:58actively seen as saying you know this is42:00our line and anyone who does not42:03um hew to this line is the enemy right42:06and if you’re not42:06a part if you’re not a part of the42:08solution you’re a part of the problem42:09essentially42:10and so when joe rogan someone like joe42:12rogan comes along and says hey there are42:14some interesting issues here hey42:16let’s talk about this hey there are some42:18certain scientific studies42:19that immediately raises all the alarms42:22in people’s heads42:24saying that uh oh this is not one of us42:26this is not one of the allies right like42:28this isn’t someone who is going42:30to be doing the work that we define42:32ourselves by42:33the work of advancing the culture war42:37right and if you’re not advancing the42:39culture war42:40then you’re as good as the enemy if not42:42the enemy is ironic right because like42:44george george bush’s42:45911 formulation that liberals42:48incessantly not just mock but we’re42:51very alarmed by was that you know42:54every country has a choice you’re with42:56us or you’re with the terrorists it’s42:58one or the other there’s no middle43:00ground if you’re not43:02actively supporting what we’re doing43:03we’re going to regard you as an43:05ally of the terrorists or even one of43:08the terrorists and that means that43:10for example in the culture war you43:13become the enemy not merely by43:16advocating against trans rights but43:20questioning the premises the science43:23behind the implications of these very43:25profound social changes43:27that a lot of people are advocating43:29right and and that’s what you saw from43:30this vice article right43:32um it was actually a perfect case study43:35i mean first of all the headline said43:37joe rogan’s transphobic episode or43:40something like that or43:41transphobic joe rogan you know it43:43clearly editorialized before you even43:45you didn’t i mean you didn’t even have43:47to read the article right like you you43:48just read the headline and you know43:50exactly what the article is saying43:52but beyond that it also completely43:55sidestepped the debate as we’re just43:56saying now right43:58this episode that they’re talking about43:59that that’s causing all the drama44:01internally and spotify if you watch it44:04there’s44:04two important things to know about it44:06first of all before44:08anything happened and again the reason44:10why this stuff works so well is because44:12no one actually listens to the episodes44:13who care involved in this44:15in this war right in these battles44:16because or they see44:18like one minute chosen snippets44:20deliberately selected to44:22cast it in the responsible light right44:26right exactly but so he starts off right44:28off the bat and he’s44:29and he says this episode is not about44:31adults right44:32this is not about trans adults we44:34completely believe in trans adult rights44:37we believe in their identities44:38we are completely supportive of them um44:41i joe rogan and completely a supporter44:45of trans adults right so that’s44:46important to set aside44:48um because right off the bat you know44:50that he’s not talking about44:52tran the idea of transgenderism in44:54general obviously right44:56you can’t i’ve heard him say before i’ve44:58heard him say before45:00not only do i fully support the complete45:04range and panoply of45:07robust equal legal rights for trans45:09people45:10and not only do i believe that they have45:12the absolute right to live their lives45:14with full and complete dignity and45:15liberty45:16which is consistent with his overall45:18philosophy i’ve heard him say45:20i have nothing but love in my heart for45:22trans people in fact45:23admiration for people who are willing to45:27defy societal convention to be45:29who they are so it’s almost like even on45:32the question of trans issues45:34from a liberal perspective he’s way45:38ahead of45:39the vast majority of where the45:40population is in terms of how he talks45:42about it45:43um so you’re right he he carves out this45:47kind of45:48you know um territory that he’s saying45:51i’m not45:52questioning the rights fully of trans45:55adults to live a complete and full45:57life filled with dignity and love um46:01so what is it that that became46:02problematic46:04so what became problematic is that you46:06know the rest of the show46:08is devoted to the issue of children46:11who you know children teenagers46:15people going through adolescence who46:18come across the idea of transgenderism46:21and think that maybe transgenderism has46:24some kind of answers46:26for what may be the natural kind of46:29patterns and challenges that children go46:32through in young age46:33um you know normally and also you know46:36in these days46:37we’re suffering through a mental health46:38crisis right one that probably46:40even