03:48
understanding the entrepreneurial
journey is not for everybody but for
those that are pursuing it they’re
extremely interested you practice a kind
of former you embody a form of
capitalism and entrepreneurship with
without romance you say you know what
are the numbers you’re dead to me
you know I want money where does that
come from I’m a little right-wing of
Attila the Hun and I believe that
business the DNA of a business is to
provide to its
constituents clearly customers come
number one number two employees
somewhere in there are the shareholders
and lastly you who started it you’re the
last but when you try and shift a
business’s true purpose and say that
it’s going to save society you will fail
not some of the time 100% of the time
saving baby whales is not what
businesses do and now as people trying
to contort them to do that they will
find out and we have this debate I teach
a lot of graduating cohorts of engineers
and business students and this is the
primary debate we have is when you go
out into the world if you think your job
is to solve all of society’s problems
you will get fired unless you start
delivering value to customers and
shareholders and employees the rest of
the world that’s not your problem your
problem is taking care of your business
we’re speaking at Freedom Fest in Las
Vegas an annual convention you’re here
to debate John Mackey with it looking
CEO and yeah of holder he talks about
conscious capitalism and and the model
he puts for it he’s very successful as
well what what’s wrong with that idea of
conscious capitalism where he seems to
talk and and now that I actually the way
you’re talking man he talks about
multiple stakeholders but he also says
you know profit comes first because
without profit there’s nothing but
what’s wrong with a kind of fuzzier form
of capitalism in fact if you read
Mackey’s principles the four pillars
that he espouses much of what he’s
talking about our important management
skills and I agree with him on that
where he gets lost and well we’ll have
the core of our debate today is in the
greater purpose because think about this
problem you have a phenomenally
successful business that is global and
you’re you decide that you have a cause
that you want to be an environmentalist
or you want to save a certain part of
society or there’s some medical disease
you want to give to as a CEO why does
the constituency where headquarters
matter why doesn’t the customer base in
India or in China or if you are trying
to do something sustainable that may be
irrelevant to customers in Cambodia and
so that’s why it becomes really
difficult to pursue mandates that are
outside of the core principles of
growing profits and the
or you take shareholders from capital
and redeploy it away from their pockets
the higher your cost of capital is going
to be because shareholders and I’m an
investor I covet managers that deliver
me high returns with low risk that’s
what the whole core of capitalism is and
when you try and say it’s something else
not only is it dangerous
but you’re 100% wrong that’s not how it
works we have 200 years of proof that
that’s how it doesn’t work are you are
you anti philanthropy or it’s so it’s
more that you make your money in
business and then when you have your
causes or your wealth you can help with
that let me give you an example let’s
say I can invest in two financial
services companies and one of them
decides the CEO decides that he wants to
support a charity and he wants to give
100 million dollars to that charity
across four quarters now it’s not my
charity my family supports multiple
charities but none of the ones that I
support he is supporting my message to
him or her is you deliver me my profits
I will decide which charities I want to
support you have no right to do that on
my behalf I don’t agree with you I don’t
care what you like you should take your
portion of your salary or the stock you
own and the dividends you get and you
deploy it the way you want the core of
the business is to deliver profits to
the shareholders who then will redeploy
it in any way they wish and when you
lose that mandate when you when you
misunderstand that I’ll fire you if I’m
a shareholder that’s what I want to do
in preparing for this I’ve read a and
watched a bunch of energy’s with you you
are a big defender of capitalism what
what is the best defense of capitalism
as a economic and cultural system it
provides a standard of living for
society in a way that has never been
done before in the history of mankind
there was a time when the majority
people on earth were illiterate and they
were starving and capitalism changed all
of that and certainly John admits that
in his own writing sure and now we’re
trying to do capitals in 2.0 when