preceded um coded but has just been46:44amped up46:44greatly during covid right but generally46:47the46:47the idea and the author of the book who46:49i will say you know the the author of46:51the book the title46:52was a little bit sensationalist and i46:54think that’s probably driving a46:56little bit you know it’s something like46:57they’re coming for our daughters or46:58something like that which you know47:00listen i if i was advising someone to47:02write a book that you want well received47:03broadly47:04you might do a better job with the title47:06but and that’s not and that’s not a book47:09written by joe it’s not a book written47:10by joe rogan it’s a book written47:14not always favorably right he47:16interrogated that person on47:17a lot of those premises exactly and he47:20did and he did do a good job of actually47:22kind of talking about the cover and47:23saying well why did you go with this47:24cover47:25and i mean it was he did this job on47:27that end actually right47:28um but more importantly this entire47:32episode was talking about47:33whether there’s an issue with kids47:37that you know kind of exploring47:39transgenderism and actually47:41moving forward with it when maybe it’s47:43not it maybe it’s47:44sort of a product of just a tumultuous47:47adolescence and maybe47:49allowing children to do this and engage47:51in this is maybe not the right move47:53essentially saying47:54maybe these children who think they’re47:55trans aren’t actually trans and maybe we47:58should be47:58engaging the science engaging um48:02engaging the experts on this issue to48:04kind of sort this out so that48:06you know we’re not we’re not kind of48:09sending people48:10on this path that will sort of you know48:12uproot their lives and48:14things that they’ll have to undo later48:16on and just causing more trauma into48:18adulthood right48:19it’s a way to argue against that which48:20is to say well no we’ve talked to the48:22experts and the experts say this isn’t a48:24widespread48:25issue or when we interrogate these48:27children who think they might be trans48:29there are real reasons why they think48:31they are or you know look into that48:33literature48:33bring it up bring the experts in and48:35actually engage this debate but of48:37course that’s not what they’re in for48:38right like this that’s not what this is48:40about48:40this is about immediately kind of48:43shutting down the debate48:44and saying okay you’re on the you’re not48:47you’re not advancing48:49the the cause the trans cause and the48:51broader culture cause so you’re clearly48:52part of the problem you’re not being an48:54ally right and that’s why48:56this word ally is has become so48:58important and this broader kind of49:00critical theory culture war49:02um dynamic is because this idea of ally49:07it’s not just it’s not a it’s not just49:09an affirmational49:11kind of identity of being an ally but49:12it’s a negational identity right what49:14it’s saying is that49:15if you’re an ally it means you’re49:17actually part of this49:19right you’re not you’re not someone who49:21is just letting it happen or working49:23against us if you’re not an ally49:25it’s not just that you’re being lazy49:26they’re not trying to you know when they49:28say you’re not an ally what they’re49:29saying is that you’re the enemy49:31right yeah you know there’s several49:32there’s there’s a couple things really49:34interesting to me about that which is49:36obviously part of my formative49:38experience in49:39being politically engaged was being part49:43of the gay rights movement49:44in the late 80s or even the mid 80s to49:48late 80s when i kind of came of age as49:51a gay teenager in the reagan years there49:53was obviously just like there is against49:56trans people now it sustained an49:57organized demonization campaign49:59right obviously the people who were just50:02you know50:03close-minded malicious bigots50:06were not people that you regarded as50:08allies those are people you were willing50:09to kind of demonize and scorn but the50:11reason why50:13that debate ended up being won by50:16advocates of50:17gay equality was because we were50:19constantly searching for ways to50:22engage people and to change their minds50:24and50:25encouraging those questions to be asked50:27based on the recognition50:29that if you want to usher in very50:31profound50:32changes to how society functions50:35and do so in a way that requires a50:38majority to support you50:40even though the majority is not um part50:43of the group who’s50:45on be on whose behalf you’re advocating50:48dialogue50:48and engagement is crucial and so people50:51who want to50:52engage and ask questions are are things50:54that you’re happy about not people that50:56you want to denounce50:57the other thing i find so um51:00kind of baffling and confounding