there’s nothing wrong with capitalism
1.0
volatility is inherent in a capitalist
society there are haves and have-nots
there’s those that are very good at
entrepreneurship and get end up with
more because they solve more problems
and some people have a problem with that
but the capitalism can’t fix that
there’s nothing you can do anytime you
attempt to redistribute wealth outside
of the bounds of the capitalistic
mandate countries like Canada are
flailing as a result of that socialism
doesn’t work we know that already
you could end up like Cuba but are you
are you then are you like Ebenezer
Scrooge and we’re you know are there no
poor houses when you say redistribute
what what’s the limit of do you believe
in a social safety net
I do actually I think it’s the role of
government to provide basic services I
look at all the different models I
travel the world I’m particularly fond
09:32
of what they do in Switzerland where
09:35
they basically have multiple tiers of
09:37
things like health care and and support
09:39
for those that are poor but what they do
09:42
is they’ll say ok if you’re a wealthy
09:44
Swiss citizen in the canton of Geneva
09:46
and vole and you want to get an MRI
09:48
because you want one tomorrow morning at
09:51
ten o’clock
09:51
you’re going to pay for it they’re gonna
09:53
take the proceeds of that and they’re
09:55
going to redeploy it into purchasing
09:57
more MRI machines so that the social
09:59
safety net for those that aren’t as
10:01
fortunate can get free MRIs I’m a big
10:03
advocate of that in Canada where they
10:06
try and make everybody equal a dog gets
10:10
an MRI first before a human it’s absurd
10:13
people wait months for hip replacements
10:15
for cataract surgery it’s a disaster if
10:18
you have had you have catastrophic
10:19
illness there yes you jump to the head
10:22
of the queue the only other way you can
10:24
get medical services to buy it in
10:26
basically an illicit scheme which I
10:29
think is outrageous so to me I’m a huge
10:32
advocate of social nets the British have
10:34
a good one the the Danish the Finnish
10:36
the Swiss the Germans have done well do
10:38
you think the American social safety net
10:40
works it’s under stress right now
10:42
because it manifests itself in in
10:45
ever-increasing federal debt and so
10:48
there has to be a modification to the
10:51
health care system here
10:53
and there’s met there’s multiple ways
10:55
this can be achieved
10:56
I think digitization of medical records
10:59
in a true form will help a lot I think
11:01
it’ll be the focus of the next cycle
11:04
whoever ends up being president is gonna
11:06
have to deal with it it is not perfect
11:09
but not nothing’s perfect but as a
11:10
society and a market for entrepreneurs
11:12
there’s no place on earth like the
11:14
United States so capitalism is really
11:16
under attack right now and it’s from
11:17
from right-wing populists like you know
11:20
Tucker Carlson and Fox News who says oh
11:22
well it’s good at building new iPhones
11:24
and game consoles but really what what
11:27
purpose does that serve and then you
11:28
have people democratic social or Donald
11:30
Trump who is anti free trade he’s
11:33
anti-free speech which is a part of a
11:35
free economy then you have Alexandria
11:38
Kaiser Cortez and her social justice
11:40
squad that is attacking and are you
11:42
worried about capitalism survival no I’m
11:46
not inherent in capitalism is not only
11:50
volatility of asset prices but
11:52
volatility of political mandates and so
11:55
in an election cycle that is as visceral
11:58
and partisan as we have now I mean you
12:02
have a circus going on and it’s just the
12:06
nature of what Washington is turned into
12:08
by the way I think it’s a carnival freak
12:10
show not a circus is a circus sometimes
12:13
it’s fun well I I enjoy the rhetoric
12:16
it’s very entertaining it’s not mean
12:18
enough for you though I mr. wonderful I
12:21
want to bring back I was I’m a huge
12:24
history buff and I really enjoyed
12:26
history throughout my entire education
12:28
and I had a great history teacher when I
12:32
was very young in high school and she
12:35
taught me something very very important
that I’ve never forgot in my in my
career and I’ll give it to you here
great politicians great leaders great
CEOs are phenomenal entertainers going
back to the days of Alexander the Great
Napoleon Bismarck they used to hold
counsel at night have big dinner parties
or sit around the fire with their camp
with their with their men and tell
stories
they would tell stories of great defeats
great battles great loves and that would
spread through the troops you know the
leader told us about this this maneuver
in the Nile yesterday and it would
capture the hearts and minds of the