about51:03this51:04taboo on asking in particular51:07whether or not children or teenagers are51:11being51:12uh misdiagnosed with gender dysphoria51:15for cultural reasons or social reasons51:17or because the51:18the understanding of it is so51:19preliminary um51:21aside from the fact that just in general51:23you want medicine and science and51:26mental health uh professionals always51:29asking51:30whether misdiagnoses are taking place51:32but51:33there’s this kind of morality now as i51:35know all too well and as people have51:37been seeing51:38you know it’s kind of made its51:40appearance in the alex morse51:41scandal where there’s this now51:44growing uh orthodoxy among51:49in left global politics that if you’re a51:51young adult51:5323 21 20 you lack the capacity to make51:58decisions for yourself that are truly52:00consensual about who you want to date52:02who you want to have sex with52:03frequently people cite neurological52:06research that says your brain isn’t52:07fully formed52:09and that therefore if someone is 28 or52:1130 like alex morse was52:13he shouldn’t be dating or having sex52:14with 21 or 22 year olds even if they say52:17they want to52:18because 21 and 22 year olds aren’t52:20capable of making52:21a much a pretty limited choice do i want52:23to have sex with this person on this52:25particular night or date them and yet52:27those same people who say that 21 year52:30olds or 20 year olds52:31aren’t capable of deciding for52:33themselves whether to date an older52:35person or whether to have sex with an52:36older person52:37want to put it off limits whether a 1452:41year old or a 15 year old52:43is sufficiently mature and has the52:46emotional sophistication52:48to make permanent life-altering52:50decisions about52:51what their gender is to the point of52:53having surgeries or52:55hormonal treatments that will alter52:57themselves52:59forever um and you know i think that53:03um one of the53:07kind of uh phenomenon that we’re seeing53:10in liberal53:10culture increasingly that’s reflected in53:13this treatment of joe robin53:15rogan as a homophobe not for saying53:17anything disparaging53:19about trans people or advocating against53:21equal rights quite the contrary53:23he he he doesn’t do that he advocates53:26for rights53:27is the idea that simply asking questions53:29even in response to things that probably53:31ought to be interrogated53:33is considered itself almost as bad as53:37malice and bigotry itself they’re kind53:40of equated53:41in a way that just will inherently repel53:44people from a political movement that53:46says53:47that if you have questions you have no53:49right to ask them and simply asking them53:51makes you a bad person53:53right and and the the i think the uh the53:56tying53:56kind of thread there is that this is53:59again it’s it’s about this delineation54:02that we have to make between liberal54:04politics and liberal culture54:05and the culture war um this is very much54:08about54:09a culture that has de-prioritized54:12political outcomes right54:14uh we see that with your example that54:16you just made54:17um with the gay rights movement we also54:19saw that with the alex morse campaign54:20right54:21we saw people who were much more focused54:24on maintaining54:25the integrity and the purity of the54:28battle they’re engaged in culturally54:30even at the expense of achieving real54:33political outcomes54:34right and as you just said you know54:36engaging debates is54:38is how you actually you know having that54:41cross-pollination of ideas54:42and and actually persuading people54:44actually engaging in persuasion54:47um rather than just kind of identifying54:49who’s on in my tribe who’s in your tribe54:51that’s how you achieve political54:53outcomes it was the same with the alex54:54morse right where it was54:56an allegation was made and we54:58immediately have to believe the54:59allegation55:00not investigate it because if you are a55:03you know if you’re a denier or if you55:05even hesitate to believe55:07what’s happening then you are not55:09promoting this broader idea55:12that there are victims in the world and55:14we’re not55:15kind of invested further investing in55:16the idea of victimization right55:19um victimization is this really core55:21concept to this culture where right like55:23we have to believe that there are55:24victims and we have to always support55:27the creation of new categories of55:28victimhood and if we don’t and if we’re55:31not engaged in that struggle55:33then we’re not pushing the culture war55:34and again it just shows55:36that maintaining the integrity of this55:38culture war is far55:39more important than even the political55:41outcomes and i think there may be some55:43very tangible reasons for that i think55:45a lot of the people that are engaged in55:46this stuff are people who do derive55:49power from cult power powerful cultural55:51centers right they work in academia55:54they work in the media and that’s how55:55they exert their power55:57over politics and over society because55:59again culture is how56:01we talk about ideas culture is how56:04we mold political ideas and say which56:07ideas can connect together which people56:09can connect together who can56:10hang out with who how cool you know56:13culture builds coalitions right56:16it builds political coalitions so um56:19i think there’s a very real reason why56:22people56:22are very concerned about maintaining the56:25integrity of this liberal culture56:28it’s because that’s where they derive56:30their power and in fact56:32you know they’re i mean it’s not a56:34surprise to see especially56:35now seeing cultural elites feel so56:38disempowered democratically right they56:40feel so politically disempowered56:43um that they would kind of throw56:45themselves completely into this culture56:47war because that’s the only place where56:48they can exert their power now right56:50and that’s why we see these insane sorts56:53of um56:55kind of concessions to even corporate56:57culture where they’re56:59so excited to allow corporations to57:01censor57:02free speech they’re so excited to allow57:04hr departments to and you know57:06indoctrinate people and run57:08programs on people and force people in57:09these programs where the people are57:11literally denouncing themselves because57:13of the way they’re born57:14it’s exerting power through culture57:16because you can’t do it politically57:18anymore politically it’s a lot harder57:20you have to get the people on your side57:21why would you want to get the people on57:23your side that’s a pain in the ass57:24so yeah exactly um so57:28and and i do think it’s interesting as57:30well that57:31that this whole concept of whether you57:33care about power or not because57:35you know i watched i mentioned martina57:37navratilova earlier who um57:40you know is obviously a person who i pay57:42attention to i’ve talked about before57:44and written about before how she was my57:45childhood hero57:46i was working on a film about her and it57:48was amazing to watch57:49that this person who is like one of the57:52main 20th century pioneers57:54of feminism she did as much to create57:58space for the ability of female athletes58:01to compete on equal terms with male58:03athletes in terms of money and58:04sponsorships and58:05corporations is probably anybody except58:08for billie jean king58:09she had a trans coach in 1883 and was58:11defending58:13not just lgbts and was one of the few58:14openly gay celebrities or athletes of58:17that era58:18you know all she kind of did was say hey58:21i’m kind of confused58:23is all you is the only thing you have to58:25do to enter58:26female professional sports and win all58:29the cash58:30awards and and prizes and trophies is58:34declare yourself a woman or are there58:35protocols58:36she was really asking earnestly and58:39in response she was just mauled um58:42with no generosity no kind of58:46you know uh consideration for her whole58:48history she was just instantly declared58:50a bigot the more she tried to defend58:52herself58:53the worse it got and then eventually58:55very soon thereafter she converted58:57into a real enemy she emerged two months58:59later and wrote this59:01article aggressively condemning the idea59:04that trans women should be able to59:06compete in female athletic and female59:10athletics because it the the the kind of59:13intolerance for her even asking59:17converted her it alienated her converted59:19her into an enemy and59:20it seems like people who don’t care59:22about outcomes are about winning59:24really don’t get bothered by that but59:27let me just ask you about one59:28the kind of the last um59:32kind of prong of the case of the liberal59:34case against joe rogan i find this one59:36really interesting59:37too which is you know people say59:41okay fine he he liked bernie like tulsi59:45um and yet i believe in 2016 if i’m not59:48mistaken59:50he said that he was voting for trump59:51over hillary59:53and i’m certain that after saying that59:56he59:56thought bernie was the best candidate59:58and really like tulsi59:59he’s now saying i can’t vote for biden i60:02probably would vote for trump over biden60:05which would is leading ripples to say to60:07people like you60:09why would we possibly why should we60:12possibly regard somebody60:14as an ally who is60:18saying twice now that they’re going to60:19vote for donald trump and i guess like60:21an60:21ancillary part of that question is you60:24know there is this phenomenon of people60:26who twice voted60:27for barack obama and then voted for60:29donald trump in 201660:31not a small number a large number and60:33here in brazil60:34same thing you know a lot