people
Donald Trump is exactly that he is a
great entertainer he smoked the
competition by eating 101 percent of the
airtime in the last election unfortunate
13:36
for Hillary she was boring on television
13:38
and like Obama was it was a different
13:42
time she didn’t see that it was time to
13:44
be entertaining the best ever
13:47
coverage she got was the debates with
13:49
Trump where it was so mesmerizing I
13:52
actually watched that instead of
13:53
football I remember sitting with a bunch
13:56
of guys golfing and we turned that on
13:58
instead of a football game and I said
13:59
wow he’s Alexander the Great
14:03
what do you but you’re also you you’re
14:05
critical of Trump in various ways and
14:07
what do you tell her great entertainer
14:10
and that allowed him to become the
14:11
leader of America and maybe the free
14:13
world if we still talk about things in
14:15
those terms but you you know looking at
14:17
you you had thought about running to be
14:20
the head of the Conservative Party in
14:21
Canada you’re um one of the things you
14:24
were talking about and obviously you’re
14:26
off Canada now you don’t like it as much
14:27
well that’s not true well yeah okay but
14:30
you you know you’re in favor of more
14:33
immigration you are in favor of gay
14:36
rights and trans rights and legal weed
14:38
you are non interventionist generally in
14:42
foreign policy what do you think of
14:44
Trump substantively you know you have to
14:47
differentiate and my take on Trump and
14:51
his his cabinet is I don’t watch the
14:56
circus or the freakshow whatever you
14:57
want to call it I look at the policy I’m
15:01
a policy wonk
15:02
and I have this unique index I should
15:05
share with you I have interests in
15:07
almost you know it is over 50 it’s over
15:10
50 private companies now all practically
15:13
every state very few states who know I’m
15:15
interested in now
15:16
I get the monthly cash flows of every
15:18
one of these businesses because most of
15:20
my deal structures or royalties as you
15:22
know or venture debt or preference
15:23
shares or converts and I have lots of
15:26
companies around cash flow I have never
15:28
in my life seen an economy like this
15:31
this is even better than the 60s it is
15:34
phenomenal and I think primarily because
15:36
of deregulation not tax reform my
15:40
companies in California in Texas in
15:42
Florida in Illinois in in the municipal
15:45
level and the state level have been set
15:48
free what is the nature of that
15:50
deregulation give me an example give an
15:52
example in California had a deal that
15:53
converted strip malls
15:55
you know retail space it failed 12 min
15:58
square feet and turned it into a place
16:02
where you could paint and drink wine and
16:04
very successful business called wine and
16:07
design you’ve got a painting lesson you
16:09
sip wine with your friends you enjoy
16:11
yourself for four hours you do a
16:13
painting the regulations to actually
16:16
allow people to do that included such
16:19
absurd regulations for example a frosted
16:22
glass window had to be within 21 feet of
16:25
a back door that did not have frosted
16:27
glass but had bars across it and all
16:30
kinds of absurd regulations have been on
16:32
the books since the 50s well Trump swept
16:34
all that garbage away how did he do that
16:36
where they he basically anything that
16:38
has a federal mandate he just ripped it
16:40
up and some of these regulations were
16:42
federally mandated and others were
16:44
stripped away by states watching
16:46
businesses leave and saying wait a
16:48
minute if they’re deregulating that for
16:49
Texas federally I’m going to do that in
16:50
the state basis all of a sudden I can
16:52
open up stores all across California
16:54
where I never could just like that and
16:56
so this has been a really interesting
16:59
time over the last thirty six months and
17:02
I see no slowdown I just saw last
17:05
month’s numbers Wow
17:07
I mean I’m just so now you’re making me
17:09
think it’s the fall of 1929 I don’t know
17:12
it’s like no I think I can only keep
17:14
going up I’m very optimistic about the
17:17
domestic economy we could have trade war
17:19
issues with the sp500 because 46 percent
17:22
of their sales are international but
17:24
I’ll tell you this about Trump here’s my
17:27
assumption the chance he doesn’t get a
17:29
second
17:30
my view is zero and I’ll tell you why I
17:32
don’t recall in modern times when going
17:36
into a second term at full employment
17:38
the incumbent of any party has ever lost
17:41
their mandate ever how important to you
17:44
and I want to come to Canada in a second
17:46
but as in a leader like trumpet but
17:48