of people who60:35voted for bolsonaro in 201860:38were people who voted for the workers60:40party four consecutive60:42elections so if you’re kind of a60:44political junkie who relies on the60:46polarization of choose between rachel60:48maddow and sean hanovey60:50it doesn’t make any sense that somebody60:52could do that to say i like bernie60:54but i’m gonna vote for trump because you60:56have to pick an ideological box60:58and joe rogan clearly is a person61:01who doesn’t think that way and i think61:03there’s like this liberal sense that61:05that makes him bizarre when in fact61:07i think it makes him pretty common it’s61:09one of the reasons why people like him61:11because he’s not in one of those boxes61:13but what do you say to liberals who61:15would make that argument that how can we61:17consider somebody supporting61:19this authoritarian racist for president61:22to be an ally61:25well i mean there are two things that61:26you you have to kind of61:29kind of set the record straight on first61:31is that i i’m pretty sure in 2016 he61:33voted for gary johnson so he voted for a61:35libertarian i don’t think he voted for61:37trump in 2016.61:39um and in 2020 again he first you know61:42supported tulsi61:43then he supported bernie um and then61:46most recently if you really61:48look at his comments it’s not that he’s61:49saying he’s endorsing trump but he’s61:51saying that61:52he would he would vote for trump um61:55as a result of the party choosing biden61:57because he just doesn’t think biden can61:59do the job62:00just from a kind of mental age62:04decline standpoint so it’s not like the62:06most heartfelt support of trump but yeah62:08i mean62:08let’s set that aside and just say okay62:10like he’s willing to vote for trump62:12right62:12um i mean the idea that you wouldn’t62:15want to engage62:16someone who is willing to go from the62:19most62:20liberal the most left candidate in the62:23democratic primary and willing to then62:26switch over to trump62:27i mean you know it’s the argument that62:29the left’s been making62:30for you know for years now right that62:33like62:33these this is the is the guy to be62:36studying right he’s the one that we can62:38kind of crack the code on62:40um as for you know why that’s the case62:43i think it’s real again it’s really62:45threatening i don’t think62:46you know i think the democratic62:48establishment what i tend to tell people62:49is that the democratic establishment62:52their main priority is not really to62:54actually even win elections62:56it’s to keep control of the democratic62:58party right like that’s where most of63:00their power comes from it’s certainly63:01where63:02their most reliable source of power63:04comes from it’s keeping control of the63:05party because as long as you can63:07keep control of the party and you keep63:08control of the cultural63:10um levers of power in the country63:13you’re always going to be able to63:15command 5063:16of the political system you’re always63:18going to be able to command63:20um you know the entire media apparatus63:23that’s devoted to politics right you’re63:25good63:25or at least half of it right you’re63:27going to in control the liberal half63:29and so i think it’s i i mean i it’s63:32i’m sorry to say but i think it’s a63:34really cynical calculation63:36that cultural elites and democratic63:39party elites are making when they make63:41these decisions because when when you63:43engage joe rogan63:45and you engage his viewers you’re being63:47bringing in63:48a ton of people who you can’t63:50necessarily rely on to keep these clean63:52lines of political and cultural63:54engagement you’re63:55you’re completely blowing up the63:57political system you’re you’re blowing63:59up the racket64:00right and why would you want to do that64:02because at the end of the day64:04hell trump could get reelected and64:05they’d still control the party they can64:07still control the other half they’d be64:10raising hundreds of millions of dollars64:12for their think tanks and therefore you64:14know the media institutions and so64:16it’s a great racket why would you risk64:18that just for64:19winning you know the presidency for64:21maybe four years eight years64:22don’t get me wrong obviously they’d like64:24to win that too64:26but i don’t think that’s the real game i64:27don’t think that’s ever been the real64:28game64:30we saw that in the uk right where the64:33centrists and playwrights and moderates64:36who controlled the labor party64:38levers of power forever whether they64:40were in power out of power64:42when they lost control of their own64:44party to jeremy corbyn64:46they it was very obvious if you’re just64:48paying minimal attention but we now know64:50from documents that have been leaked and64:51reports that have been issued64:53they were actively working against the64:56labor party they preferred64:58to destroy corbyn and retake control65:01of the party even if it meant empowering65:04the tories and making boris johnson65:06prime minister because as you say65:09their top priority is ensuring that they65:11maintain65:12control of their party and secondary65:15or even more distantly is actually65:18winning elections65:19um and you know i think that you know65:22it’s like when people ask me why i go on65:23tucker carlson i65:24can barely even understand the question65:26because it’s such an obvious answer65:28which is65:29because there are four million people65:30watching and whatever percentage it is65:33that i can reach in any way not65:34necessarily change their minds instantly65:37but just kind of make them a little more65:38open65:39to hearing from different people maybe65:41get them kind of unsettled about65:44who they should be paying attention to65:46or introducing some ideas that maybe65:48maybe it’s ten percent maybe it’s five65:50percent maybe it’s fifteen percent65:52why would i ignore that if i actually65:54care about outcomes65:55to watch you know i i it kind of shocked65:58me edward snowden65:59uh appeared on rogan’s show for the66:02second time this week and so i went back66:03to look at what the audience was the66:05first time he appeared which is66:06about 10 months ago and even though66:09edward snowden being edward snowden kind66:11of spoke in like a monologue form for66:13about66:14three hours you know and he was66:16obviously remote because he couldn’t66:18go to the studio since he’s trapped in66:19russia the audience for that66:22appearance from edward snowden just on66:25youtube never mind all the other66:26platforms66:27was 15 million people 15 million66:31um which is you know four or five times66:34the size66:35of a primetime cable host even on their66:37best night66:38and obviously by virtue the fact that66:40you watch it that people66:42listen to it and can hear him say i66:44support tulsi or i support66:46bernie obviously there’s huge numbers of66:48those66:49that audience that are very reachable66:51from a liberal perspective66:53anybody who says i don’t want to have66:56anything to do66:57with a show that reaches 15 million66:59people67:00is somebody to me who’s saying67:04i look at politics as about everything67:06other than67:07winning wielding power and changing the67:10world67:11right right and they shrouded in moral67:13language right they shrouded67:15in how could you associate with someone67:17like that how could you you’ll be67:18tainted by someone like that67:20um they shrouded in those things but at67:22the end of the day it’s a much more67:24cynical calculation it’s67:25it’s put forth as some kind of moral67:28decr67:29declaration but it’s really a cynical67:31calculation67:32calculation in terms of controlling the67:33party in terms of controlling cultural67:36power centers67:37why would we want to upset that this is67:40a great setup67:41um and yeah that’s why you see 1567:43million people tuning in to edward67:45snowden because it completely cult67:47cuts across all of these cultural lines67:50i mean there aren’t67:51you know being interested in edward67:53snowden just his story and what he did67:55and the cultural and political impact he67:57had67:58that’s not a liberal or conservative68:00idea that’s68:01that’s reaching millions of people um68:03but that’s just not interesting to68:05um what informs the you know the the68:08careers and the lifestyles of the people68:10that68:11sort of hold these both the political68:13and cultural68:14levers of power in the country yeah so68:16yeah so thanks very much for68:18for taking the time i i think is a68:20really important topic not just68:22because it’s important to understand the68:24phenomenon of joe rogan although that68:25is important there are very few people68:28having the kind of cultural68:30and political impact that he’s having68:34um in a reaching a group of people who68:38often tune out politics or who aren’t68:40engaged in the traditional ways which68:42makes him68:44even more important than just the68:45numbers alone but i do think too68:47the reaction to him tells us a lot about68:50how media figures view their position68:52how liberals view what their political68:54project uh is and so68:56um i i think your your analysis on69:00twitter and the discussion that we just69:02had69:02um has really clarified those issues in69:05in a really helpful way so thank you so69:07much for69:08taking the time to talk to me um and i69:10hope people will tune into your69:13back channel youtube program where69:14you’re doing a lot of these kind of69:15header docs69:17uh discussions with people across a wide69:20range of69:21ideological and cultural uh belief69:24systems so69:24thanks very much sean yeah thank you so69:27much i enjoyed it69:36you