entertaining etc but then the rhetoric
17:51
is not just bilious I mean it’s racist
17:54
it’s extremely divisive and of course
17:57
you know people on the other side are
17:58
giving him the same does that kind of
18:00
stuff trouble you at all or is that just
18:02
a kind of epiphenomena that doesn’t
18:04
matter you know I met Trump because we
18:06
both worked for Mark Burnett and he was
18:08
on the apprentice we were just starting
18:10
shark tank we used to meet up when we
18:12
were selling the forwards in New York
18:14
he’s an advertising for the network’s in
18:17
many ways his his style is to 50% of the
18:22
population his style is difficult he I
18:26
don’t believe he’s a racist man I don’t
18:28
think I don’t believe that at all I
18:29
don’t think he’s a sexist man I don’t
18:31
believe that at all even though it’s
18:32
interpreted I think he’s a family man
18:36
but people don’t get that all he’s had
18:38
several families he he’s a and that’s
18:45
not gonna change is my point
18:47
this won’t get better for people who
18:48
don’t like him I ignore all that stuff
18:51
and you know I get in in my in my family
18:54
the night that he got elected I told we
18:58
were all sitting around it was you know
18:59
culmination of all that entertainment on
19:01
me of the election cycle and my daughter
19:04
wept and I said Savannah this is a
19:07
really good thing that just happened you
19:09
just don’t know it yet
19:10
she said how can that man be elected how
19:12
can you know it was a very divisive
19:14
moment in my family so we have in my own
19:17
family people that are dining
19:19
discussions that you know Sunday night
19:21
dinners are about politics I love
19:22
politics and I keep trying to sell them
19:25
on the merits of his policy and I
19:28
realize it’s never gonna change their
19:29
opinions America is like that too like
19:31
my family is just like the average
19:33
American family
19:34
so with younger people in particular
19:36
there’s a ton of polls out there showing
19:38
you know that Millennials are people
19:40
under 40 Americans under 40 have a
19:42
positive view of social
19:43
some in some polls a more positive view
19:46
of socialism than capitalism how do you
19:49
change that because you know they are
19:51
gettin there’s already more Millennials
19:54
than baby boomers though they’re gonna
19:55
be voting at some point where are they
19:57
wrong and how do you reach them not you
20:01
know to convert them to capitalism I was
20:03
a socialist when I was 18 years old – I
20:05
was left-wing I tell I got my first
20:07
paycheck and I saw something called tax
20:10
on it
20:11
everybody’s a socialist when they’re
20:13
young until they start working and they
20:16
start realizing how tough it is out
20:18
there and they start realizing how much
20:19
money government wastes when they take
20:21
half their income in taxes and that’s
20:23
when you become a conservative the older
20:25
you get the more realistic you become
20:27
and a majority of those people make the
20:29
transition in their mid-20s that’s what
20:31
happens I never worry about you my job
20:34
today is to teach young people about the
20:37
entrepreneurial journey to make sure
20:38
that those that can’t handle it don’t
20:40
try it I tell people this is what it’s
20:43
like I’m gonna give I’m gonna do a
20:45
two-hour lecture I’m gonna walk you
20:46
through what your life is gonna be like
20:47
if you pursue this and maybe some of you
20:49
should be great employees because not
20:52
everybody in this room is gonna make it
20:53
as an entrepreneur it’s that way about
20:56
life and I think the natural cycle is
20:59
the worlds that come by our place when
21:00
your parents are paying for everything
21:01
for you and then you get out of the
21:03
house and you’re on your own and you go
21:05
wow it’s tough out here I read an
21:07
interesting story about your childhood
21:10
and about your mother you’re of Lebanese
21:12
and Irish descent and when your mother
21:16
died you found out that she had been
21:17
investing yeah what was the lesson that
21:21
you know that you learned from that and
21:22
you know should everybody kind of adapt
21:25
that or at least take it seriously the
21:26
lesson I learned was that she she had a
21:29
fierce desire for financial independence
21:32
she had been married twice and she
21:34
didn’t want a man to rule her life
21:36
financially ever and she was a very
21:38
shrewd investor she had a portfolio of
21:40
23 large cap dividend paying stocks and
21:43
telco bonds and over a 50-year period
21:47
that portfolio beat every single manager
21:50
I’d ever hired she just believed in
21:52
owning securities that return capital
21:54
shareholders and she would only spend
21:56
the
21:56
interest and dividends and never the
21:57
principal and the principal over that 50
21:59
year period appreciated wildly and you
22:03
know what what it taught me was to focus
22:09
here’s how it manifests itself in my
22:11
life today
22:11
not some of my returns 95% of them in
22:15
this 11 year 14 year journey on Dragon’s
22:18
Den and Shark Tank have come from
22:20
companies run by women they are very
22:22
very good at mitigating risk and my
22:24
mother was like that so now I’m almost
22:26
sexist in the sense that even the
22:29
producers have to say to me you gotta
22:31
invest in some guys I said why
22:32
they don’t make any money these women
22:34
made me all this money look at all these
22:36
deals I’ve made so much money and why
22:39
should I take risks with men who can’t
22:40
dope who have testosterone sales targets
22:43
they never had and all the rest of that
22:44
stuff so I’m very biased about people
22:48
that understand financial independence
22:49
that’s women mitigate risk that’s women
22:52
know how to manage time that’s women set
22:54
reasonable goals have very sticky
22:57
cultures in their business that’s all
22:58
women so I’m telling my guys now every
23:00
year we do a big conference in South
23:02
Beach I bring all my companies together
23:03
50 60 70 people in that room and I say
23:07
this is what these women did this year
23:09
and this is what you guys did now why
23:11
don’t you exchange ideas here because I
23:13
want all of you to succeed I’m aligned
23:16
with you I’ve risk capital with you go
23:18
figure out what they’re doing you at
23:20
times and flirted with what I would
23:23
consider Canadian exceptionalism that
23:25
Canada was a great country and that it
23:26
was doing a lot of things rights you
23:28
know according to various kinds of
23:30
indexes of economic freedom Canada is in
23:33
many ways more free than the United
23:34
States but you’re really off Canada you
23:37
you pulled all your money out of Canada
23:39
you’ve left I mean you’re I guess you’re
23:41
are you still a Canadian citizen or both
23:43
Irish and Canadian okay and so what
23:45
happened was in the last election I’m
23:49
always willing to give a politician a
23:53
chance regardless of where they came
23:55
from or how they got their mandate and
23:58
in Canada they have the parliamentary
23:59
system and so when the current prime
24:01
minister was elected I’m like everybody
24:05
else and I wished him the best of luck
24:06
and hope that when you saw him wearing
24:08
that horrible neighbors
24:10
or whatever and well his mandate has
24:12
been an unmitigated disaster and not
24:14
only because of his lack of managerial
24:17
skills but he put in place in a
24:20
parliamentary system the mandates of
24:22
Foreign Affairs or infrastructure
24:24
spending or military procurement or
24:26
finance are really important because
24:28
there are little mini Prime Minister’s
24:29
the men and women that get those jobs
24:31
and he brought in a covenant he was a
24:33
very interested in in in providing a
24:37
broad diverse but never put competency
24:40
in any of his metrics of measuring who
24:42
should get these jobs for example he put
24:44
in place a journalist in the role of
24:46
Foreign Affairs what’s happened never in
24:50
Canada’s history have we upset so many
24:53
partners Saudi Arabia Japan Russia China
24:57
United States all our prime trading
25:00
partners in the last few months and I’ll
25:03
give you an example and why I was so
25:05
happy to have taken my money out when
25:06
they started to realize he can’t manage
25:08
anything the worst countries who have
25:11
invested in in the last four years has
25:12
been Canada of the g7 a disaster
25:15
you will anywhere else would have been
25:16
better including Europe the Canadian
25:19
dollars collapsed it’s gone down for
25:21
parity down to 73 cents so you’ve lost
25:23
you twenty four percent right there but
25:25
let me give you an example that because
25:27
it brings together the idea of
25:28
understanding negotiating tactics and
25:31
managerial skill when Trump decided to
25:34
ramp up the trade war with China when he
25:37
really wanted to slap on that second set
25:39
of tariffs he was I’m speculating here
25:42
but I think I’m right he was really
25:43
worried that all of a sudden the Chinese
25:45
would cut off trade in agriculture trade
25:48
and resources trade and energy trade in
25:51
wood where would they all go up to
25:53
Canada that would have been a huge win
25:55
for Canada what does he do he realizes
25:58
he calls up the finance minister in
26:00
Canada says the huawei CFO the daughter
26:03
of the founder he’s going to be in
26:05
Vancouver for 32 minutes transferring to
26:08
Mexico City arrest her
26:11
he totally played Trudeau in the end the
26:14
Foreign Affairs Minister like a fiddle
26:16
and screwed the country when the Chinese
26:19
heard that happened within hours they
26:22
cut off ties with Canada
26:23
honing threatening to kill two Canadians
26:26
that are prison over there
26:27
no pork sales anymore no energy no coal
26:31
no nickel no steel no wheat nothing
26:34
going out of Canada to China
26:36
what a brilliant move except if you’re a
26:39
Canadian citizen or an investor are
26:41
Canadian you know taxpayer you realize
26:44
you just got snookered by a really smart
26:46
guy and a really incompetent finance
26:49
minister it’s not her fault she’s a
26:51
journalist she never she was never a
26:53
diplomat the poor woman I feel sorry for
26:56
her she’ll be gone in a few weeks that’s
26:59
what I did you mentioned before that
27:01
capitalism is volatile one of the risks
27:05
and this is the economist like Joseph
27:07
Schumpeter would talk about this this is
27:08
the whole idea of capitalism is built on
27:10
creative destruction and there’s you
27:13
know industries rise and fall with an
27:14
individual’s lifetime individual
27:17
lifetimes and why not that creates a lot
27:19
of anxiety and a lot of social
27:20
instability people worry you know I’m
27:22
working here in this business it might
27:25
not be around in five years or this
27:26
whole sector might not be do you worry
27:29
about that or what are the ways that
27:31
capitalism and capitalist societies
27:33
free-market societies can mitigate that
27:36
kind of dislocation so that you don’t
27:38
get calls from Democratic socialists to
27:40
say we need Medicare for all we need
27:42
universal basic income we need a social
27:45
safety blanket that covers everything
27:47
and smothers entrepreneurship the best
27:50
way to dissipate fear is study history
27:54
this is why I do it to this day I keep I
27:57
keep going farther back and back with
27:59
the writings of great leaders from the
28:01
past and if you look at history in as
28:04
capitalism over the last 200 years has
28:07
destroyed many industries and reborn
28:08
others 40 years ago you couldn’t have
28:12
ever dreamt that someone who sat in
28:13
front of a screen and wrote code would
28:16
make half a million dollars a year in
28:18
their first job that didn’t exist today
28:21
it’s engineering it’s it’s probably the
28:24
best job you can get and in 40 years
28:27
from now or 20 years or 10 years they’ll
28:28
you know talking about robots replacing
28:31
pizza makers or cooks and all that
28:34
I hope it happens because there’ll be a
28:36
new sector that emerges as a results of
28:39
this men will never and women will never
28:42
be replaced by machines because they’ll
28:44
always be finding new purpose in new
28:46
problems being solved and I trust in
28:49
destructive capitalism to do that I
28:51
don’t fear any innovation at all
28:53
I fear regulation I fear burdensome
28:57
government I fear that a third of every
28:59
dollar raised by government through
29:01
taxes is wasted in every capital society
29:03
Canada it’s 50 cents on every dollar
29:05
United States is about 33 the less money
29:08
you give government the better your ad
29:10
gets there’s new cancer therapies that
29:14
starve tumors very effective and very
29:18
interesting research going on they’re
29:20
starving government of funds would be a
29:22
good thing
29:23
so you mentioned before that in America
29:26
you know it’s that the system isn’t
29:29
where the social safety net isn’t
29:30
working that well but it doesn’t stop
29:32
the government from just spending more
29:35
money and borrowing more money we’re 22
29:37
trillion dollars in debt why is the debt
29:40
a negative why is the debt a problem and
29:42
how do we how do we reduce the debt or
29:44
so you know because we’ve been starving
29:46
the beast in America for my entire
29:49
lifetime but the the Beast this seems to
29:52
have a credit card that never gets cut
29:53
off well as a percentage of GDP the debt
29:56
has been manageable and also we’re
29:59
moving to a world of zero interest rates
30:02
which we already have in Europe then you
30:05
think that’s no idea around I mean like
30:07
yeah why why we haven’t any pressure in
30:09
the last 10 years that’s been a straight
30:10
decline of the tenure cost of money the
30:15
reason that we may get out of this mess
30:18
is that through innovation and
30:21
entrepreneurs and technology and a
30:23
really robust economy we keep getting
30:27
more productivity we keep inventing
30:30
things like the internet and the cloud
30:32
services that make productivity continue
30:36
to perform we keep getting better at
30:39
what we do and as a result the economy
30:41
continues to grow in terms of its total
30:43
size and GDP you know or debt to GDP
30:47
remains constant even though the absent
30:50
debts going up so I can take and you can
30:52
take a little bit of solace in that now
30:54
do I like the fact that government
30:55
wastes a third of every dollar and
30:58
that’s my number we can debate it till
31:00
the cows come home no I don’t and and so
31:02
I’m into this mode of saying how do you
31:05
starve government of money because that
31:07
is an interesting idea basically the
31:09
money’s not going to worth staying in
31:10
the economy people are reinvesting in
31:13
creating jobs which is way better than
31:14
what government does all the stupid
31:16
things they waste money on because they
31:18
have no accountability and I think in
31:21
the next 10 years 15 20 years we’re
31:24
gonna solve for that in Switzerland it’s
31:27
illegal to have debt in your Kent on you
31:31
go to jail for that they solved the
31:33
decades ago Swiss don’t run deficits
31:36
they don’t provide services they can’t
31:37
afford and every time they want to
31:39
provide a new service they actually do a
31:40
vote of the entire country and ask for
31:42
it
31:42
8.2 million people it’s profoundly
31:46
efficient we could learn from them do
31:48
you worry at all about the authoritarian
31:50
capitalist model that uh you know a
31:52
number of people in the in the 70 or I
31:54
guess in the 80s people were talking
31:56
about how Japan had figured out how to
31:58
manage capitalism in a way you know
32:00
growth with that end that ended poorly
32:03
for Japan not so much for the US China
32:05
now is seen as a model you know and they
32:08
figured it out and it’s an authoritarian
32:10
capitalism do you think China can
32:12
continue to lock down or try to try and
32:15
screw down more and more parts of the
32:16
economy or is that kind of doomed to
32:19
failure over the long run if it remains
32:21
in its constant model it’ll look good
32:23
it’s doomed to fail if you’re you know
32:26
leader for life over there which she’s
32:28
hoping is you need to morph yourself
32:33
into a global participant that plays by
32:36
the rules I do a lot of business in
32:37
China
32:38
through manufacturing there most of my
32:40
companies we’ve moved a lot to Vietnam
32:42
in the last three years not because of
32:44
trade wars because Vietnam became a lot
32:47
cheaper not some cheaper 30% cheaper so
32:50
we’ve moved quite a few there and that’s
32:51
been happening for years now but China
32:54
wants to play with the big boys and in
32:57
order to do that two things are going to
32:59
have to happen it’s going to be painful
33:00
for them to get
33:01
there but I need the ability to protect
33:03
my IP in the legal system there because
33:06
I need to be able to litigate when when
33:08
my IP has been stolen I need an easy
33:11
path to stop it as we have here Chinese
33:13
investors have come here use our legal
33:15
system to raise capital they and stop
33:18
you know IP loss we need the same and
33:20
the other one and this is why the market
33:23
doesn’t correct even as Trump raises the
33:25
heat on China the middle class there is
33:29
like investing in America in 1930 it’s
33:33
going to be phenomenal do business with
33:35
with middle-class Chinese people I have
33:38
so much stuff to sell them I can’t wait
33:40
until this thing gets resolved because
33:42
it is going to take US companies to the
33:46
next level there’s so much they want
33:48
from us from entertainment media and
33:50
content right through all the technology
33:52
we have once it’s protectable we’ll be
33:55
selling it to them that coexistence is
33:57
going to be very powerful up leg and
33:59
save China it’s going to save China it’s
34:02
going to make it a not an emerging
34:04
economy anymore it’s going to make it a
34:06
mega powerhouse and I believe in the
34:07
next 20 years
34:08
it will outpace the American GDP but
34:11
only if it opens up and becomes more
34:14
transient it will it will because they
34:17
actually can’t afford what’s happening
34:19
there now there’s they’re really
34:21
starting to suffer particularly as
34:23
companies say I don’t want to go through
34:25
all that headache of tariffs I’m just
34:27
going to delay my capital expenditure of
34:28
China so the government has to do it all
34:30
that’s a very dangerous I’d say they’re
34:32
gonna come to the table in the next two
34:34
years we’re gonna leave it there thank
34:35
you so much thank you and we’ll enjoy
34:37
we’ve been talking with Kevin O’Leary of
34:39
shark tank this has been reason TV I’ve
34:41
been Nick Gillespie
34:42
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